Toyoda22

I had a post last week on how my truck has been pulling to the left since i bought it a few months ago. The steering wheel turns itself to the left and it pulls. I notice it all the time, highway is pretty obvious, also if im going very slow it will pull sharper and the brakes will often assist it in turning left. I had an alignment done to it and I have all the printout info below. Also so you know, i have cupping on both of my front tires from being on the rear too long, but i've flipped side for side and it still pulls left. The thing on the printout that looks wrong to me is the rear toe. are these values normal? Note: the numbers won't space out easily, so the left numbers are for the left and the next number is the right ---------front left------Front Right camber: 0, -.2 caster: 1.3, 1.2 toe: .04, .09 SAI: 10.2, 10 included angle: 10.2, 9.8 Front Cross camber: .1 Cross Caster: .1 Cross SAI: .2 total Toe: .13 -----------Rear Left--------Rear Right Camber: 0, 0 Toe: .50, -.25 Rear Cross Camber: .1 Total Toe: .25 Thrust Angle: .37 2000 Toyota Tacoma, single Cab 4X4 4 Cyl

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2000 Tacoma 5 Speed, 4X4, Reg cab, 2.7l, intake elbow removed, silencer box removed, K&N airbox filter, bullbar and rollbar with lights,

clydehatchet

camber might make it drift. toe is still a little too far out. no rear adjustments so that will be of no concern. have your alignment redone and make sure he sets an even cross for the camber and caster. example, left camber +0.2 right camber +0.2 cross camber 0.0 same with caster. most of the time you cant get a 0.0 camber or caster cross so in theory if cross camber is +0.2 then caster cross should be -0.2. offsetting each other. you are right about the tires. rotate the 2 front tires and see if that changes your pull.

Thelast83inNJ

These numbers don't look all that bad, unless the combination of slight negative RF camber and slight RR toe-in is driving/pushing the truck left. It's really nothing wild. The front toe was set, right? Sometimes you must move the tires three times to find a neutral one. Maybe tires just suck. You don't smell brakes LF like caliper or hose locking up and pulling truck left?

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What the F***K are we doing here?

Toyoda22

Don't smell any brakes when driving. Pretty certain there not dragging. I've driven for an hour on the highway and then checked, and there not glowing red hot or smell. i have almost brand new tires on my back wheels, I'm gonna put those up front and see if that makes any difference. If it doesn't then i have no idea what it could be. Damage? Worn out tie rod ends? what else could it be. I do get some steering wheel and dash vibrations on highway and my truck rattles pretty bad on rough roads*need shocks*, but my tires have been balanced multiple times.

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2000 Tacoma 5 Speed, 4X4, Reg cab, 2.7l, intake elbow removed, silencer box removed, K&N airbox filter, bullbar and rollbar with lights,

1989toy4wd

A vehicle always pulls to the side with the most negative camber, so thats not your problem, check the tire pressures...believe it or not low tire pressure on the left side can cause a pull. Those reading are not bad at all, most of that looks in the satisfactory range.

Try criss crossing the tires next, It really sounds like a tire pull to me.

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-Colton-
1989 Toyota Pickup DLX, 22RE, 5-spd, 5-in SAS, Detroit back, ARB front, longs, 37/13R15 Boggers, Marlin front and rear bumpers, Marlin sliders, Ramsey Patriot 9500 winch with synthetic line, Hi-angle D/S F&R, diff breathers, rebuilt tranny, 22RE bored .20 over completely rebuilt (it feels great to not have to buy 2 cases of oil a month!!), whole truck built in memory of my dad (RIP 6-26-08)

Daily driver & tow vehicle: 02 Dodge 2500 Diesel, 5-speed, 4wd, quad cab, longbed, 128k miles

1989toy4wd

Just so you know toe does not cause a pull either!! but if the rear is negative on both tires and the front is positive on both tires, it may! Toe off in front usually comes with a crooked steering wheel.

If I remember correctly a vehicle will also pull to the side with the most positive caster too!

But honestly your measurements arent that bad, and shouldnt cause a pull from what I am reading. Is this the after measurement, because it looks like he didnt do anything.

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-Colton-
1989 Toyota Pickup DLX, 22RE, 5-spd, 5-in SAS, Detroit back, ARB front, longs, 37/13R15 Boggers, Marlin front and rear bumpers, Marlin sliders, Ramsey Patriot 9500 winch with synthetic line, Hi-angle D/S F&R, diff breathers, rebuilt tranny, 22RE bored .20 over completely rebuilt (it feels great to not have to buy 2 cases of oil a month!!), whole truck built in memory of my dad (RIP 6-26-08)

Daily driver & tow vehicle: 02 Dodge 2500 Diesel, 5-speed, 4wd, quad cab, longbed, 128k miles

Toyoda22

These are all after measurements. some very small adjustments were made and one big adjust of the caster or camber(cant remember) on right front tire was made. As i said before, i switched tires from right to left and left to right, and it always pulled to the left. I'm going to put my rears up front and see if that changes things. What else could it be if the tires don't fix this?

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2000 Tacoma 5 Speed, 4X4, Reg cab, 2.7l, intake elbow removed, silencer box removed, K&N airbox filter, bullbar and rollbar with lights,

Gnarly4X

Front wheel alignment is very precise.. just look at the specs.

A good alignment tech will test drive the vehicle and make necessary adjustments so the vehicle tracks straight.... even if the adjustment are "outside" of the spec range!!

It's really hard to find a really good alignment shop. Many will tell you that the reason it "drifts" or "pulls" one way or the other *after his alignment job* is because "it's the crown of the road".. This is utter flipp'n non-sense. Steering and front end suspension technology is almost as intense as engine technology!! The engineers have spent zillions of research hours to make a vehicle track right and steer correctly on a variety of surfaces.

There are a number of things that can make the steering not track right.... tires being one of the factors.

gNARLS.

Toyoda22

I was low on cash and went to sears to get mine aligned for cheap so ya he definately didnt drive it except to put it back outside the garage for me. My tires all looked level but while i was outside i decided to check the pressure all around. I feel like an idiot now but my front left tire was about 8 psi lower than all my others despite looking even. i pumped it up to 29 like all my others so we'll see if that solves my problem. hahah DOH

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2000 Tacoma 5 Speed, 4X4, Reg cab, 2.7l, intake elbow removed, silencer box removed, K&N airbox filter, bullbar and rollbar with lights,

modlite

Are your CV Joints going bad, dragging, and causing it to pull? Just an idea.

The rear end shouldn't have any toe, and this is not adjustable. Either you've hit something and bent the rear end, or their machines are crappy and out of alignment.

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1991 Toyota 4Runner
22RE *Yep I finally found it!*

desertcamper67

Not true and he did that already.
Nope. Pull goes to the side with the least caster.
I agree and disagree. Trust me the more crown in the road, the harder it is to keep the vehicle to track straight. Just like a ball rolls.
Totally agree. Think about it, a solid rear axle kicked off a little to the right can push the front to the left. However, if it does, the steering wheel should be off to the right because of compensating for the rear.

For the shake, if your tire installer is diligent, he would watch the tires as they spin on the balancer. Its easy to just hammer weights on to the wheel where the machine tells you but its another to actually watch the tire tread for an irregular wobble as it spins. You can't see this as the tire sits still. Observing it as it spins can also find any irregularities in the wheel too. All of which can cause your shake. Get those rotors turned too. You did have a brake shake too didn't you?

Rotate those tires and get back to us.

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'85 4Runner totaled and brought back 22RE-C 5spd 4.88's, Rear IFS axle with Detroit Locker and Tru Trac up front
Doug Thorley Header and LC Engineering Cam, K+N, Downey 3 inch leaves and Rubicon shackles with Pro Comp shocks
32x11.5-15 BFG AT's

Toyoda22

Thanks Camper. I pumped up the front left tire, drove 2 hours on the highway and its still pulling left but maybe not as worse as before. I did however notice something new. I was looking down the sides of the truck and i noticed that my rear tires are not even. The right rear tire sticks out about an inch and a half past my fender, while my left rear tire is pretty much flush or a little inside the fender. i'm wondering if my rear axle is a little tweaked or if my bed is skewed to the left hand side. My truck is coming up on 100k miles which happens to be when my tire guy told me to come back for a free rotation, so in about 2 weeks or so i'll head to him and hear what he has to say.

What do you guys think about the rear axle? what can i personally do to fix this?

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2000 Tacoma 5 Speed, 4X4, Reg cab, 2.7l, intake elbow removed, silencer box removed, K&N airbox filter, bullbar and rollbar with lights,

98runner210

I agreee with the alignment shops not doing test drives. I had my Maxima aligned, got it back and it was not correct. They replied well if you look at the printout, i stopped and said well then when your driving the car....

My friend took his Altima in, got it back and alignment still wasn't correct. Lazy a$$ mechanics.

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'98 4Runner Limited White w/ silver flares

Toyoda22

there all BS, so are most mechanics i have ever been to. best advice my grandfather has given me "Find a mechanic, and make damn sure he's your best friend". too bad my mechanic friend works on tractors and mowers

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2000 Tacoma 5 Speed, 4X4, Reg cab, 2.7l, intake elbow removed, silencer box removed, K&N airbox filter, bullbar and rollbar with lights,

Gnarly4X

You missed my point.... the steering should track straight 99% of the time.

Yes, there will be times (1%) when you are driving on a road or surface that will cause drifting or slight pulling.

BUT.... when an alignment shop told me "it's been adjusted for "the crown of the road"... my response was "Which flipp'n road did you adjust it for!!!!!!!!!!!????????" I said "Well, so the German Mercedes engineers built a $50,000 car and it goes down the road "riding on some crown", as I intently wait for it to drive off the road!!!!????

Most cars today have sophisticated steering systems and will track perfectly normal on just about any highway.... regardless of some "crown".

gNARLS.

eddieleephd

ok the total number does not look all that bad however the right side camber is at -.2 and the right side toe is at .09 .05 different from the right this alone will create a little pull to the left beings it is toed in slightly, add that to the fact that it is cambered more and you will get a bigger pull. included angle at 9.8 vs. 10.2 that is .4 to the right side.
it seems that they are making numbers appear to work that will not if the right side is more than the left and the over all number is acceptable then what is happening is that the math is wrong because -.25 + .50 does equal .25 in a mathmatical equation not in the physical reality you really want some thing like +.25+.25= .50 giving an equal amount on both sides!! not sure honestly if +or- is in but you want in on toe so that both tires push toward each other. then when it comes to camber you have one at 0 and the other at -.2 negative means that the bottom of the tire is out not in this is the right one this is pushing in as well because the wheel is trying to ride flat on a the surface and the right is toed in I am guessing .05 more than the left from what you said about your tire pressure helping some if you brought the right tire in on the bottom or toed it out a little then the effects would lessen preferably both. it is difficult for many to understand the great differences that can come from such small adjustments but to me it is clear as day. if all the numbers are at + and only.2 to .02 difference then you will not feel the pull hardly at all and when you get to the other side of the crown of the road then this would reverse. all of course depending on the total crown and such.

now for the rear end do you know if the leafs were ever changed?? this could be the issue there leafs on this truck are notorious for going bad if you get new leafs and shocks and the issue there is not fixed then you will need to look deeper but untill the good condition is found there, there is not much you can do about this
and yes the rear is effecting your track on the road a good bit it would be possible to compensate for the rear with the front but you would be better off doing the rear end work first.

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Flyin High 4:19 and Green!!!

'99 3.4L 4x4 All Manual Taco
2.5" lift OME CO and Alcan Leafs
Deck Plate Mod. "Soon Hydrogen Injection!"

Thelast83inNJ

I think the the thrust angle need to be closer in the lower number range?, which I still think the rear is pushing it left. But I am a BS mechanic who never test drives. Lazy a$$. The paperboy makes more than me.

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What the F***K are we doing here?

Ironmike4x4

I'm NOT an alignment tech nor do I want to be but was unwillingly dragged into learning how to do it. As far as road crown. YES it does exist. I've been burned by this before, until the Master Tech rode w/ me. It's best to find a 4 lane highway to drive on. If you are in the most left lane after an alignment and it does not pull then you've done your job right. My problem was I was driving on the far right and it would pull right every time.

An experienced and great alignment tech will always perform his/her prealignment checks before even beginning. Checking air pressures. Making sure the tires all match and are the correct sizes. Checking ball joints, inner and outer tie rod ends. Free play in the wheel bearings, etc. Only THEN they will proceed to putting the heads on the tires and performing an alignment.

As far as the machine says the alignments are in spec. It depends on many factors. If the machine has been updated. The vehicle has a modified suspension setup or it has been wrecked. Unfortunately I was trained by crooked alignment guys. When the camber didn't line up. The tech would actually tilt the heads up or down to make the machine line up and become in specs. Once I realized what was going on I expressed my concern w/ the manager. He was crooked too apparently and they kept their jobs. Only when I informed the master tech did he go to the owners and they were promptly fired leaving me to be retrained.

If your vehicle has been wrecked then you may have had a crooked body shop work on it. Often times they will believe they've stretched and corrected the frame well enough to think that an alignment is not necessary and pocket the labor for it. I even once had a problem w/ a Tacoma because of body shop. They broke the adjuster for the camber and it never lined up right. After charging them 3 times for it, I had the BS manager ride w/ me. His response was "let's hope they don't ever let go of the steering wheel." I was irate, he was very soon gone.

My long and drawn out point is, if the vehicle is still pulling then you need to have the shop look at it. If they don't believe you then have them to drive while you ride. There are crooked shops and unfortunately leave a bad taste in people's mouth that they assume all of us are crooks. The bad ones deserved to be called out and fired, while the good ones you want to keep his/her number. I've got dozens of clientele's this way and will only have me or someone I recommend to work on their vehicles. You just have to do a little hunting for us to get the right ones.

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1998 4Runner SR5, Surco Safari rack, diff breather mod, Cobra WXST II CB radio, 31" Winston ATs, clear corner/bumper lens, hitch mount backup lamps, PCV catch can.

modlite

Well you need to measure this and make sure it's not an optical illusion. On all the race cars I've ever worked on this is controlled by the Panhard bar, i'm not sure what it's called on Toyotas. But in circle track we will actually kick the right rear out to give the rear end more leverage in the turn which will in turn make it looser (and turn left).

It should be square in your truck. Measure from the outside edge of your tires to the inside of the frame rails on both sides. This should be even. If it's not one of your rear end supports (Panhard bar) is most likely bent.

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1991 Toyota 4Runner
22RE *Yep I finally found it!*

Toyoda22

The leaf springs haven't been replaced, they seem to be alright. i've carried a bed full of firewood and there wasn't much dip in the rear end. i'm going to measure the distances on the rear end and see where that gets me.

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2000 Tacoma 5 Speed, 4X4, Reg cab, 2.7l, intake elbow removed, silencer box removed, K&N airbox filter, bullbar and rollbar with lights,

Gnarly4X

Sorry, your statement about far right vs most left lane doesn't make sense!

Why would a properly aligned steering pull in the left lane and not in the right lane???? Can you please explain the physics, mechanics, logic, or alignment setting.

YES, "crowns" on roadways is part of the construction criteria. Can you please explain how the "crown of the road" effects the alignment specifications and settings, or adjustments? I have NEVER seen any front end alignment specifications that have an adjustment or setting for the "crown of the road"!!! But, I'm not an alignment expert.

When I took my Mecedes in to have new tires put on, they said I should have the alignment checked. I said OK. The car was steering PERFECT before I took it in. When I drove the car from the shop, I noticed a pulling immediately and did u-turn and told the Manager. They put it up on the rack and rechecked it, and finally said "it's been adjusted for the crown of the road".... I basically told him he had his head up his rectum!! After some harsh exchange of words, I left the shop and called an old racing buddy. He gave me the name of a REAL chassis shop. I drove there and explained to the owner what had just happened. He laughed outloud when I told him that my $50,000 Mercedes now ONLY drives down the crown of the road!! He said, "Let's test drive it".... we drove for about 10 minutes, he pulled it up on the rack and in less than 20 minutes, he said "Let's test it". He drove it and he had fixed the pulling entirely. We drove on several difference roads and highways and it tracked perfectly.

So much for adjusting your steering for "the crown of the road"!!

gNARLS.

modlite

Road Crown is just an excuse for they're to lazy to align it right.

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1991 Toyota 4Runner
22RE *Yep I finally found it!*

eddieleephd

can you post pics of both left and right rear on a flat surface so we may see the difference in the ride height? the reality is that the stock suspension does not account enough for the weight of the fuel tank or the battery this added weight wears on the suspension and can cause the issue that you are having,
also maybe pics of the front as well same as for rear.

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Flyin High 4:19 and Green!!!

'99 3.4L 4x4 All Manual Taco
2.5" lift OME CO and Alcan Leafs
Deck Plate Mod. "Soon Hydrogen Injection!"

Toyoda22

Iwont be able to get pictures till thanksgiving when i get back home. I'll measure the distances in the rear wheel spacing tomorrow when its bright enough for me to see what i'm doing

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2000 Tacoma 5 Speed, 4X4, Reg cab, 2.7l, intake elbow removed, silencer box removed, K&N airbox filter, bullbar and rollbar with lights,

akaphilly

what sears did you goto? i kno a guy at the cape one who knows alot about toyotas. does a real good job. u could just get it redone under warrenty

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http://cardomain.com/ride/2526416 84 p/u, 94 22re, header, RUF's f150 rears, all-pro triple x member, duals, e-locker, lsd front 35mtr

96 limited 4runner, trd s/c exhaust trans cooler, toytec coilovers, fj80 rears, budbuild front skid 285/75 procomp mt