PhxTRDRunner

OK, I'm sure this has been asked before, but why not? Why not use the front Trailmaster Taco 6" system with the OME rear lift springs and 3 inch spacer? I would assume you'd need a major panhard drop bracket, new shocks in the rear, modified drag links or extended? Probably some kind of modification to the trans. mounting bracket to clear the front driveline...but that would be about it right? Some longer brake lines and whatnot..but??? What am I missing?


Why has this not been done yet? I go to you, Ye' ole' wise yotatech members???


I really am considering this so please...let me know what I am missing!!

keisur

a really minor thing called cv joints and ADD

hey lemme ask you, how are those silverstars compared to just the regular sylvania's? is it worth the extra cash for them? I was thinking of trying them rather than those $80 ones.

PhxTRDRunner

They work much better than stock,but I'm not sure how they are compared to the other brands out there. I got them for free, so I have no complaints!

btw- the trailmaster lift would keep cv joints at stock levels....

Cebby

What all does the trailmaster kit include? Diff drop bracket?

jx94148

It would have to drop the diff 6 inches to maintain stock CV angles. All it would do is give you more breakover angle and drain your wallet. You would be looking at longer driveshafts ($$$) and really farged up steering ($$$) for starters. To really build it right with 6 inches suspension lift you are looking at more expense than the whole truck is worth.

You could easily put a Dana 44 straight axle and leaf springs up front for less than a 6 inch IFS lift would cost. Then again, some people like their trucks to be all show and no go.

asudan96Runner

I agree. I think that 44Runner is going to have a solution for the solid front axle soon. If not, I am sure Steve will break something out when noone is looking.

As for the Sylvanias.. I have a picture for you...



I now run the Philips Rallye bulbs. They are a tad bit brighter, but not as "blue"

It isn't a BMW... I want to SEE!

Dan

keisur

but then your not really gaining any ground clearance right? I guess maybe that would allow you to fit bigger tires but still need to trim a little fender here and there. if it doesn't get you more ground clearance then I would say go with a cheaper body lift, it would serve the same purpose. also the drive shaft angles would be pretty extreme and you would need to somehow shim to get the angles out, otherwise vibrations would be definately a problem. not sure how hard shimming is for a coil sprung, I'm not that familiar with that aspect. just tyring to think of everything to get covered cause I'm interested in this myself. haha/.

WATRD

Huh? I take it you are not familiar with the TM system. What he is describing could actually work nicely. With a few measurements, it would be easy enough to confirm.

The TM addresses the points you made above and then some. The driveshafts remain stock and it's got the steering covered. Since the TM compensates for the height by dropping the diff/steering/etc, it's REALLY easy to then put on lift coils, coilovers or stock coils and spacers to get up to three MORE inches of lift.

I think your numbers are off as well. The average for an SAS conversion is running between $3k and $5k. He's looking at under $2k for a TM and all the stuff for the rear. Certainly his rig is worth more than that?

I think that he might be on to something with this. But, then again, by your definition, my truck is all show and no go Wanna meet up and settle it on the trails?

Gene

Okay Rob... I'm calling you out - TODAY! Meet me at 1pm and we'll go see what your truck can do! Heh-heh.

Having worked on the 4Runner as well as having turned a few wrenches on Rob's truck - yeah - the TM front lift would work on a 3rd gen 4Runner, no problem. It's the rear that I would be concerned about. I don't like the idea of 3" spacer back there - but it would work. Oh, and since you'll want larger tires anyway, you might as well get new wheels too. I think you have to because of some backspacing issues with stock rims and the TM.

44Runner

One reason, plain and simple. No one has either the balls or the want to do it as of yet. I can straight up tell you that you can make it work. If you can get the TM kit in up front the rear is no problem. I see no reason why the TM kit would be hard to put in the front due to the almost identical setups of the 3rd gen and the Taco.

Go for it, you could be the first...

The reason I didn't go that way is also just as simple. You don't gain any travel and you don't gain any strength. I just couldn't justify using my very limited budget on something that would only allow me to clear bigger tires. I wanted an actual performance increase. SAS was my only option. i now have more front travel and a stronger setup and no worries about CV angles. i freakin hated those things...

WATRD

Fair enough. But since you issued the challenge, I call the arena. Let's take a drive to some neutral ground and see what your truck can do in the sand dunes... How about a road trip to the "Pismo of Washington"?

I am looking at some diagrams and I really do think this guy is onto something. I don't see any reason you couldn't put the TM on the front of a 4Runner and reap all the benefits. But the back, if it's that funky coil suspension it's going to be a challenge...

Gene

You got it, man! I'm SO there, dude! Today, 1pm, no excuses... You know the usual meeting place.

On the TM thing: It looks like 44Runner already has the rear worked out. Thoughts 44Runner? I think you were asked in another thread, but do you have a $$ total on just the SAS?

44Runner

let me see if i can come up with a rough estimate real quick

leaves: 200
axle: 200
gears: 130
install kit: 80
gear install: 200
steering box: 100
hysteer: 550
shackles: 50
u-bolts: 45
spring plates: 40
metal for various things: 150
warn hubs: 75
paint: 15
gear oil: 15
grease: 8
axle rebuild crap(wheel and spindle bearings, seals, u-joints, ball joints): 200
driveshaft: 250

total: 2308

now that is without the locker and rear stuff and crawler and a ton of other stuff I did during this project. This is just looking at the actual cost of getting a solid axle under the front of a 3rd gen. The problem comes because you don't want to stop there. You need to lift the rear and get bigger tires at the very least. Why SAS without lockers? So you need at least one to go in the new axle up front, and one for the rear if you are lacking in that department. I wanted new rims too. The cost really isn't in the SAS itself, but in all the things it leads you to want, it is a gateway drug

WATRD

Plus, since MANY folks can't do the SAS on their own, the biggest hidden cost; Labor.

Adding coilovers is easy. Installing the TM requires moderate mechanical skills, but I think most of us would agree that an SAS would be considered a job for someone with some pretty strong mechanical and welding skills, as well as significant knowledge of the vehicle since there are no kits with "insert tab 'A' into slot 'B' type instructions yet...

So, I am dying to know, being a leaf sprung kind of guy, how would you lift the rear of a coil sprung 4Runner to get 6+ inches more?

44Runner

First step as I see it would definately be to move the gas tank. It gets in the way of the link system you would need to run that kind of height...

WATRD

Ahhh... I suspected it would have that kind of mod required...

Thanks!

PhxTRDRunner

Wow, I can't believe all the controversy I stirred up on this one. I have been thinking about this for a while now, just because I do use my truck about 80/20 on/off road so a SAS just isn't practical for me. I've also thought about the body lift option, but being the first lifted IFS truck over 3 inches sure does sound nice I think I need to get in contact with a Taco owner locally that is lifted with the trailmaster system for some hard number measurements.

Also, what comes with the Taco kit that sells for $800 +/- ?? It is stated as a 3.5 inch lift from someone like fabtech.

And/Or

What comes in the kit for $1800 +/- is stated as a 6 inch lift?

I'm wondering if you use the 3.5 inch system along with the 2 inch lift spacers, then you'd have a conservative 5 inches, making the rear not soo much of a difference. Or is the 3.5 inch system just another spacer system? All these questions!!!


44Runner ~ how far did you have to move your gas tank? ..and how much of a pain is that really?


jx94148 ~ Not sure what you mean here...your saying IFS trucks can't go? I'm pretty sure I saw a couple at the AZRocks event tearing up some rocks that I didn't think I'd ever want to try!!! And I think you need to check www.Kbb.com for truck values, either that or you like VEEERRRRYYYY expensive lift kits!!

http://www.kbb.com/kb/ki.dll/kw.kc.u...unner&4;TT;E4&

$24k lift kit?? OUCH!!

WATRD

Basically, that is coilovers and either a block or an AAL in the rear. There are two Fabtech kits with the low priced one not worth your time and a couple of companies bundle Sway Away coilovers with something for the rear and call it a kit.

If you are talking about the Fabtech, no one knows for sure. It has not been released, despite their promising it "next month" for the last 18 months. There are a couple of prototypes running around TTORA, but other than taking pre-orders, Fabtech has been refusing to comment. I DO know that I would not want to be the first... With Fabtech's REALLY poor customer service, I would not want to be their Guinea Pig.

NOOOOOOOOO! Stacking spacers on top of coilovers is only going to bring you pain and suffering. Your ball joints, CV boots and CV's will give up the ghost in record time. If you want that much lift, you have got to go with something that is going to drop the diff significantly to maintain some semblance of the stock geometry

I agree entirely on your AZRocks comment. Demello and the IFS gang went EVERYWHERE the SAS set went. It was not pretty, but I have the photos to prove it. For those of us who are not building a trail only rig, SAS is not necessarily the only option.


IFS Core!

PhxTRDRunner

WATRD ~ I was afraid of that Just trying to slim down the overall costs a bit. I guess its going to be all or nothing!

btw- Demello is *&^*&%*&*^ nuts!!!

WATRD

Shane I were behind him on the infamous night run on Axle Alley. After seeing that, I would have to admit that he has a screw loose somewhere But in a REALLY good way! That boy can WHEEL! The only time I saw him break a sweat was when the winch truck gave up the ghost on one of the waterfalls and he had to sit with his bed and rear wheels hanging over the edge for half an hour while we got another rig in position.

...and boy can he cook. The first night in camp he produced some Carne Asada on his grill that makes my mouth water to this day.

But, the neon on the floorboards of his truck has GOT to go! hehehehe