Idler Arm Woes/Misinformation

deathrunner · 08-29-2004, 10:56 AM

Yesterday I went to change my idler arm. I got everything off with no problems.
The bottome bushing was dry as well as the bottom of the arm post. It looked like muddy rust for half of the post. So I took out the bushings, steelwooled the post, took out all the old grease, cleaned the housing, repacked with tons of new grease.....and I was ready to put on the new parts from Toyota.

I reach for the first bushing and it doesn't fit!!!!

Then I compare it to the old bushing and it is like a 1/4" bigger. The other new bushing is also too large. Just for good measure I checked the dust seal...and it too is too big.

I was pissed. I followed the part numbers off of 4x4wire:

http://www.4x4wire.com/toyota/maintenance/idler/

Nowhere on there does it mention and difference between 86-96 Idler arm sizes. So I figured that the part numbers worked for all the years. (I have an 89)

I just want everybody to know that I think there are different size Idler arms out there.

So I continued to put the old compnents back in with the new grease, so I can at least drive around.

I'll check on monday and post with the part numbers that I get then.

Oh yeah and here are some quick hints for doing the idler arm:

1. Be sure to grease the tongs on the pickle for. It really helps to keep the seal on the end of the idler arm in tact.

2. To pop off the dust seal, wedge a pickle for between the dust cap and idler assembly. I couldn't get it to budge witha screwdriver as mentioned in the writeup, but spreading out the prying forced did the trick.

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nunsa · 08-29-2004, 11:20 AM

I learned my lesson there also, I should have known better! I recieved the wrong part also. Anymore I do my homework when it comes to part #'s, I double check over and over just to be sure!

Some part #'s change in the middle of the production year.

ErikB · 08-29-2004, 01:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by deathrunner

...I followed the part numbers off of 4x4wire:

http://www.4x4wire.com/toyota/maintenance/idler/

...I forwarded your complaint to Joe and he updated the article.

I don't know when the cutoff is for the different years/bushings though.

If you go by Downey's site for the different idler arm braces, it looks like the change was between 92/93...?

Marc P · 08-29-2004, 07:44 PM

Thats wierd--I rebuilt mine about a year ago, and had no issues. I used the part #'s listed in the 4x4 wire thread.

ErikB · 08-30-2004, 06:53 AM

Probably because you and Joe have '94 and '95 trucks that use the same (later) style bushings and Deathrunner has an '89 that uses the earlier bushings.

It would just be nice to know when the exact cutoff is though...

4Hummer · 08-30-2004, 08:21 AM

Hahaha Thats too Funny.

I rebuilt my Idler Arms Last week with the write up from 4x4 Wire. I too couldn't get the new bushings to fit. But I ruined the old ones taking them out. I ended up sanding the new plastic bushings down with a dremel and finally got them in.

No problems now.... But what a PAIN.

deathrunner · 08-30-2004, 12:13 PM

Cool, I'm glad it wasn't just me. I guess I'll get the right parts today. That's awesome that he updated it so quickly...and thanks for letting him know. Hopefully we saved some other people some grief.

-Seth

4Hummer · 08-30-2004, 12:45 PM

How many Idler arms are there ?? I was crawling under my truck this weekend after wheeling and found what looks like an Idler arm on the drivers side ?

Are there 2 ? I re-built the one on the passanger side ??

(Sorry its monday and my brain is not working)

Buki · 08-30-2004, 03:15 PM

Does anyone have the dimensions (ID,OD, height ....) right off hand for the plastic bushings in the idler arm or know where I can find them???

deathrunner · 08-30-2004, 03:19 PM

4Hummer, that other thing that looks like an idler arm is actually your pitman arm. The pitman is attached to the steering box. The pitman actually moves the steering assmebly, while the idler helps to keep everything suspended while the pitman directs it.

Buki- I can tell you on wednesday, that's when my parts will be in. There is definitely two styles of Idler arm for 4x4.

Buki · 08-30-2004, 03:41 PM

I went to mcmaster.com and they make bronze bearing flanged bushings!
I just wnated to know the dimensions to see if there was a drop in replacement.I had mine custom machined at a local machine shop for $35 ,but these were running $3/pc depending on size and made out of the same material better deal than what I did. If anyone is handy with machining tools they may want to check it out. Go to www.macmaster.com and type in *bronze bearing* follow the link to flanged bearings. Read what it says about the bronze bearing, you will never have to replace your plastic bearings again. But then again you might have to get a truss because the arm will bend...........yada yada yada and more $$$$

934rnr · 08-30-2004, 03:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Buki

I went to mcmaster.com and they make bronze bearing flanged bushings!
I just wnated to know the dimensions to see if there was a drop in replacement.I had mine custom machined at a local machine shop for $35 ,but these were running $3/pc depending on size and made out of the same material better deal than what I did. If anyone is handy with machining tools they may want to check it out. Go to www.macmaster.com and type in *bronze bearing* follow the link to flanged bearings. Read what it says about the bronze bearing, you will never have to replace your plastic bearings again. But then again you might have to get a truss because the arm will bend...........yada yada yada and more $$$$

Ya Calimini for one uses bronze bushings for thier IFS steering solutions.

I think your linky is wrong though www.macmaster.com is a bed and breakfast place. I think you mean't www.mcmaster.com

Buki · 08-30-2004, 04:38 PM

You're right sorry about the extra *A*!

deathrunner · 08-30-2004, 06:10 PM

Are there any bad side affects to a bronze bushing? I mean why wouldn't toyota have done it. Sorry, just being skeptical. -Seth

4Hummer · 08-30-2004, 06:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by deathrunner

4Hummer, that other thing that looks like an idler arm is actually your pitman arm. The pitman is attached to the steering box. The pitman actually moves the steering assmebly, while the idler helps to keep everything suspended while the pitman directs it.

Do you need to re-build the pitman arm ?

Buki · 08-30-2004, 07:31 PM

I think the all mighty dollar rears it's ugly head again. What do you think costs more a piece of plastic or an oil impregnated piece of bronze? My buddy had a job for GM and just by eliminating two via/traces in their PCB over the course of the year they estimated they would save $250,000.
I got tired of replacing the factory plastic after every run so I checked into getting some bronze ones made. If your steering gets sloppy or you a clunk from the front end trying moving the idler arm it's probably that plastic bushing.
I don't think there are any negatives unless you start saying as long as I'm in there might as well put on a truss... then comes the heim joints....
No, just kidding, I really don't think there are any negatives unless someone can chime in. I don't like replacing things knowing they are going to go out again soon, if I'm gonna change something, I try to upgrade it somehow for it to last longer or improve it's performance.

deathrunner · 08-30-2004, 09:10 PM

Cool. But on the upgrade note, I thin I will just get the Total Chaos idler arm and be done with the whole mess.

08-29-2004, 11:20 AM	#2 (permalink)
nunsa Registered User Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Pennsylvania Posts: 263	I learned my lesson there also, I should have known better! I recieved the wrong part also. Anymore I do my homework when it comes to part #'s, I double check over and over just to be sure! Some part #'s change in the middle of the production year. __________________ The Master Toyota Tech, 2003 Toyota Tacoma xtra-cab, 3.4 V6, 5speed,4x4, TRD w/OffRoad Package. "Expert on the 3.0 Engine!" Disclaimer: As a former TOYOTA TECHNICIAN I authorize this post/reply US MARINE* SEMPER FI**

08-29-2004, 07:44 PM	#4 (permalink)
Marc P Contributing Member Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Santee, CA Posts: 2,736	Thats wierd--I rebuilt mine about a year ago, and had no issues. I used the part #'s listed in the 4x4 wire thread. __________________ 1995 4Runner---SAS with goodies

08-30-2004, 06:53 AM	#5 (permalink)
ErikB Registered User Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Auburn, CA Posts: 82	Probably because you and Joe have '94 and '95 trucks that use the same (later) style bushings and Deathrunner has an '89 that uses the earlier bushings. It would just be nice to know when the exact cutoff is though... __________________ - Erik '86 44runner, '97 T100, '97 4runner, '05 WR450 http://home.4x4wire.com/erik

08-30-2004, 08:21 AM	#6 (permalink)
4Hummer Registered User Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Canada Posts: 1,975	Hahaha Thats too Funny. I rebuilt my Idler Arms Last week with the write up from 4x4 Wire. I too couldn't get the new bushings to fit. But I ruined the old ones taking them out. I ended up sanding the new plastic bushings down with a dremel and finally got them in. No problems now.... But what a PAIN. __________________ Michael 1991 4Runner 22RE. CHOP www.obsessiveoffroadclub.com

08-30-2004, 12:13 PM	#7 (permalink)
deathrunner Registered User Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: San Diego CA Posts: 2,971	Cool, I'm glad it wasn't just me. I guess I'll get the right parts today. That's awesome that he updated it so quickly...and thanks for letting him know. Hopefully we saved some other people some grief. -Seth __________________ IFS IS FOR LOSERS Decroded Piece of Crap

08-30-2004, 12:45 PM	#8 (permalink)
4Hummer Registered User Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Canada Posts: 1,975	How many Idler arms are there ?? I was crawling under my truck this weekend after wheeling and found what looks like an Idler arm on the drivers side ? Are there 2 ? I re-built the one on the passanger side ?? (Sorry its monday and my brain is not working) __________________ Michael 1991 4Runner 22RE. CHOP www.obsessiveoffroadclub.com

08-30-2004, 03:15 PM	#9 (permalink)
Buki Registered User Join Date: Aug 2004 Posts: 64	Does anyone have the dimensions (ID,OD, height ....) right off hand for the plastic bushings in the idler arm or know where I can find them???

08-30-2004, 03:19 PM	#10 (permalink)
deathrunner Registered User Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: San Diego CA Posts: 2,971	4Hummer, that other thing that looks like an idler arm is actually your pitman arm. The pitman is attached to the steering box. The pitman actually moves the steering assmebly, while the idler helps to keep everything suspended while the pitman directs it. Buki- I can tell you on wednesday, that's when my parts will be in. There is definitely two styles of Idler arm for 4x4. __________________ IFS IS FOR LOSERS Decroded Piece of Crap

08-30-2004, 03:41 PM	#11 (permalink)
Buki Registered User Join Date: Aug 2004 Posts: 64	I went to mcmaster.com and they make bronze bearing flanged bushings! I just wnated to know the dimensions to see if there was a drop in replacement.I had mine custom machined at a local machine shop for $35 ,but these were running $3/pc depending on size and made out of the same material better deal than what I did. If anyone is handy with machining tools they may want to check it out. Go to www.macmaster.com and type in bronze bearing follow the link to flanged bearings. Read what it says about the bronze bearing, you will never have to replace your plastic bearings again. But then again you might have to get a truss because the arm will bend...........yada yada yada and more $$$$

08-30-2004, 04:38 PM	#13 (permalink)
Buki Registered User Join Date: Aug 2004 Posts: 64	You're right sorry about the extra A!

08-30-2004, 06:10 PM	#14 (permalink)
deathrunner Registered User Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: San Diego CA Posts: 2,971	Are there any bad side affects to a bronze bushing? I mean why wouldn't toyota have done it. Sorry, just being skeptical. -Seth __________________ IFS IS FOR LOSERS Decroded Piece of Crap

08-30-2004, 07:31 PM	#16 (permalink)
Buki Registered User Join Date: Aug 2004 Posts: 64	I think the all mighty dollar rears it's ugly head again. What do you think costs more a piece of plastic or an oil impregnated piece of bronze? My buddy had a job for GM and just by eliminating two via/traces in their PCB over the course of the year they estimated they would save $250,000. I got tired of replacing the factory plastic after every run so I checked into getting some bronze ones made. If your steering gets sloppy or you a clunk from the front end trying moving the idler arm it's probably that plastic bushing. I don't think there are any negatives unless you start saying as long as I'm in there might as well put on a truss... then comes the heim joints.... No, just kidding, I really don't think there are any negatives unless someone can chime in. I don't like replacing things knowing they are going to go out again soon, if I'm gonna change something, I try to upgrade it somehow for it to last longer or improve it's performance.

08-30-2004, 09:10 PM	#17 (permalink)
deathrunner Registered User Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: San Diego CA Posts: 2,971	Cool. But on the upgrade note, I thin I will just get the Total Chaos idler arm and be done with the whole mess. __________________ IFS IS FOR LOSERS Decroded Piece of Crap

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