Feeler: 3.4L TURBO manifold group buy? - Page 3

984RNR · 11-28-2005, 08:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AK95Taco

If you have been even remotely nice to your motor (i.e. oil changes and not 5k shifts every day) then a 5fz is good to AT LEAST 300k. I didn't even hesitate to put one won with 196k on the od.

I had the oportunity to take a lok at some bearings on a 5fz (junkyard motor making sure it hadn't ran upside down). It had about 160k on it and the bearings looked new! I couldn't beileve how beefy the bottom end of these things are.

There are a couple of guys on TTORA and customtacos pushing 100k SINCE S/Cing and lots with over 200k total miles that are S/C'd. In short as long as you take care of the lean out ping issues (a la Gadget) I wouldn't hesitate to put boost to a 5fz with 175k.

That puts a smile on my face

Definately Interested

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node · 11-28-2005, 10:22 PM

Good news!

The first batch of laser cut flanges will be done tomorrow. I will have head, turbo input and, downpipe flanges all ready to start assembly of a new prototype as soon as I get this MR2 out of the way. I will take picks of the manifolds so you guys can see how the work is progressing along the way.

I'm certainly not going to argue that the turbo will make boost as low as the supercharger, it wont, not THIS system anyway. It is possible to choose a turbo that will have positive pressure at idle just like the SC. My twin turbo 5VZ had TDO4's with the 5cm housings and it had instantaneous boost response. There was zero spool time. Like everything though, there was a trade off. The tiny turbos choked the engine in the upper rpms. It actually felt just like the SC.

The kit will still spool low enough so you wont fall out of the boost range when 4wheeling. Especially you 3.0 guys that will be getting the smaller AR turbine housing. The 3.4L doesn't really need too much help down low, so it will receive the large AR supra housing or even a T4. Up top is where the motor is grasping for breath. That's where I would like to see the turbo at its optimum flow. I plan to try several different compressor sizes and may offer the smaller compressor wheels for those who want really fast responce.

You will be reaping the benefits of all the experimentation I have been doing with these motors over the last year (4 different sets of manifolds LOL). I'm fairly confident in using these compressors with the 5VZ and I will provide dyno numbers of the turbos at several different boost settings with the stock fuel system. Like I said earlier, I will also install a few different compressor sections and record the results with each. As for the 3.0 I will have to spend some more time with the engine. I know that fuel is going to have to be addressed and I have a test vehicle to play around with. Unfortunately its an auto transmission so it may not give accurate dyno numbers. Im still looking for a MT 3.0 truck locally to install a kit on.

tour4fun · 11-29-2005, 09:07 AM

Node - what steel are you making the headers out of ?

DavidA · 11-29-2005, 01:22 PM

So Node...I have a good friend in Knoxville,TN that I want to visit...doesn't look too much farther to your area. Might be nice to have you install a turbo for me. (grin)

node · 11-29-2005, 04:47 PM

David,

We would love for you to come by the shop. Knoxville isnt exactly around the corner though. But if you are driving from texas anway ehh.

tour4fun: the manifolds will initially be offered only in mild s40 but david wants to produce some in stainless. I have been using the thick wall stuff for over a year now and have not cracked it even once so I would reccomend using the same materials since they have proven to hold up. At least untill I get a chance to test the stainless over an extended period of time.

I got some new parts in for one of the 5VZ-FE turbo motor projects at the shop check em out --->Pic One Pic Two

PowerMac4Ever · 11-30-2005, 09:25 AM

node, your 5VZ-powered MR2 is very impressive to say the least! You do some amazing work. I personally would be interested in a turbo manifold if it came with a T4 flange and a pipe to run an external wastegate.

node · 11-30-2005, 10:32 PM

While one off versions would be easy to produce, I would prefer this to just be a simple mass produced manifold to start with. That will make things easy for myself and my welder. The problem with fitting different flanges on there is that each turbo has a different housing shape. Some are clockwise, others are not. I know you are familiar with this PowerMac.

I found a 3VZ 4runner to do the test fitting on for the 3.0 kit so its possible to make you an kit. Well see. I should have pics of all the flanges and parts tomorrow if I have time to run by the shop and snap a few.

node · 12-05-2005, 07:52 PM

Update:

The laser cut flanges are ready for the manifolds. I have completed the MR2 5VZ manifolds and Im now ready to start prototyping a truck mani. Looks like we need at least 3 to 4 hours with a rig to get all the fabbing done on the first manifold. Im looking for local volenteers who can be without their truck for a full day.

Heres a pic of the turbo input and output flanges

And here the size of the downpipe can bee seen. Its 3" inner diameter but I will also produce some with stock exhaust sizes for those who have to pass emissions

oly884 · 12-05-2005, 08:21 PM

The only thing i see about superchargers and turbochargers off road is...

Do you really need THAT much power? You have to realize HOW much tourqe you have in 4-low. Ask yourself, do you need more? The power isn't needed for off road stuff, unless you are racing. I have never been in 4-low and needed more power. If you do, just get lower gears.

Node, I am VERY interested in this, but it'll be a while till i can get the $$$ to buy a kit.

node · 12-05-2005, 08:35 PM

Several of the board members are working with me to produce the kit. Once I have a prototype made up for the manifold, they will immediatly be available just like the 5VZ MR2 Turbo manifold is now. The "kit" will take a little more time. www.MR2Guru.com has agreed to distribute the 4runner, prerunner and T100 manifolds and kit once they are available. That way you guys can buy these parts from a respected, well established buissness. They are about to redo their website to include toyota trucks

oly884, you are correct, through gearing you dont need more power in 4L but if you are towing somthing big or just want to pass when going uphill the extra torque and horsepower will be VERY noticeable. We are even throwing around the idea of an electronic turbo enable switch so that you wont need to run premium unless you enguage the boost, very nifty. So basically when you need extra power for towing you could flip a switch that would enable the boost. Cool huh?

Weasy2k · 12-05-2005, 08:37 PM

keep it up man!

oly884 · 12-05-2005, 08:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by node

Several of the board members are working with me to produce the kit. Once I have a prototype made up for the manifold, they will immediatly be available just like the 5VZ MR2 Turbo manifold is now. The "kit" will take a little more time. www.MR2Guru.com has agreed to distribute the 4runner, prerunner and T100 manifolds and kit once they are available. That way you guys can buy these parts from a respected, well established buissness. They are about to redo their website to include toyota trucks

oly884, you are correct, through gearing you dont need more power in 4L but if you are towing somthing big or just want to pass when going uphill the extra torque and horsepower will be VERY noticeable. We are even throwing around the idea of an electronic turbo enable switch so that you wont need to run premium unless you enguage the boost, very nifty. So basically when you need extra power for towing you could flip a switch that would enable the boost. Cool huh?

What about a boost controller? Or do you think it's just better off with a switch? I can see with a closer to stock set up how a switch would be handy.

As for passing, etc, bingo you nailed it. I forgot to mention the reason that people would buy a turbo or supercharger would be to have that extra power for towing, passing, and simply for fun.

DavidA · 12-05-2005, 08:49 PM

Fun!

node · 12-05-2005, 08:58 PM

The 3.4L kit will have the stock boost set at 7psi and you can use a boost controller to raise the boost like you can with practically any turbo system. The 3.0 kit will probably have a 3 or 4 psi actuator. Again, you could use a boost controller to raise that to whatever you want once you do some fuel mods

.

The idea of a turbo dissable would basically be a solinoid to lock the wastegate open to improve gas mileage and keep the turbo from spooling. Thats just a possible additional thing for people who only want some extra kick once in a while. It may or may not be available bassed on the interest in that component.

The reason for the lower boost setting on the 3.0 kit is due to fueling issues. I have run 8 psi intercooled on my 5vz and I know the stock computer keeps everything under control but I have not used a turbo on the 3VZ yet. Several camry guys have done so with great success and very suprising power gains. I would like to verify what the stock ECU can handle before throwing a large amount of power at that engine.

Weasy2k · 12-05-2005, 11:59 PM

the 3vz in your 4runner is a different breed

the 3.slow the headgaskets in these were the biggest issue thats what prevented any turbo kit development as far as i know.

oh and i love your idea of locking wastegate open! You can have the little actuator controled by a piggyback or something too so when you swithc to map A you get boost and map b is economy mode

MTL_4runner · 12-06-2005, 07:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by node

The reason for the lower boost setting on the 3.0 kit is due to fueling issues. I have run 8 psi intercooled on my 5vz and I know the stock computer keeps everything under control but I have not used a turbo on the 3VZ yet. Several camry guys have done so with great success and very suprising power gains. I would like to verify what the stock ECU can handle before throwing a large amount of power at that engine.

What year computer are you running 8psi with?
Mine is a 1996 so that is likely the worst case and I wanted to be sure the computer could handle the boost safely.

Very smart to keep the boost lower on the 3VZ, even a few psi will be VERY noticable, yet much safer on those motors.

Weasy2k · 12-06-2005, 10:36 AM

Jamie,
i would always use some sort of piggy back controler to get the safest power out of the engine. You can see a thread abou tthe smt6 here in yotatech about that unit. That is what i have used in my 96 Tacoma for over 3 years and 50k km now supercharged at 10psi.s

node · 12-06-2005, 06:39 PM

Guys, I just wanted to let you see that we are actually working on this stuff. These are pics of one of the prototypes for the 5VZ-FE MR2 application. The welds are mig on the prototype but will be tig and much cleaner on the final product. As you can see the flanges are very clean. Those are the same flanges that will be used to produce the truck manifold.

Please excuse the dirty engine and car. It has been sitting outside awaiting a EMS, turbo etc..

Bumpin' Yota · 12-07-2005, 09:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by marko3xl3

3" would be too much. You'd only want to go to 2.5". With 3" you wouldn't have any backpressure which would kill your "UMPH" and it is questionable if your high end would remain stable either.

I know you nipped this in the bud Node, but I'd also like to address this.

The turbine in the hotside of the turbo gives your engine all the backpressure it could ever want (and then some) Once the exhuast passes by the turbine you will want the largest benificial downpipe you can get your hands on. The reason being it lowers EGTs That is reason enough - particularly for those of us playing around with 6+ Liters of turbo charged diesel power...

(this is why you see the duramaxx/cummins/powerstroke guys are dumping the stock 3"-3.5" exhausts for 5+" exhausts...

Anyhoo, this REALLY excites me, but at the same time makes me sad... My 3vze has 268,000 on the clock and ive maintained her meticulously but I have also driven her hard.... I want to do a kit like this, but honestly Im afraid to. I think Ill have to have the 3vze rebuilt or rebuild it myself first...unless I could get a kit and detune (deboost?) so that it only generates say 50 additional hp?

DavidA · 12-07-2005, 10:28 AM

Bumping...go with a 3.4l, I really think that is a better deal in the long run for you.

Just my 2 cents.

Bumpin' Yota · 12-07-2005, 06:05 PM

hahahaa if I swap it's getting a 383 with a 671 blower and a 4L80e, shift kit, 3000stall, and a moser 12bolt, 4link, with 4:55 gears!!

oh wait I havent won the lotto...damn nevermind..lol

Mr Tibbs · 12-07-2005, 06:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bumpin' Yota

hahahaa if I swap it's getting a 383 with a 671 blower and a 4L80e, shift kit, 3000stall, and a moser 12bolt, 4link, with 4:55 gears!!

oh wait I havent won the lotto...damn nevermind..lol

You haven't thought about this at all have you?

Weasy2k · 12-07-2005, 09:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bumpin' Yota

I know you nipped this in the bud Node, but I'd also like to address this.

The turbine in the hotside of the turbo gives your engine all the backpressure it could ever want (and then some) Once the exhuast passes by the turbine you will want the largest benificial downpipe you can get your hands on. The reason being it lowers EGTs That is reason enough - particularly for those of us playing around with 6+ Liters of turbo charged diesel power...

(this is why you see the duramaxx/cummins/powerstroke guys are dumping the stock 3"-3.5" exhausts for 5+" exhausts...

EGTS can be countered by using proper fueling as well

Timing control affects EGTs.....and believ it or not Water injection.

I doubt this 3" DP would create a HUGE enough effect at the boost its going to put out that you may really thing. Considering your looking at around 7-10psi...hell stock exhaust collectors and stock exhaust with 10psi supercharged really hits home too

But i moniter things with EGT gauge.

Weasy2k · 12-07-2005, 10:49 PM

And here is some input from toysrme......always there for some good information!
Gotta be split into 2....

[quote=Toysrme]
OK gonna hit on a bunch of things here in one post. It's long, so deal with it!

The best exhaust...... Is always no exhaust... The next best exhaust for a turbocharged vehicle is still no exhaust. The next best one for an N/A vehicle is one incorporating a tuned resonance chamber (Tuned pipe), where at a very small portion of an RPM range, a resonance will be created & who's pressure waves will help pull exhaust from the chamber.

Backpressure has some effect on EGT's, but your main concern with them is going to be the quality of your combustion in the chambers (a mix of fuel ratio, ignition, cam timing).

Let's all remember that anything 2.5" & bigger from the downpipe back is gonna be "big enough" for the most part. Anything more is candy. The less post turbine restriction, the better. Now... Start playing with your merge & uppipe size, and you can make some real interesting stuff happen!

The 3vz-e compression ratio is only 9:1 (Compared to the 9.6 on VZ block FE heads). Using a CT-26 off a Mark3 Supra (stock wastegate 5psi). The peak effective compression ratio is only going come up to 9.58:1 compression ratio! That's only the stock vz-fe compression ratio! (9.6:1)
(For comparison, a 3vz-e with heads warped out of spec that are milled back to flat is going to get a bump to around 9.6:1!)
10psi would result in an 11.5:1 CR.
(The math I used: Assuming the 3vz-e has a peak volumetric efficiency of 80%. Worse case, if the peak VE is 85%, the CR bumps to 10:1 for 5psi, 12.5:1CR @ 10psi. It's not normal for SOHC 2 valve engines to be more than 80% efficient stock, but there's the result if you're interested.

With concerning blowing head gaskets, the big thing under boost is how much the effective compression ratio rises. At these boost levels on that engine, there really isn't a problem to worry over. Such a minor bump in CR wouldn't hurt anything that's in good shape to begin with. (Remember psi doesn't make power! The mass of the charge does! A larger turbo @ low psi will be able to kill a small one @ high psi, at the expensive of response! Because the chosen CT-26's are not small turbos & not huge - they can provide lots of power, quickly, at relatively low psi.)

In my opinion, if a compression test shows 155psi on the lowest cylinder, the rings, valves & valve timing are all up to a turbo. Down past 150 would be OK, but I'd want to find out where the compression is going. Put some oil in the cylinder & retest. (If pressure goes up bigtime, the rings have some wear, otherwise leakage @ the valves. Obviously, abnormally low compression between cylinders, or on a single cylinder normally spells a head gasket problem!)
Toyota specs:
Normal 171psi
Low 142psi
No more than 14psi difference

********************
The boost controller idea for 0 boost I would avoid. The turbine & compressor wheel can be large restrictions in flow when they're not "pulling their own weight". Keep in mind that even tho a turbo is not making "positive" psig, that doesn't mean it's not doing anything. Letting the turbo spool around is a good thing for economy. Tho their airflow is exponentially better as the RPM rises (& it normally takes a few ten thousand rpm to make good positive psi), that's not the whole story. Where you may be making 8-5inHG ov vacuum just cruising down the highway N/A, with a turbo it may go on up to 0inHg & kick into positive with a light load (like going up a hill).
If they're not allowed to pay for themselves like that, you're going to wind up with worse mileage with the turbo. Being able to partly spool (& decrease vacuum, or go ahead & spool into a few psi under an engine load - at light-medium throttle) is what ensures that a turbo will provide the same economy, if not a bit more under certain conditions!

ENd of first half

Weasy2k · 12-07-2005, 10:50 PM

********************

Personally, if it's imperative to run lower than stock wastegate settings, I think it would be better to simply lower boost (remaining positive, not 0psi) - then use a ball valve restrictor & solenoid to vent boost to make whatever higher psi you want.
1) Modify the wastegate actuator rod to be smaller. The best example is to run the rod through a die so it's threaded. Then use a nuts & washers to hold the spring, and thus hold the wastegate rod under tension.
This in turn will lower boost for pennies!!!
(You can see in the example pics how it works.)

2) You can get very complex combinations of a ballvalve, pop valve (To keep pressure from the wastegate at all until it reaches a level - eleminating wastegate creep & cutting spool time down) & solenoids to make complex boost controls for semi-cheap. Or make one that's really cheap & just has two settings. Low & high psi.
Here is how I do it. (It's the common way.)

It's pretty obvious how it works. The restrictor lowers the size of the bleed you need to control boost. The solenoid is opened or closed electrically, saving people from routing boost hoses & such into the cab. The check valve is just for safety incase the solenoid leaks a little bit under vacuum. The ball valve controls how much boost is bleed off - controlling the your boost!
Variations:
You can have a basic electronic control using a boost pressure switch to control the solenoid - keep in mind it's gonna vary a bit from one way to another.
You can add more solenoid/restrictor loops to varry boost further.
Whatever.

Anyway, you could fairly easily adjust it to have say 3psi & 7psi. Obviously do whatever you want.

********************

I really see no problem running the stock 5psi wastegate & a ct-26 from a Supra on a 3vz-e. The mr2's turbo is going to choke off quickly on the v6. The only good reason to use it would be the twin entry housing & smaller A/R to spool faster.
But like stated several times, any medium sized turbo is going to spool instantly - as soon as you hit the gas, (or a big load hits the engine) count a couple tenths of a second & you've got positive manifold pressure.

Also, to make good power on the mr2 turbo, that means running more psi - which is the main concern of the 3vz-e crowd (Honestly, the main concern of anyone without the revised Metal Head Gaskets - i.e. early 5vz-fe owners also fall into that bunch!!!). While the supra ct26 will make plenty of power & lower psi levels - much safer for the head gaskets.

A 3vz-e @ a 12:1 A/F ratio is going to want 33lb/m to make roughly 280bhp.
38lb/m will make about 320bhp. A CT-26 off a supra flows about 33lb/m @ just 5psi.
I would expect anywhere between 280 & 300bhp on a 3vz-e+Supra CT-26. That's perfect!!! 3vz-e parts are not the strongest of the v6s, but they're far stronger than 3s-fe parts. The parts are plenty fine for atleast 350bhp before there is much chance of random catastrophic failures & 350 is a little conservative guesstimate.

In short, there is not going to be a more perfect marriage than the 3vz-e with the Supra's CT-26 @ the stock 5psi! It's going to be heaven between [b]zero]/b] lag, little spool time, huge torque & horsepower powerbands, lots of peak power, & pleanty of headroom for later.

********************

Fueling OBD-I is way easy because closed-loop doesn't tune as much & any closed loop changes don't carry over to open-loop.
Most of the time, you wind up with a "hole" before an engine goes into open loop mode. This is because you can have power without being in open-loop. Ask anyone with an N/A supercharger, or a turbo that can spool below 4000rpm. If you see an A/F graph against a dyno plot, barring very, very good tuning (The kind NOT achieved at your local dyno shop, because:
1) They normally suck at tuning - yes... I said it & it's TRUE!!!
2) A dyno is not a great representation of what happens when driving.
You almost always wind up with atleast 1000, maybe 1500rpm+ of boost - without additional fuel!
The perfect example of both points I just made & that OBD-II is nasty! An OBD-II 5s-fte. (3s-gte manifold & turbo on a 5s-fe) tuned with an SAFC II by a tuning shop - on a dyno.

The turbo is spooling under 3000rpm (Don't forget it has a torque convertor!).
Yet fueling for boost doesn't come down to cracking 12's until long after throttle transition & boost have occurred! About 1500rpm of the engine having a load, having bosot & higher than normal power output.
This would be OK to drive around on, but any amount of flogging over time is going to lead in melting pistons, or rings. They just can't take that!

The problem, is having to balance when you add fuel. Too early & the ECU corrects for it (& OBD-II will carry corrections into open loop, making the whole thing lean). Too late & you're simply running lean! Conditions are also always changing & never the same! it can be a difficult problem.
With OBD-I it's no big deal! By simply using a boost pressure switch (Or an output linked to manifold pressure on a piggyback) set at say 2psi (3psi if you boost while cruising alot). Have it trigger a STDP relay that feeds the TPS supply voltage back to the ECU.
This get's the ECU into open-loop mode anytime boost is present, with side affects of:
Throttle transition = slightly enriching the mixture (on it's own), adding a couple steps of timing for a short amount of timing (DO NOT WORRYECU steps are normally in .25, or .5 * of crankshaft rotation, not 1 full degree!)
Transmission shift logic operates as if the throttle is all the way down.
Nothing but good comes from this & the TPS signal won't be read "out of spec" because the voltage is wildly too high.
Now that open-loop is present anytime enough boost is present to requiring fueling - you simply map your piggyback to fuel for the amount of boost -WITHOUT worrying about the RPM, or TPS signal being too low & having a tuning hole!
I will say, this makes very, very short work of fuel tuning for boost on OBD-I. With an SMT6, you can simply leave the stock setup intact & run extra injector<s>, tuned only via boost (MAP sensor, or if you're really cheap ass... A few BPS's @ different psi.) have ignition retard via boost. Then you've got a choice. Use the analog screen to tune the AFM some, OR use it to tune the lambda sensor<s>. While the AFM would be "traditional", changing the lambda sensors would be so slick it's crazy.
Regardless of the map you run, (Because remember we're tuning fuel based on boost! It's not a static correction!!!) You could lean out the engine some, then have closed loop tuning richen up for getting into boost. Possible combinations & neat-o applications are nearly endless!

Fuel correction for a 3vz-e is easy. This is how I did it & do it on 3vz-fe's.
The 3vz-e comes with injectors rated for 200cc @ 41psi. The stock fueling - like most Toyota's, runs between low & high 30's.
1) Walbro 190
2) Fuel pressure regulator setting pressure base pressure to 60psi. (A cheapie off ebay that just raises base fuel pressure, & a 1:1 ratio under boost works good.)
3) Piggyback capable of GOOD TUNING. SMT-7's E-Manage Gold & new unichips are nice, but not required.
Bare minimum for a good setup is going to be buying an SMT-6, or an upgraded E-Manage. (Otherwise you get into buying lots of separate hardware. SAFC + MSD6 + blah blah blah & still NOT have the amount of options) SMT-6 is a little harder to use than an E-Manage, but does a lot more & you don't have to waste money buying "upgrades". SMT-6 does everything it can do out of the box.(I'm not a fan of FTC's. They don't live tune, They only do two things, they're hella expensive. They loose from every angle you look at them - so I don't like them compared to their competition. That does [b]NOT[.b] mean they don't work well - The competition is just better & better for the money.)
4) Extra injector<s>. Best to have low imp.
*The stock pumps suck - like all stock wide spread N/A Toyota pumps. They just don't flow enough & die at high pressure. A 225+ is nice, but a 190 is all you need to make 400bhp+. A 255 is a waste of $10 & causes that much more re-tuning.
*The 200cc injectors become 240cc injectors @ 60psi.
*A good piggyback handles ignition retard under boost, along with any fuel tuning.
Quick fuel math 'cause you can learn to do the "real math" on your own time & this is normally accurate to within a few percent in the worst case. (Normally less than 1.5%.)
Injector flow /5 = horsepower capable of flowing * # of injectors
Then take 90% of that because you don't want to run an injector @ 100% duration.
200/5*6*.9= 216bhp worth of fuel. Stock
240/5*6*.9= 259bhp worth of fuel @ 60psi
I would go with 1 550, or 2 300'ish cc injectors.
550cc @ 60psi = 649cc, 649/5*.9 = 116bhp
300cc @ 60psi = 360cc, 300/5*.9 = 54bhp (times 2)
259bhp+116bhp = 375bhp worth of fuel. That's pleeeeeeeeanty of overhead for a CT-26 @ 5psi!
Let's turn around & say you only get 210bhp of fueling from the stock system, You've still got over 320bhp worth of fuel left. Nothing another 5psi of base fuel pressure & some minor piggyback tweaking can't take care of.

Now I'd like to throw something else out there... I love doing this trick I'm gonna sharing for two reasons:
1) Safety.
2) It works regardless of anything else.
Get on ebay & buy a boost pressure switch, AND a cold-start injector off a 3vz. (If you're doing the TPS trick I shared earlier, you've already got a BPS set at 2-3psi & you don't need to buy anything else!) Anytime there is much boost, you'll get either 18bhp worth of fuel (75cc @ 60psi, CSI's have 100% duration), or 36bhp worth of fuel (150cc @ 60psi).
This adds a measure of safety against leaning out while tuning, leaning out if there is some other screw-up & adds even more head room above & beyond anything else.
You can also have the BPS fire the stock cold-start injector (I think yall 3vz-e's have them too, I don't remember). Keep in mind, that the distribution from the stock CSI is highly uneven because of it's location & orientation.
Also, when adding injectors, they never spray towards a wall. Either fire them at an angle with the air stream, or better yet fire them INTO the incoming air stream.

Adding injectors is not complicated. CSI's are just drill your hole, take a couple of sheet metal screws & put dabs of silicon sealer (RTV) on them & go at it. (Works on both metal & rubber!)
Regular injectors can be trickier, but there is no reason to make them out to be hard to install. You can easily drill out a plate (or scrap of wood - please seal the wood with something first!) & epoxy / JB Weld it to the injector. Then use the same method to secure it (Drill the hole for the injector out, then use sheet metal screws t secure it - sealing it with RTV before finishing).

Anywho, That's what I think, & if I were doing another 3vz-te tomorrow, that's exactly how I'd set it up. SMT-6, extra injectors & ignition tuned off a MAP sensor (It can be just a 2bar.), BPS triggering open loop (via TPS) & firing a CSI @ low psi, and tuning LAMBDA (You can use the AFM cog to tweak the stock injectors if needed), how the fuel strategy would work.
& the components (CT-26 off a supra).
[/quote]

THat is all

11-28-2005, 10:22 PM	#52 (permalink)
node Registered User Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Blue Ridge Mountains NC Posts: 177	Good news! The first batch of laser cut flanges will be done tomorrow. I will have head, turbo input and, downpipe flanges all ready to start assembly of a new prototype as soon as I get this MR2 out of the way. I will take picks of the manifolds so you guys can see how the work is progressing along the way. I'm certainly not going to argue that the turbo will make boost as low as the supercharger, it wont, not THIS system anyway. It is possible to choose a turbo that will have positive pressure at idle just like the SC. My twin turbo 5VZ had TDO4's with the 5cm housings and it had instantaneous boost response. There was zero spool time. Like everything though, there was a trade off. The tiny turbos choked the engine in the upper rpms. It actually felt just like the SC. The kit will still spool low enough so you wont fall out of the boost range when 4wheeling. Especially you 3.0 guys that will be getting the smaller AR turbine housing. The 3.4L doesn't really need too much help down low, so it will receive the large AR supra housing or even a T4. Up top is where the motor is grasping for breath. That's where I would like to see the turbo at its optimum flow. I plan to try several different compressor sizes and may offer the smaller compressor wheels for those who want really fast responce. You will be reaping the benefits of all the experimentation I have been doing with these motors over the last year (4 different sets of manifolds LOL). I'm fairly confident in using these compressors with the 5VZ and I will provide dyno numbers of the turbos at several different boost settings with the stock fuel system. Like I said earlier, I will also install a few different compressor sections and record the results with each. As for the 3.0 I will have to spend some more time with the engine. I know that fuel is going to have to be addressed and I have a test vehicle to play around with. Unfortunately its an auto transmission so it may not give accurate dyno numbers. Im still looking for a MT 3.0 truck locally to install a kit on. __________________ Building back yard supercars since 2003 . Current Projects: 3.4L Turbo V6 4runner 3.4L Turbo V6 TRD2000 MR2 3.4L Turbo V6 Sleeper MR2 2.5L RB25 Powered S13 Nissan 4.0L 1UZ-FE V8 MR2 axelsnapper Last edited by node; 11-28-2005 at 10:24 PM.

11-29-2005, 09:07 AM	#53 (permalink)
tour4fun Registered User Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Los Angeles Posts: 204	Node - what steel are you making the headers out of ? __________________ I never thought the turbo could get any better, then ...... Unmolested 2008 Runner

11-29-2005, 01:22 PM	#54 (permalink)
DavidA Contributing Member Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Fort Worth, TX Posts: 919	So Node...I have a good friend in Knoxville,TN that I want to visit...doesn't look too much farther to your area. Might be nice to have you install a turbo for me. (grin) __________________ 2002 Stellar Blue 4Runner Sport Edition Cold Air Intake Magnaflow Exhaust Iridium Sparkplugs Kenwood KDC-MP628 Blaupunkt Separates in all of the doors Two RF P2002 amps Kenwood 12" Subwoofer My baby: Pics

11-29-2005, 04:47 PM	#55 (permalink)
node Registered User Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Blue Ridge Mountains NC Posts: 177	David, We would love for you to come by the shop. Knoxville isnt exactly around the corner though. But if you are driving from texas anway ehh. tour4fun: the manifolds will initially be offered only in mild s40 but david wants to produce some in stainless. I have been using the thick wall stuff for over a year now and have not cracked it even once so I would reccomend using the same materials since they have proven to hold up. At least untill I get a chance to test the stainless over an extended period of time. I got some new parts in for one of the 5VZ-FE turbo motor projects at the shop check em out --->Pic One Pic Two __________________ Building back yard supercars since 2003 . Current Projects: 3.4L Turbo V6 4runner 3.4L Turbo V6 TRD2000 MR2 3.4L Turbo V6 Sleeper MR2 2.5L RB25 Powered S13 Nissan 4.0L 1UZ-FE V8 MR2 axelsnapper

11-30-2005, 09:25 AM	#56 (permalink)
PowerMac4Ever Registered User Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Chicago, IL Posts: 17	node, your 5VZ-powered MR2 is very impressive to say the least! You do some amazing work. I personally would be interested in a turbo manifold if it came with a T4 flange and a pipe to run an external wastegate. __________________ 1998 SR5 V6 4x4 1993.5 Supra Twin Turbo

11-30-2005, 10:32 PM	#57 (permalink)
node Registered User Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Blue Ridge Mountains NC Posts: 177	While one off versions would be easy to produce, I would prefer this to just be a simple mass produced manifold to start with. That will make things easy for myself and my welder. The problem with fitting different flanges on there is that each turbo has a different housing shape. Some are clockwise, others are not. I know you are familiar with this PowerMac. I found a 3VZ 4runner to do the test fitting on for the 3.0 kit so its possible to make you an kit. Well see. I should have pics of all the flanges and parts tomorrow if I have time to run by the shop and snap a few. __________________ Building back yard supercars since 2003 . Current Projects: 3.4L Turbo V6 4runner 3.4L Turbo V6 TRD2000 MR2 3.4L Turbo V6 Sleeper MR2 2.5L RB25 Powered S13 Nissan 4.0L 1UZ-FE V8 MR2 axelsnapper

12-05-2005, 07:52 PM	#58 (permalink)
node Registered User Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Blue Ridge Mountains NC Posts: 177	Update: The laser cut flanges are ready for the manifolds. I have completed the MR2 5VZ manifolds and Im now ready to start prototyping a truck mani. Looks like we need at least 3 to 4 hours with a rig to get all the fabbing done on the first manifold. Im looking for local volenteers who can be without their truck for a full day. Heres a pic of the turbo input and output flanges And here the size of the downpipe can bee seen. Its 3" inner diameter but I will also produce some with stock exhaust sizes for those who have to pass emissions __________________ Building back yard supercars since 2003 . Current Projects: 3.4L Turbo V6 4runner 3.4L Turbo V6 TRD2000 MR2 3.4L Turbo V6 Sleeper MR2 2.5L RB25 Powered S13 Nissan 4.0L 1UZ-FE V8 MR2 axelsnapper Last edited by node; 12-05-2005 at 07:54 PM.

12-05-2005, 08:21 PM	#59 (permalink)
oly884 Contributing Member Join Date: Dec 2002 Posts: 4,703	The only thing i see about superchargers and turbochargers off road is... Do you really need THAT much power? You have to realize HOW much tourqe you have in 4-low. Ask yourself, do you need more? The power isn't needed for off road stuff, unless you are racing. I have never been in 4-low and needed more power. If you do, just get lower gears. Node, I am VERY interested in this, but it'll be a while till i can get the $$$ to buy a kit.

12-05-2005, 08:35 PM	#60 (permalink)
node Registered User Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Blue Ridge Mountains NC Posts: 177	Several of the board members are working with me to produce the kit. Once I have a prototype made up for the manifold, they will immediatly be available just like the 5VZ MR2 Turbo manifold is now. The "kit" will take a little more time. www.MR2Guru.com has agreed to distribute the 4runner, prerunner and T100 manifolds and kit once they are available. That way you guys can buy these parts from a respected, well established buissness. They are about to redo their website to include toyota trucks oly884, you are correct, through gearing you dont need more power in 4L but if you are towing somthing big or just want to pass when going uphill the extra torque and horsepower will be VERY noticeable. We are even throwing around the idea of an electronic turbo enable switch so that you wont need to run premium unless you enguage the boost, very nifty. So basically when you need extra power for towing you could flip a switch that would enable the boost. Cool huh? __________________ Building back yard supercars since 2003 . Current Projects: 3.4L Turbo V6 4runner 3.4L Turbo V6 TRD2000 MR2 3.4L Turbo V6 Sleeper MR2 2.5L RB25 Powered S13 Nissan 4.0L 1UZ-FE V8 MR2 axelsnapper

12-05-2005, 08:37 PM	#61 (permalink)
Weasy2k Registered User Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Vancouver, Canada Posts: 968	keep it up man! __________________ -Johnny --------------------------------- '96 Taco V6 4WD Auto with 262 S2S Cams New 5VZ-FE & 3VZ-E Cams available 5vz-fe Stock CR FI Pistons NOW available! www.sea2skytuning.com Plug and Play EMS! Perfect Power, Hydra EMS, Arias, Pauter, Manley Performance Dealer....

12-05-2005, 08:49 PM	#63 (permalink)
DavidA Contributing Member Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Fort Worth, TX Posts: 919	Fun! __________________ 2002 Stellar Blue 4Runner Sport Edition Cold Air Intake Magnaflow Exhaust Iridium Sparkplugs Kenwood KDC-MP628 Blaupunkt Separates in all of the doors Two RF P2002 amps Kenwood 12" Subwoofer My baby: Pics

12-05-2005, 08:58 PM	#64 (permalink)
node Registered User Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Blue Ridge Mountains NC Posts: 177	The 3.4L kit will have the stock boost set at 7psi and you can use a boost controller to raise the boost like you can with practically any turbo system. The 3.0 kit will probably have a 3 or 4 psi actuator. Again, you could use a boost controller to raise that to whatever you want once you do some fuel mods . The idea of a turbo dissable would basically be a solinoid to lock the wastegate open to improve gas mileage and keep the turbo from spooling. Thats just a possible additional thing for people who only want some extra kick once in a while. It may or may not be available bassed on the interest in that component. The reason for the lower boost setting on the 3.0 kit is due to fueling issues. I have run 8 psi intercooled on my 5vz and I know the stock computer keeps everything under control but I have not used a turbo on the 3VZ yet. Several camry guys have done so with great success and very suprising power gains. I would like to verify what the stock ECU can handle before throwing a large amount of power at that engine. __________________ Building back yard supercars since 2003 . Current Projects: 3.4L Turbo V6 4runner 3.4L Turbo V6 TRD2000 MR2 3.4L Turbo V6 Sleeper MR2 2.5L RB25 Powered S13 Nissan 4.0L 1UZ-FE V8 MR2 axelsnapper Last edited by node; 12-05-2005 at 09:00 PM.

12-05-2005, 11:59 PM	#65 (permalink)
Weasy2k Registered User Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Vancouver, Canada Posts: 968	the 3vz in your 4runner is a different breed the 3.slow the headgaskets in these were the biggest issue thats what prevented any turbo kit development as far as i know. oh and i love your idea of locking wastegate open! You can have the little actuator controled by a piggyback or something too so when you swithc to map A you get boost and map b is economy mode __________________ -Johnny --------------------------------- '96 Taco V6 4WD Auto with 262 S2S Cams New 5VZ-FE & 3VZ-E Cams available 5vz-fe Stock CR FI Pistons NOW available! www.sea2skytuning.com Plug and Play EMS! Perfect Power, Hydra EMS, Arias, Pauter, Manley Performance Dealer....

12-06-2005, 10:36 AM	#67 (permalink)
Weasy2k Registered User Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Vancouver, Canada Posts: 968	Jamie, i would always use some sort of piggy back controler to get the safest power out of the engine. You can see a thread abou tthe smt6 here in yotatech about that unit. That is what i have used in my 96 Tacoma for over 3 years and 50k km now supercharged at 10psi.s __________________ -Johnny --------------------------------- '96 Taco V6 4WD Auto with 262 S2S Cams New 5VZ-FE & 3VZ-E Cams available 5vz-fe Stock CR FI Pistons NOW available! www.sea2skytuning.com Plug and Play EMS! Perfect Power, Hydra EMS, Arias, Pauter, Manley Performance Dealer....

12-06-2005, 06:39 PM	#68 (permalink)
node Registered User Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Blue Ridge Mountains NC Posts: 177	Guys, I just wanted to let you see that we are actually working on this stuff. These are pics of one of the prototypes for the 5VZ-FE MR2 application. The welds are mig on the prototype but will be tig and much cleaner on the final product. As you can see the flanges are very clean. Those are the same flanges that will be used to produce the truck manifold. Please excuse the dirty engine and car. It has been sitting outside awaiting a EMS, turbo etc.. __________________ Building back yard supercars since 2003 . Current Projects: 3.4L Turbo V6 4runner 3.4L Turbo V6 TRD2000 MR2 3.4L Turbo V6 Sleeper MR2 2.5L RB25 Powered S13 Nissan 4.0L 1UZ-FE V8 MR2 axelsnapper Last edited by node; 12-06-2005 at 09:03 PM.

12-07-2005, 06:05 PM	#71 (permalink)
Bumpin' Yota Registered User Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Sarasota, FL Posts: 3,639	hahahaa if I swap it's getting a 383 with a 671 blower and a 4L80e, shift kit, 3000stall, and a moser 12bolt, 4link, with 4:55 gears!! oh wait I havent won the lotto...damn nevermind..lol __________________ 3vze, 4x4, sr5, 90, auto, LSD 2x dB Drag World Finalist 2003 Nopi Nat. Street B champ 2004 SBN Street C champ 2004 SBN Advncd NW Champ 2004 Former WR Holder in NW. SPL: 159.8db @ 42hz In loving memory of Jamie Riggs 5/15/85 - 10/8/04 Last edited by Bumpin' Yota; 12-07-2005 at 06:07 PM.

12-07-2005, 10:28 AM	#70 (permalink)
DavidA Contributing Member Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Fort Worth, TX Posts: 919	Bumping...go with a 3.4l, I really think that is a better deal in the long run for you. Just my 2 cents. __________________ 2002 Stellar Blue 4Runner Sport Edition Cold Air Intake Magnaflow Exhaust Iridium Sparkplugs Kenwood KDC-MP628 Blaupunkt Separates in all of the doors Two RF P2002 amps Kenwood 12" Subwoofer My baby: Pics

12-07-2005, 10:49 PM	#74 (permalink)
Weasy2k Registered User Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Vancouver, Canada Posts: 968	And here is some input from toysrme......always there for some good information! Gotta be split into 2.... [quote=Toysrme] OK gonna hit on a bunch of things here in one post. It's long, so deal with it! The best exhaust...... Is always no exhaust... The next best exhaust for a turbocharged vehicle is still no exhaust. The next best one for an N/A vehicle is one incorporating a tuned resonance chamber (Tuned pipe), where at a very small portion of an RPM range, a resonance will be created & who's pressure waves will help pull exhaust from the chamber. Backpressure has some effect on EGT's, but your main concern with them is going to be the quality of your combustion in the chambers (a mix of fuel ratio, ignition, cam timing). Let's all remember that anything 2.5" & bigger from the downpipe back is gonna be "big enough" for the most part. Anything more is candy. The less post turbine restriction, the better. Now... Start playing with your merge & uppipe size, and you can make some real interesting stuff happen! The 3vz-e compression ratio is only 9:1 (Compared to the 9.6 on VZ block FE heads). Using a CT-26 off a Mark3 Supra (stock wastegate 5psi). The peak effective compression ratio is only going come up to 9.58:1 compression ratio! That's only the stock vz-fe compression ratio! (9.6:1) (For comparison, a 3vz-e with heads warped out of spec that are milled back to flat is going to get a bump to around 9.6:1!) 10psi would result in an 11.5:1 CR. (The math I used: Assuming the 3vz-e has a peak volumetric efficiency of 80%. Worse case, if the peak VE is 85%, the CR bumps to 10:1 for 5psi, 12.5:1CR @ 10psi. It's not normal for SOHC 2 valve engines to be more than 80% efficient stock, but there's the result if you're interested. With concerning blowing head gaskets, the big thing under boost is how much the effective compression ratio rises. At these boost levels on that engine, there really isn't a problem to worry over. Such a minor bump in CR wouldn't hurt anything that's in good shape to begin with. (Remember psi doesn't make power! The mass of the charge does! A larger turbo @ low psi will be able to kill a small one @ high psi, at the expensive of response! Because the chosen CT-26's are not small turbos & not huge - they can provide lots of power, quickly, at relatively low psi.) In my opinion, if a compression test shows 155psi on the lowest cylinder, the rings, valves & valve timing are all up to a turbo. Down past 150 would be OK, but I'd want to find out where the compression is going. Put some oil in the cylinder & retest. (If pressure goes up bigtime, the rings have some wear, otherwise leakage @ the valves. Obviously, abnormally low compression between cylinders, or on a single cylinder normally spells a head gasket problem!) Toyota specs: Normal 171psi Low 142psi No more than 14psi difference ******************** The boost controller idea for 0 boost I would avoid. The turbine & compressor wheel can be large restrictions in flow when they're not "pulling their own weight". Keep in mind that even tho a turbo is not making "positive" psig, that doesn't mean it's not doing anything. Letting the turbo spool around is a good thing for economy. Tho their airflow is exponentially better as the RPM rises (& it normally takes a few ten thousand rpm to make good positive psi), that's not the whole story. Where you may be making 8-5inHG ov vacuum just cruising down the highway N/A, with a turbo it may go on up to 0inHg & kick into positive with a light load (like going up a hill). If they're not allowed to pay for themselves like that, you're going to wind up with worse mileage with the turbo. Being able to partly spool (& decrease vacuum, or go ahead & spool into a few psi under an engine load - at light-medium throttle) is what ensures that a turbo will provide the same economy, if not a bit more under certain conditions! ENd of first half __________________ -Johnny --------------------------------- '96 Taco V6 4WD Auto with 262 S2S Cams New 5VZ-FE & 3VZ-E Cams available 5vz-fe Stock CR FI Pistons NOW available! www.sea2skytuning.com Plug and Play EMS! Perfect Power, Hydra EMS, Arias, Pauter, Manley Performance Dealer.... Last edited by Weasy2k; 12-07-2005 at 10:55 PM.

12-07-2005, 10:50 PM	#75 (permalink)
Weasy2k Registered User Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Vancouver, Canada Posts: 968	****************** Personally, if it's imperative to run lower than stock wastegate settings, I think it would be better to simply lower boost (remaining positive, not 0psi) - then use a ball valve restrictor & solenoid to vent boost to make whatever higher psi you want. 1) Modify the wastegate actuator rod to be smaller. The best example is to run the rod through a die so it's threaded. Then use a nuts & washers to hold the spring, and thus hold the wastegate rod under tension. This in turn will lower boost for pennies!!! (You can see in the example pics how it works.) 2) You can get very complex combinations of a ballvalve, pop valve (To keep pressure from the wastegate at all until it reaches a level - eleminating wastegate creep & cutting spool time down) & solenoids to make complex boost controls for semi-cheap. Or make one that's really cheap & just has two settings. Low & high psi. Here is how I do it. (It's the common way.) It's pretty obvious how it works. The restrictor lowers the size of the bleed you need to control boost. The solenoid is opened or closed electrically, saving people from routing boost hoses & such into the cab. The check valve is just for safety incase the solenoid leaks a little bit under vacuum. The ball valve controls how much boost is bleed off - controlling the your boost! Variations: You can have a basic electronic control using a boost pressure switch to control the solenoid - keep in mind it's gonna vary a bit from one way to another. You can add more solenoid/restrictor loops to varry boost further. Whatever. Anyway, you could fairly easily adjust it to have say 3psi & 7psi. Obviously do whatever you want. **************** I really see no problem running the stock 5psi wastegate & a ct-26 from a Supra on a 3vz-e. The mr2's turbo is going to choke off quickly on the v6. The only good reason to use it would be the twin entry housing & smaller A/R to spool faster. But like stated several times, any medium sized turbo is going to spool instantly - as soon as you hit the gas, (or a big load hits the engine) count a couple tenths of a second & you've got positive manifold pressure. Also, to make good power on the mr2 turbo, that means running more psi - which is the main concern of the 3vz-e crowd (Honestly, the main concern of anyone without the revised Metal Head Gaskets - i.e. early 5vz-fe owners also fall into that bunch!!!). While the supra ct26 will make plenty of power & lower psi levels - much safer for the head gaskets. A 3vz-e @ a 12:1 A/F ratio is going to want 33lb/m to make roughly 280bhp. 38lb/m will make about 320bhp. A CT-26 off a supra flows about 33lb/m @ just 5psi. I would expect anywhere between 280 & 300bhp on a 3vz-e+Supra CT-26. That's perfect!!! 3vz-e parts are not the strongest of the v6s, but they're far stronger than 3s-fe parts. The parts are plenty fine for atleast 350bhp before there is much chance of random catastrophic failures & 350 is a little conservative guesstimate. In short, there is not going to be a more perfect marriage than the 3vz-e with the Supra's CT-26 @ the stock 5psi! It's going to be heaven between [b]zero]/b] lag, little spool time, huge torque & horsepower powerbands, lots of peak power, & pleanty of headroom for later. **************** Fueling OBD-I is way easy because closed-loop doesn't tune as much & any closed loop changes don't carry over to open-loop. Most of the time, you wind up with a "hole" before an engine goes into open loop mode. This is because you can have power without being in open-loop. Ask anyone with an N/A supercharger, or a turbo that can spool below 4000rpm. If you see an A/F graph against a dyno plot, barring very, very good tuning (The kind NOT achieved at your local dyno shop, because: 1) They normally suck at tuning - yes... I said it & it's TRUE!!! 2) A dyno is not a great representation of what happens when driving. You almost always wind up with atleast 1000, maybe 1500rpm+ of boost - without additional fuel! The perfect example of both points I just made & that OBD-II is nasty! An OBD-II 5s-fte. (3s-gte manifold & turbo on a 5s-fe) tuned with an SAFC II by a tuning shop - on a dyno. The turbo is spooling under 3000rpm (Don't forget it has a torque convertor!). Yet fueling for boost doesn't come down to cracking 12's until long after throttle transition & boost have occurred! About 1500rpm of the engine having a load, having bosot & higher than normal power output. This would be OK to drive around on, but any amount of flogging over time is going to lead in melting pistons, or rings. They just can't take that! The problem, is having to balance when you add fuel. Too early & the ECU corrects for it (& OBD-II will carry corrections into open loop, making the whole thing lean). Too late & you're simply running lean! Conditions are also always changing & never the same! it can be a difficult problem. With OBD-I it's no big deal! By simply using a boost pressure switch (Or an output linked to manifold pressure on a piggyback) set at say 2psi (3psi if you boost while cruising alot). Have it trigger a STDP relay that feeds the TPS supply voltage back to the ECU. This get's the ECU into open-loop mode anytime boost is present, with side affects of: Throttle transition = slightly enriching the mixture (on it's own), adding a couple steps of timing for a short amount of timing (DO NOT WORRYECU** steps are normally in .25, or .5 * of crankshaft rotation, not 1 full degree!) Transmission shift logic operates as if the throttle is all the way down. Nothing but good comes from this & the TPS signal won't be read "out of spec" because the voltage is wildly too high. Now that open-loop is present anytime enough boost is present to requiring fueling - you simply map your piggyback to fuel for the amount of boost -WITHOUT worrying about the RPM, or TPS signal being too low & having a tuning hole! I will say, this makes very, very short work of fuel tuning for boost on OBD-I. With an SMT6, you can simply leave the stock setup intact & run extra injector<s>, tuned only via boost (MAP sensor, or if you're really cheap ass... A few BPS's @ different psi.) have ignition retard via boost. Then you've got a choice. Use the analog screen to tune the AFM some, OR use it to tune the lambda sensor<s>. While the AFM would be "traditional", changing the lambda sensors would be so slick it's crazy. Regardless of the map you run, (Because remember we're tuning fuel based on boost! It's not a static correction!!!) You could lean out the engine some, then have closed loop tuning richen up for getting into boost. Possible combinations & neat-o applications are nearly endless! Fuel correction for a 3vz-e is easy. This is how I did it & do it on 3vz-fe's. The 3vz-e comes with injectors rated for 200cc @ 41psi. The stock fueling - like most Toyota's, runs between low & high 30's. 1) Walbro 190 2) Fuel pressure regulator setting pressure base pressure to 60psi. (A cheapie off ebay that just raises base fuel pressure, & a 1:1 ratio under boost works good.) 3) Piggyback capable of GOOD TUNING. SMT-7's E-Manage Gold & new unichips are nice, but not required. Bare minimum for a good setup is going to be buying an SMT-6, or an upgraded E-Manage. (Otherwise you get into buying lots of separate hardware. SAFC + MSD6 + blah blah blah & still NOT have the amount of options) SMT-6 is a little harder to use than an E-Manage, but does a lot more & you don't have to waste money buying "upgrades". SMT-6 does everything it can do out of the box.(I'm not a fan of FTC's. They don't live tune, They only do two things, they're hella expensive. They loose from every angle you look at them - so I don't like them compared to their competition. That does [b]NOT[.b] mean they don't work well - The competition is just better & better for the money.) 4) Extra injector<s>. Best to have low imp. The stock pumps suck - like all stock wide spread N/A Toyota pumps. They just don't flow enough & die at high pressure. A 225+ is nice, but a 190 is all you need to make 400bhp+. A 255 is a waste of $10 & causes that much more re-tuning. The 200cc injectors become 240cc injectors @ 60psi. A good piggyback handles ignition retard under boost, along with any fuel tuning. Quick fuel math* 'cause you can learn to do the "real math" on your own time & this is normally accurate to within a few percent in the worst case. (Normally less than 1.5%.) Injector flow /5 = horsepower capable of flowing * # of injectors Then take 90% of that because you don't want to run an injector @ 100% duration. 200/56.9= 216bhp worth of fuel. Stock 240/56.9= 259bhp worth of fuel @ 60psi I would go with 1 550, or 2 300'ish cc injectors. 550cc @ 60psi = 649cc, 649/5.9 = 116bhp 300cc @ 60psi = 360cc, 300/5.9 = 54bhp (times 2) 259bhp+116bhp = 375bhp worth of fuel. That's pleeeeeeeeanty of overhead for a CT-26 @ 5psi! Let's turn around & say you only get 210bhp of fueling from the stock system, You've still got over 320bhp worth of fuel left. Nothing another 5psi of base fuel pressure & some minor piggyback tweaking can't take care of. Now I'd like to throw something else out there... I love doing this trick I'm gonna sharing for two reasons: 1) Safety. 2) It works regardless of anything else. Get on ebay & buy a boost pressure switch, AND a cold-start injector off a 3vz. (If you're doing the TPS trick I shared earlier, you've already got a BPS set at 2-3psi & you don't need to buy anything else!) Anytime there is much boost, you'll get either 18bhp worth of fuel (75cc @ 60psi, CSI's have 100% duration), or 36bhp worth of fuel (150cc @ 60psi). This adds a measure of safety against leaning out while tuning, leaning out if there is some other screw-up & adds even more head room above & beyond anything else. You can also have the BPS fire the stock cold-start injector (I think yall 3vz-e's have them too, I don't remember). Keep in mind, that the distribution from the stock CSI is highly uneven because of it's location & orientation. Also, when adding injectors, they never spray towards a wall. Either fire them at an angle with the air stream, or better yet fire them INTO the incoming air stream. Adding injectors is not complicated. CSI's are just drill your hole, take a couple of sheet metal screws & put dabs of silicon sealer (RTV) on them & go at it. (Works on both metal & rubber!) Regular injectors can be trickier, but there is no reason to make them out to be hard to install. You can easily drill out a plate (or scrap of wood - please seal the wood with something first!) & epoxy / JB Weld it to the injector. Then use the same method to secure it (Drill the hole for the injector out, then use sheet metal screws t secure it - sealing it with RTV before finishing). Anywho, That's what I think, & if I were doing another 3vz-te tomorrow, that's exactly how I'd set it up. SMT-6, extra injectors & ignition tuned off a MAP sensor (It can be just a 2bar.), BPS triggering open loop (via TPS) & firing a CSI @ low psi, and tuning LAMBDA (You can use the AFM cog to tweak the stock injectors if needed), how the fuel strategy would work. & the components (CT-26 off a supra). [/quote] THat is all __________________ -Johnny --------------------------------- '96 Taco V6 4WD Auto with 262 S2S Cams New 5VZ-FE & 3VZ-E Cams available 5vz-fe Stock CR FI Pistons NOW available! www.sea2skytuning.com Plug and Play EMS! Perfect Power, Hydra EMS, Arias, Pauter, Manley Performance Dealer....

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