Manual Locking Hubs

jreidg3 · 09-27-2005, 09:38 AM

Ok, So after 3 days of reading through the forums I am looking to have some information verified. My question is if I install a set of manual locking hubs and have them dis engaged what would happen if the 4wd was for some reason engaged inside the cabin? Also is there any problem with leaving the manual hubs locked all winter while changing the truck in and out of 4wd from the cabin? I ask because my wife will be driving the truck and I want to make sure she does not have to get out of the truck in a snow storm and turn the manual locking hubs to get it into 4wd. I would really just like to leave it engaged all the time while she has the truck and tell her it is ok to switch from 2wd to 4wd if she needs to. In the Spring Summer Fall I would keep them unlocked as I will spend most of my time in 2WD and hopefully that shoudl save some wear and tear on the front end right?

I ask because I am looking into buying a 95 4runner with 120k for around $3900 this week. It is a 4x4 and has the rear end sag. If I buy it am going to do the HD coils in rear to raise it back up and crank the torsion bars to even it out. And while im at it I would do the manual hub switch if the above info is true.

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hektikwon · 09-27-2005, 09:47 AM

Go to manual. Less stress on CVs. People have left them locked for the winter with no prob. I might do the same. If the 4wd engages with them unlocked, nothing will happen but your front diff and axle shafts turning, no power to wheels. I did this swap and it's cheap and easy as pie.

**Tofer** · 09-27-2005, 09:52 AM

i am getting manual hubs this week... yes you can run it UNLOCKED in 4wd, it give you a "fake" 2LO setting (4LO unlocked). and i am pretty sure you wont have a problem leaving them LOCKED all winter, right now with the ADD system, they are bascily locked all the time.

jreidg3 · 09-27-2005, 10:57 AM

Excellent. Thanks for the confirmation. Now I just need to go out and buy that 4runner.

dlbrunner · 09-27-2005, 11:08 AM

I just did the conversion, running "locked" is just like running stock with the factory ADD flanges....

Get a brass punch set at harbor freight for 10$
Get PB blaster
Gaskets are 6$ @ dealer both sides inner and outer
Tourque spec on the dial bolts 9ft/lbs the bodies are aluminum so be careful not to strip.
I used an old wood chisel (sharp) to separate the brass cap from the hub flange to get at the axle bolt under it.

BOSTON4RUNNER · 09-27-2005, 01:30 PM

so how much would the whole shooting match cost me for my 1997 3.4 5 speed ADD 4 runner?

I might go with manual hubs, then go with a lunchbox locker in the front

**Tofer** · 09-27-2005, 01:31 PM

3rd gen 4runners are harder to swap in manual locking hubs. i am not sure what all is involved i just know its a much bigger of a PITA then 2nd gens.

BOSTON4RUNNER · 09-27-2005, 01:32 PM

just read up on it 500-1000 a grand and alot of work

oh well

garrett1478 · 09-27-2005, 01:33 PM

for a 3rd gen, it'll cost around 300-400 dollars for parts and labor, its no where near as easy as it is for 2nd gens.

cheapest way to do it - http://www.sonoransteel.com/junk_yard_manual_hubs.html

Flamedx4 · 09-27-2005, 03:10 PM

And also if you live where its snowy or icy in winter and have to use 4wd on the road - you will regret having a front locker. Makes it really squirrely to drive...

javadoody · 09-27-2005, 04:01 PM

the only real issue you'll have is one of gas mileage. big time drop.

garrett1478 · 09-27-2005, 04:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by javadoody

the only real issue you'll have is one of gas mileage. big time drop.

really...? i've read that some people don't notice a difference in mileage at all.....

hektikwon · 09-27-2005, 06:07 PM

I never checked my mileage after I swapped but then again I never ran it locked on the road. But it seem to run better with the axles not spinning on the freeway.

Flamedx4 · 09-28-2005, 09:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by garrett1478

really...? i've read that some people don't notice a difference in mileage at all.....

Made no difference whatsover for me on mileage. It feels only slightly different, not enough that I could swear it's not just my imagination.

**Tofer** · 09-28-2005, 11:02 AM

ditto.. i ran it with no CVs for a while and saw no change in mileage

the front end felt *slightly* different but again it just could be my imagination

Robinhood150 · 09-28-2005, 11:31 AM

Shifting into 4wd while the hubs are unlocked and you are moving isn't a good idea. The Cvs, diff and driveshaft are not moving but the transmission and transfer case are. Suddenly shifting into 4wd would cause unpleasantness.

javadoody · 09-28-2005, 07:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Flamedx4

Made no difference whatsover for me on mileage. It feels only slightly different, not enough that I could swear it's not just my imagination.

is the runner he's buying a 6? my 22re sure notices the difference, albeit primarily during highway driving going up, and down, the mountain during the winter months.

lorentje · 10-27-2005, 01:06 PM

sorry to come in late, i did a run with some other yotatech members last weekend and the conclusion was that my 4x4 was not engaging. my mechanic called and suggested i switch to manual locking instead of the auto to save some money. is there an advantage or disadvantage to the manual? besides actual 4wheeling adventures, i would use it on road up at mount hood in the snow this winter. what part of the manual locking hub makes road driving sketchy?

mytruck · 10-27-2005, 01:17 PM

Manual hubs are a nice swap mostly because you can run them unlocked for all the highway miles. Less wear and tear on the CV boots and drive train (I haven't had to change CV boots since I went to manual hubs on my '89). Maybe you will see a small boost in gas mileage..maybe not.
I do not think your 4wheel drive problem has anything to do with your hubs.
Most likely it is either the electrical switch or vacuum line.
I would suggest having a experienced Toyota mechanic check it out.
I have had the 4-wheel drive system fail on my '89 truck two times.
First time, the vacuum line came loose.
Second time, the electrical switch needed to be replaced.
Good luck...let us know what you find out!

Jim

Flamedx4 · 10-27-2005, 01:18 PM

Huge advantage to manual hubs - they don't break! If yours are really the originals from 88 then you must have the last set still in existence...

You can leave em locked when driving in winter conditions and shift in and out of 4wd when needed.

Glenn · 10-27-2005, 03:13 PM

I don't really think the "saves your CVs" argument has a lot of merit unless there is a lift involved, changing the angles. There are millions of FWD cars going millions of miles on CVs with no real problems.

Robinhood150 · 10-27-2005, 03:41 PM

Yup, my original CV boots lasted 10 years with ADD flanges and no lift.

Plus, the older trucks had auto locking hubs and not ADD so the CV axles aren't moving anyway in 2wd.

mytruck · 10-27-2005, 04:15 PM

My '89 had ADD...not auto hubs.
Maybe it's a coincidence that my CV boots are lasting longer...who knows?
I just like being able to disengage my front drive train when I'm not using it, which is 99% of the time.
Anyway, Jen, there is no disdvantage to swapping in manual hubs, other than having to get out of your vehicle to engage them. You can do that in your driveway before your road trips to the mountains if you want, and then use the four-wheel drive lever inside your rig like you do now to switch in and out of 4whl drive as conditions warrant.

Jim

Hadmatt54 · 10-29-2005, 05:20 PM

Just my 2 cents worth on manual hubs. It stands to reason that if you are not turning the whole front drive train, fuel economy has to be better. Last year I did a SAS on my 86 and currently my son and I are putting a new frame under his 85, it was an 89 4 runner IFS. I know this isn't the classifieds so I won't go into detail, but if any of you thinking about changing your 2nd. gen. full time front ends to locking hubs. I've got 2 sets in good condition, that are taking up space.

bob200587 · 10-29-2005, 06:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BOSTON4RUNNER

so how much would the whole shooting match cost me for my 1997 3.4 5 speed ADD 4 runner?

I might go with manual hubs, then go with a lunchbox locker in the front

A lucnchbox locker even with manual hubs will tend to break more axles, I've seen it alot. My hubs cost 65 for both from a guy at the 4x4 shop. I put em on myself, Don't know how hard it is on a 3rd gen....I assume the same aisians still fit on 3rd gen.

09-27-2005, 09:47 AM	#2 (permalink)
hektikwon Registered User Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: NE GA (Between blizzads & hurricanes) Posts: 462	Go to manual. Less stress on CVs. People have left them locked for the winter with no prob. I might do the same. If the 4wd engages with them unlocked, nothing will happen but your front diff and axle shafts turning, no power to wheels. I did this swap and it's cheap and easy as pie. __________________ 91 4x4 4runna 3.4 , auto to manual tranny conversion, 2" body lift, Aisin manual hub conversion, vinyl flooring, 2nd gen inclinometer, 2.5 Magnalow cat & muffler, Trail Gear Sliders, Bilstein Shocks *Gone but not forgotten 96 4runna Limited e-locked, KC Fogs, 265/70/16 Hankook Dynapro ATm's

09-27-2005, 09:52 AM	#3 (permalink)
Tofer Super Moderator Staff Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Tacoma WA. Posts: 6,905	i am getting manual hubs this week... yes you can run it UNLOCKED in 4wd, it give you a "fake" 2LO setting (4LO unlocked). and i am pretty sure you wont have a problem leaving them LOCKED all winter, right now with the ADD system, they are bascily locked all the time. __________________ 94 4runenr: all the good stuff....... 89 4runner: 3.0, Auto, 5.29 lockright f/r. 31x10.5 wildcountry ATs. 81 2wd pickup: 22R \| 5-sp \| long bed \|Civic SI seats \| LockRight \| Hella 500s pacific-crawlers.com For all your Trail-gear and HID lighting Solutions Needs check out yotaworks.com Online store coming soon :)

09-27-2005, 11:08 AM	#5 (permalink)
dlbrunner Contributing Member Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: phoenix Posts: 1,141	I just did the conversion, running "locked" is just like running stock with the factory ADD flanges.... Get a brass punch set at harbor freight for 10$ Get PB blaster Gaskets are 6$ @ dealer both sides inner and outer Tourque spec on the dial bolts 9ft/lbs the bodies are aluminum so be careful not to strip. I used an old wood chisel (sharp) to separate the brass cap from the hub flange to get at the axle bolt under it. __________________ Duncan -------------------------------------------------- Current: 95 4X4 SR5 V6, Yakima tracks/rack installed. Aisin hubs. Sonoran Steel IFS Truss. Cobra CB(finally!) Desired: 66 FJ45 shorty EX's: 89 4X4 V6 Downey'd 72 FJ40 W 350/SM465 powertrax, "Billy"

09-27-2005, 01:30 PM	#6 (permalink)
BOSTON4RUNNER Registered User Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 789	so how much would the whole shooting match cost me for my 1997 3.4 5 speed ADD 4 runner? I might go with manual hubs, then go with a lunchbox locker in the front __________________ 305k MILES! 97 4Runner Khumo Road Venture MT's 285 75 16's LC wheels,Desert Dune,moonroof,safari rack,kc daylighters,3.4 Ltr. 5 spd,410s detroit ez locker, OME 891's, KYB shocks3 - 3.25 lift, Tokico,Taco springs,3 in lift in front Rev Tek spacers/top out 4Crawler diff drop, 1 in BL, 4 Runner altimeter, 2.5 in Flowmaster,high flow cat, mandrel steel air intake conical K & N. MSD DIS4,CB with 7 channel wave/weather report,4 foot firestick,Pioneer CD,30 gig IPOD. www.sfaboston.com

09-27-2005, 01:31 PM	#7 (permalink)
Tofer Super Moderator Staff Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Tacoma WA. Posts: 6,905	3rd gen 4runners are harder to swap in manual locking hubs. i am not sure what all is involved i just know its a much bigger of a PITA then 2nd gens. __________________ 94 4runenr: all the good stuff....... 89 4runner: 3.0, Auto, 5.29 lockright f/r. 31x10.5 wildcountry ATs. 81 2wd pickup: 22R \| 5-sp \| long bed \|Civic SI seats \| LockRight \| Hella 500s pacific-crawlers.com For all your Trail-gear and HID lighting Solutions Needs check out yotaworks.com Online store coming soon :)

09-27-2005, 10:57 AM	#4 (permalink)
jreidg3 Registered User Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Grand Island, NY Posts: 2	Excellent. Thanks for the confirmation. Now I just need to go out and buy that 4runner.

09-27-2005, 01:32 PM	#8 (permalink)
BOSTON4RUNNER Registered User Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 789	just read up on it 500-1000 a grand and alot of work oh well __________________ 305k MILES! 97 4Runner Khumo Road Venture MT's 285 75 16's LC wheels,Desert Dune,moonroof,safari rack,kc daylighters,3.4 Ltr. 5 spd,410s detroit ez locker, OME 891's, KYB shocks3 - 3.25 lift, Tokico,Taco springs,3 in lift in front Rev Tek spacers/top out 4Crawler diff drop, 1 in BL, 4 Runner altimeter, 2.5 in Flowmaster,high flow cat, mandrel steel air intake conical K & N. MSD DIS4,CB with 7 channel wave/weather report,4 foot firestick,Pioneer CD,30 gig IPOD. www.sfaboston.com

09-27-2005, 01:33 PM	#9 (permalink)
garrett1478 Banned Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 0	for a 3rd gen, it'll cost around 300-400 dollars for parts and labor, its no where near as easy as it is for 2nd gens. cheapest way to do it - http://www.sonoransteel.com/junk_yard_manual_hubs.html

09-27-2005, 03:10 PM	#10 (permalink)
Flamedx4 Registered User Join Date: May 2004 Location: 100 miles offshore as much as possible, & Springfield Oregon USA Posts: 3,285	And also if you live where its snowy or icy in winter and have to use 4wd on the road - you will regret having a front locker. Makes it really squirrely to drive... __________________ All my Yotas are gone. Stuff to sell: http://www.yotatech.com/showthread.p...39#post1009839 -Phil

09-27-2005, 04:01 PM	#11 (permalink)
javadoody Registered User Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: colorado Posts: 329	the only real issue you'll have is one of gas mileage. big time drop. __________________ 2003 4x4 taco, 3.4L, 5sp, 4.33 w/ ARB, 3" revtek stolen--1994 4x4 p/u 22re "A computer lets you make more mistakes faster than any invention in human history--with the possible exceptions of handguns and tequila."--Mitch Ratliffe, "Technology Review"

09-27-2005, 06:07 PM	#13 (permalink)
hektikwon Registered User Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: NE GA (Between blizzads & hurricanes) Posts: 462	I never checked my mileage after I swapped but then again I never ran it locked on the road. But it seem to run better with the axles not spinning on the freeway. __________________ 91 4x4 4runna 3.4 , auto to manual tranny conversion, 2" body lift, Aisin manual hub conversion, vinyl flooring, 2nd gen inclinometer, 2.5 Magnalow cat & muffler, Trail Gear Sliders, Bilstein Shocks *Gone but not forgotten 96 4runna Limited e-locked, KC Fogs, 265/70/16 Hankook Dynapro ATm's

09-28-2005, 11:02 AM	#15 (permalink)
Tofer Super Moderator Staff Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Tacoma WA. Posts: 6,905	ditto.. i ran it with no CVs for a while and saw no change in mileage the front end felt slightly different but again it just could be my imagination __________________ 94 4runenr: all the good stuff....... 89 4runner: 3.0, Auto, 5.29 lockright f/r. 31x10.5 wildcountry ATs. 81 2wd pickup: 22R \| 5-sp \| long bed \|Civic SI seats \| LockRight \| Hella 500s pacific-crawlers.com For all your Trail-gear and HID lighting Solutions Needs check out yotaworks.com Online store coming soon :)

09-28-2005, 11:31 AM	#16 (permalink)
Robinhood150 Contributing Member Join Date: May 2002 Location: Wandering around Phoenix Posts: 6,043	Shifting into 4wd while the hubs are unlocked and you are moving isn't a good idea. The Cvs, diff and driveshaft are not moving but the transmission and transfer case are. Suddenly shifting into 4wd would cause unpleasantness. __________________ Steve. '93 4Runner V6 Auto 4x4 Robinhood's Lair. \|\| Gettin' Off 4wd Club member Lots for sale:5.29 ARB IFS third member... Click Sierra Club policy: [A reason to close trails] ...Physical soil damage, often readily visible, resulting in: a. Erosion, causing soil loss and damage to stream banks, streams, and fish habitat... Lesson...Stay on the TRAIL!

10-27-2005, 01:06 PM	#18 (permalink)
lorentje Registered User Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: portland, or Posts: 29	sorry to come in late, i did a run with some other yotatech members last weekend and the conclusion was that my 4x4 was not engaging. my mechanic called and suggested i switch to manual locking instead of the auto to save some money. is there an advantage or disadvantage to the manual? besides actual 4wheeling adventures, i would use it on road up at mount hood in the snow this winter. what part of the manual locking hub makes road driving sketchy? __________________ 88 4runner 135K // http://thesmallviking.com/4runner

10-27-2005, 01:17 PM	#19 (permalink)
mytruck Contributing Member Join Date: May 2002 Location: Auburn, WA Posts: 383	Hi Jen Manual hubs are a nice swap mostly because you can run them unlocked for all the highway miles. Less wear and tear on the CV boots and drive train (I haven't had to change CV boots since I went to manual hubs on my '89). Maybe you will see a small boost in gas mileage..maybe not. I do not think your 4wheel drive problem has anything to do with your hubs. Most likely it is either the electrical switch or vacuum line. I would suggest having a experienced Toyota mechanic check it out. I have had the 4-wheel drive system fail on my '89 truck two times. First time, the vacuum line came loose. Second time, the electrical switch needed to be replaced. Good luck...let us know what you find out! Jim __________________ '04 4X4 XTRA Cab SR5 V6 TRD Automatic..Sweet! '84 4X4 Standard Cab 22R 5-Speed Pickup..SA! 33X12.5 BFG-AT KO's4.88 YukonsBudbuilt CrossmemberOME SpringsBadland Bumpers, SlidersSky shock hoopsBilsteins**

10-27-2005, 01:18 PM	#20 (permalink)
Flamedx4 Registered User Join Date: May 2004 Location: 100 miles offshore as much as possible, & Springfield Oregon USA Posts: 3,285	Huge advantage to manual hubs - they don't break! If yours are really the originals from 88 then you must have the last set still in existence... You can leave em locked when driving in winter conditions and shift in and out of 4wd when needed. __________________ All my Yotas are gone. Stuff to sell: http://www.yotatech.com/showthread.p...39#post1009839 -Phil

10-27-2005, 03:13 PM	#21 (permalink)
Glenn Registered User Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: ELN Posts: 1,651	I don't really think the "saves your CVs" argument has a lot of merit unless there is a lift involved, changing the angles. There are millions of FWD cars going millions of miles on CVs with no real problems. __________________ -Glenn-

10-27-2005, 03:41 PM	#22 (permalink)
Robinhood150 Contributing Member Join Date: May 2002 Location: Wandering around Phoenix Posts: 6,043	Yup, my original CV boots lasted 10 years with ADD flanges and no lift. Plus, the older trucks had auto locking hubs and not ADD so the CV axles aren't moving anyway in 2wd. __________________ Steve. '93 4Runner V6 Auto 4x4 Robinhood's Lair. \|\| Gettin' Off 4wd Club member Lots for sale:5.29 ARB IFS third member... Click Sierra Club policy: [A reason to close trails] ...Physical soil damage, often readily visible, resulting in: a. Erosion, causing soil loss and damage to stream banks, streams, and fish habitat... Lesson...Stay on the TRAIL!

10-27-2005, 04:15 PM	#23 (permalink)
mytruck Contributing Member Join Date: May 2002 Location: Auburn, WA Posts: 383	My '89 had ADD...not auto hubs. Maybe it's a coincidence that my CV boots are lasting longer...who knows? I just like being able to disengage my front drive train when I'm not using it, which is 99% of the time. Anyway, Jen, there is no disdvantage to swapping in manual hubs, other than having to get out of your vehicle to engage them. You can do that in your driveway before your road trips to the mountains if you want, and then use the four-wheel drive lever inside your rig like you do now to switch in and out of 4whl drive as conditions warrant. Jim __________________ '04 4X4 XTRA Cab SR5 V6 TRD Automatic..Sweet! '84 4X4 Standard Cab 22R 5-Speed Pickup..SA! 33X12.5 BFG-AT KO's4.88 YukonsBudbuilt CrossmemberOME SpringsBadland Bumpers, SlidersSky shock hoopsBilsteins** Last edited by mytruck; 10-27-2005 at 04:16 PM.

10-29-2005, 05:20 PM	#24 (permalink)
Hadmatt54 Registered User Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: New Brunswick, Canada Posts: 23	Manual Hubs Just my 2 cents worth on manual hubs. It stands to reason that if you are not turning the whole front drive train, fuel economy has to be better. Last year I did a SAS on my 86 and currently my son and I are putting a new frame under his 85, it was an 89 4 runner IFS. I know this isn't the classifieds so I won't go into detail, but if any of you thinking about changing your 2nd. gen. full time front ends to locking hubs. I've got 2 sets in good condition, that are taking up space.

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