Memphis4X4

Well, I thought I had been through all of the starting problems that a 2nd Gen Runner could throw at a person, but now I am experiencing a new one. I got the truck back from the shop a week ago (after waiting 3 weeks) for them to fix my lack of power problem. After they replaced the fuel filter, adjusted TPS, checked for clogged exhaust, and checked for out-of-timing situation, they found that the truck wasn't starting out in 1st gear....exactly what I had been saying all along. Well, with that fixed by changing out 2 shift solenoids, the truck now doesn't want to start. When I turn the key, the starter turns over fast (contacts were replaced last year and an auxillary relay was installed) but the engine just doesn't feel like it is firing. It doesn't feel like the fuel system is trying to re-prime (had that problem when the injectors would leak down)....it actually feels like there's no fuel at all or no spark. Last night when it did this (midnight when I was leaving my girlfriend's apartment ) I tried smelling the exhaust and thought I smelled fumes, so I didn't think it was the fuel system. I wiggled the EFI fuse under the hood to make sure it was seated correctly.....still no start ) I finally got it started, by using the only way that I have found that will work when this occurs, which is to jump it off another car or use a battery charger with the start feature. Now, my battery checks out fine with enough volts through all of the cells and passes the cranking amp test AND it spins the starter strong. What am I missing?!?! Did the shop forget to plug something back in completely? Or is some other obscure sensor or electrical component going out? This isn't making sense. Any thoughts?

David

BT17R

Call me suspicious, but I always wonder about recently adjusted things like your throttle position sensor. I'd look at that and the igniter/coil condition.

MTL_4runner

I agree it sound like a no spark condition to me too.
You need to check all the components the shop looked at (engine-wise).

Memphis4X4

Thanks guys. I was going to check the ignitor/coil by removing a spark plug lead and seeing if a spark would jump to a ground. But, my question is, does an ignitor/coil work intermitantly? This morning the truck fired up just fine. I checked all of the things that I know that the shop would have messed with (when they pull the front end off to check the timing that is a lot of stuff being messed with but not in the area of this ignition stuff. I checked wires from the coil to the distributor (these wires are new as are the cap/rotor/plugs). The transmission was messed with (excuse me, fixed), is there a switch in the gear selector that prevents the truck from starting if it is not in park? I would think that would prevent the starter from turning over completely.

D

BT17R

Yeah, in my limited experience an igniter will show intermittent, especially after a hot soak.

There's a tranny Park-Start interlock switch, but it sounds like you've got consistently good starter engagement.

Memphis4X4

Thanks BT17R. I'll look into getting a new ignitor. Is that just piggy-backed onto the coil and can be bought seperately or is it best to replace both?

D

Memphis4X4

$310 for an Ignitor on Partznet.com

Holy Snikeez!!

Is there any way to check that it really is the ignitor before I throw $310 at it hoping that it will fix it?

David

Memphis4X4

Well, in order to help others who might have the same problem in the future, I wanted to respond and close this post. I finally found and 'fixed' the long start problem that my Runner was having.

After the shop kept my Runner for a week and after much finger pointing between the mechanic and the alarm installer, the Runner left the shop not fixed. I paid the mechanic $50 plus tax for his efforts and $20 to the alarm installer who on his day off came by the shop to check my truck out. Both of these guys are my friends and I had to give them some monetary compensation for their time....since they have families to shelter and feed.

The mechanic found that the battery supplied great power to everything, the starter turned perfectly, there was spark at the cylinder, but the injectors weren't injecting fuel. He found that there was power to the injectors but the ECU wasn't closing the ground to the injectors thus complete the circuit and allowing them to inject. He thought it was the ECU going out but when he plugged in another ECU, it acted the same way. Thus we ruled that out. He couldn't find why the ECU wasn't completing the injector circuit......so he gave up after spending many hours on the truck and blamed the alarm for interrupting the firing loop. The Alarm guy informed him that the alarm has nothing to do with the engine firing but only stops the starter from turning over....since the starter was turning over, that was not the problem. The truck wasn't fixed and I was out $70 in goodwill money.

So, I went and picked up my hobbled Runner. Upon leaving the shop, I stopped to get fuel and the Runner acted up again, almost stranding me......the motor turned over but didn't fire. After many attempts, I was finally able to get it started and got it home. I then set out to find the problem myself. I cleaned all battery terminals.....it didn't help. I wiggled the ECU fuse....it didn't help. After doing many seemingly stupid things like the previous....I finally wiggled the cold start injector connection and tugged on the lead......after turning the key, the Runner immediately started!!! What I found was that the cold start injector lead has a short in it!!! It was not completing the circuit to the injector and apparently the ECU needs to see this circuit complete before it closes the loop for the other 6 injectors allowing them to inject fuel into the engine. I wired tied the injector lead in a position where the connection is made and the truck starts perfectly!!!! I went to my Dealer to see if there is a replecement for this lead. The Parts Counter guy said that there used to be a patch kit (the plug pig-tail only) to splice onto the end of the lead.....but that is no longer available. He said that I would have to buy the entire engine harness. I told him thanks, but that I would splice in a new section of wire to fix it. I have been running it a week with just the wire tie holding it in place and it starts perfectly.....I may just leave it that way and run it until it gives me problems in the future.

So....I found the problem and sort of fixed it......I 'fixed' it so that it starts for the time being until I can find a better fix.

David

williemon

Hmmmmm...... Very interesting indeed. Notice my post with a similer issue:

https://www.yotatech.com/forums/show...threadid=17770

TOR

Well you got to it before I could. I was going to say the cold start injector is the only thing it could have been going by your description. Be glad as well it is less than the ingiter!

Todd

Memphis4X4

Williemon, I remember that post. I read it and shared your pain
but didn't offer any solution because I didn't have one at that time. However, I worked some on it last night and found that the bolt in the ground on the top/backside of the engine was completely out and the ground would make intermittent contact....depending on how much I tugged on the cold start injector lead. The bolt was hung in some of the hoses and leads back there.... I writhed and sqirmed to reach the bolt and screwed it back in.....dang, that motor/exhaust is HOT!! The Runner started perfectly after I was done! I thought I had solved the problem....but this morning when I started it....it seemed to act up again! Tugging on the cold start lead and then switching it on got it to start. There has to be something else loose or shorting out. Check that ground out on your truck....it is no where near the oil filler cap but it's worth a shot. My mechanic checked the ignitor and coil pack.....both good. On mine, it is definantly something to do with tugging on the cold start injector lead.

Hey Todd....how much for a V6 3.0L harness...the one that includes the cold start injector lead? Or could it be the cold start injector itself like you suggest? The injector stays fixed and doesn't move on the side of the manifold.....the lead is all that I move and this gets the truck to start. Does that sound like the injector?

I'm so close to a solution.
David

TOR

Well you lucked out on this one man the cold start injector for your vehicle is cheap,(23620-69055) $109.61 w/shipping. I currently have 2 in stock so there wouldn't be additional waiting for it to get to me.

As for the wiring harness I would have to have your complete VIN first, there are too many variations. Shoot me that if you want to and I will quote you a price.

I spoke to one of the techs on this issue and he said unless someone has been really "pulling and tugging on it" then he would lean toward the injector. Let me know if you want me to still look it up with your VIN and I will be happy to.

Todd