Feeler: 3.4L TURBO manifold group buy?

node · 11-24-2005, 12:16 PM

This week I have been working on another 5VZ Turbo swap into an MR2. I am welding up two more sets of single turbo manifolds with T4 flanges ETC (two motors worth). This got me thinking, every V6 swap I have done has been turbocharged. I wonder how many people would be interested in putting a turbo on their trucks.

So, If I had a "kit" available for the 3.4L how many people (Given good quality pics etc) would buy one today. The kit would include replacement manifolds, possibly a turbo and perhaps even a downpipe. Of course it would require a battery relocation since the turbo would sit up high near the battery and the intake would be exactly where the battery sits. This would help avoid water ingestion (for you off road guys). The kit would be designed as a non intercooled setup running 7 psi but could easily be intercooled with some more pipe.

What would you be willing to pay for a kit with the eventual potential of just above 300bhp and full boost available at ~2800 RPMs? Im trying to estimate if volume production would make these affordable. Im looking for lots of input here

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node · 11-24-2005, 01:02 PM

While I would have the manifolds available by themselves, I have several turbos that I would be able to offer with a kit.

For example, the prooven CT-26 toyota supra turbo. Used or rebuilt.

Or the popular TO4E upgrade.

I have lots of these in stock at MR2guru so using them would be ideal for a kit. What do you guys think? I like the idea of theToyota name on the turbo.

tc · 11-24-2005, 07:32 PM

Make a kit for the 3.0 and you wouldn't be able to keep them in stock...

node · 11-24-2005, 09:40 PM

Im working on my first turbo 3.0 3VZ soon. I could produce a 3.0 version since the engines arent all that different. I was under the impression that the stock computer didnt handlle the boost as well as the 5VZ does. How much supercharged boost can the 3.0 handle on the stock ECU and injectors?

ChickenLover · 11-24-2005, 10:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tc

Make a kit for the 3.0 and you wouldn't be able to keep them in stock...

Man, I was thinking the same thing.

Ric · 11-24-2005, 10:17 PM

please educate me:
whats the difference between a Supercharger and Turbo ?
whats easier on the motor ?
whats gives more power ?
whats easier or cheaper to install ?
do you have to run Premium fiel with the Turbo ?
about how much would the Turbo cost ?
and,
"about" how much more power over stock will this have ?

etc. etc. etc.

node · 11-24-2005, 10:20 PM

The auto transmission on the 5VZ would have no noteable influence on the install. The manifold mainly sits in the stock location. The system will run over the back of the engine just like it does on the stock system. It would feed forward instead of down like the stock pipes do. I may reverse the fow on the passenger side manifold so that there is only one path for the exhaust gasses (similar to the Nissan VQ30 300zx). This all depends on how many people are interested though. The more I feel people want the kit, the more time I will invest in making a clean setup.

I have already spent the money developing the flanges (header, turbo, and downpipe) for my MR2 swaps, so thats already done. The parts are sitting here in stacks just waiting to be fabbed up, either for trucks or MR2 swaps. I have built many one off setups before but, this would be mass produced on a jig. There simply isnt enough demand from the camry, celica and MR2 guys for 3.4L kits. But, all you guys with rigs may just justify a few weeks developement

node · 11-24-2005, 11:51 PM

whats the difference between a Supercharger and Turbo ?
Turbos run much hotter since they are powered by the exhaust. In this application the ECU actually doesent know there is a differencec between the two.

whats easier on the motor ?
The turbo uses waste energy to spin so there is no direct drag on the pully system to run it.

whats gives more power ?
Because there is no drag on the engine turbos (if sized correctly) typically make slightly more HP per pound of boost. You dont have the instantanious responce of the supercharger though. Basically, you trade instant torque for more total HP

whats easier or cheaper to install ?
TURBO is less costly without a doubt. Unless you find a very good deal on a used supercharger. Again this is a trade off. Installing a turbo requires more work and perhaps fabrication depending on what is included.

do you have to run Premium fiel with the Turbo ?
Absolutely, its just like a supercharger. I would also reccomend 1 step colder spark plugs.

about how much would the Turbo cost ?
Depends on the turbo. Junk yard turbos can be found for very little. Supra A turbos from the 3.0L MK3 supra are available for well below $300 including the wastegate actuator and oil lines.

and, "about" how much more power over stock will this have ?
I had about 260 out of my last setup but that was with an intercooler running very mild boost. With the correct supporting mods there is no reason that this kit couldent WELL beyond that. 300 would be attainable with fuel mods and an intercooler.

HUTCHSTACO · 11-24-2005, 11:59 PM

what are you thinking for cost on a complete kit

Bob_98SR5 · 11-25-2005, 12:12 AM

i'd be interested, but not fully committed until i see a little more detail and pics. i dont know much about turbos, so some edjumacation is definitely in order. and thanks for responding to ric's questions

oh yeah, it would have to have:

- bolt on/off w/o fabrication
- options (like intercoolers, etc)
- tech specs, install instructions ,etc

bob

garrett1478 · 11-25-2005, 12:18 AM

i must say, this is pretty sweet, but im like the others and dont know a lot...

what kind of risks would there be installing a turbo? you mentioned it runs much hotter than a supercharger? how does this affect other parts of the vehicle?

as bob mentioned, i like the idea of bolt on/off so its removable in case of the need to return to stock

node · 11-25-2005, 12:52 AM

If I put a kit together everything will be bolt on with the exception of the oil pan return. There is a possibility of using the tapped portion of the block where the other dipstick fitting goes as a return for the oil supply so that would be a simple plug and play thing too.. For the kit, I would do a wrightup and also a video much the same as I did for this V6 swap http://www.mr2board.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1467

As far a price goes, a full kit would be well less than a new TRD supercharger by itself. I cant be too exact because I dont know how many people are interested yet. I can tell you that I already have used Ct-26 - A turbos available for $250 +/- depending on mileage with fittings and wastegate actuators. My MR2 manifolds sell for around $350 but the truck version will require more materials and labor so expect a price just beyond $400 using some of your existing parts (again prices decrease with volume). The downpipes are roughly $200 and you will need to see an exhaust shop to have them fitted to your exhaust system. You should be able to keep the stock catylist system intact (I need to look closer at this though). Hoses, oil lines and fittings will likely cost at least another $200. So we could have a complete kit for around US $1200 give or take a hundred.

The system will be 100% compatible with the stock ECU both manual transmission and auto. I have tested the auto ECU to 8psi but would not go beyond that since the injectors cant really handle the flow requirements at 8 psi.

Toysrme · 11-25-2005, 03:50 AM

Node, 3vz-e ecu is actually pretty easy to work with. All the OBD-I ECU's are dreams with piggybacks. (I got 680's to run "OK" on a 3vz-e & 720's on my 3vz-fe)
(Open loop / cloosed loop OL/CL)
Because they don't use fuel trim in OL, they can't change OL, and it's closed loop not only is not as sensative - but it is easily defeated - it won't suffer from the problems OBD-II does. & has more advantages than even most smart people realize AFA tuning "big dumb changes". LoL!

Guys, questions like "how much boost", or "how much power" are going to fall under an irrelevant, or unanswerable answer the way most people ask the questions. So I'd like to take this opportunity to stomp them now so they don't get out of hand flooding node with questions. (No offince, common questions, that's why I'm shooting them in the foot before they're are bunches of them)

1) power is a direct function of the mass of the charge the engine can inhale - not what pressure it's at. Pressure is important (later on) but extremely mis-understood & mostly irrelevant when you're talking power between setups.

2) power production is entirly open ended. It could be anything you want to make it, because you can sling anything on you want slung on (that will fit within reason). As with #1 your mileage is going to varry widly based off what you choose & how you run it. While one compressor may move 50 horsepower worth of air @ 30psi, another may make 15,000 @ 5psi.

Power is an unanswerable question - without a specific question asked. Don't go crazy asking about power output until you've read a few basic forced induction guides (turbo, supercharger - anything helps - just google a few! Takes 5 min to read & understand the majority of the basics.)

That being said CT-26's are large node. Two supra CT-26's would wind up being well over 600bhp @ 10psi on any of the car dohc v6's. Most likely well over 500bhp @ just 5psi.

Node I think you should just cop out & grab your generic t3 flanges & weld them on. You can size them down to 42/48's, up to 60/48, 60/63 & super 60/63. Or even go t3/t04e hybrid (avoid t04b like the plauge - ancient things - nasty blaaaaah). t3's are really cheap too. (Not that my new ct-26 off ebay isn't in a dirty - but mint condition & $66 LoL!)
I've done the math a billion times for the 3.0L v6's (3vzfe / 1mzfe)
That t3 flange list when you go twin turbo sports everything between 260bhp - 440bhp stock t3's, & 700bhp for a T04E-60. That's just 1 bar of boost (14.7psi). Assuming the grunt & turbine side to spool the turbos to a good capacity, and flow that amount of exhaust.

I just think t3's would give a waaaaay better fit in most regards. (Sizing, compatibility, avalibility, price, part & misc fittings avalibility.)

MTL_4runner · 11-25-2005, 06:10 AM

Node, it seems as though you have been doing this for a while and it has been fun to see you hammer out a great setup for your MR2. You are certainly perking my interest on a turbo kit too, but I wanted to ask how a turbo will affect torque vs HP. On my vehicle I am really after more torque for quicker accels, decent passing power on the highway (when needed) and up hills and hopefully something that won't completely kill my gas mileage at cruise speed. Keeping in mind these are going in trucks not cars.

So given that scenario, would you suggest that I be steering more towards a turbo kit or a TRD supercharger?

Any issues with running turbos in very cold temps?
I see -40 almost every winter up here.

Another suggestion, most people will have trouble with doing alot of fabbing so may I suggest that you sell all exhaust manifolds etc prefabbed if possible so people can chose to buy or make as needed. It would also be a HUGE plus to make sure the system is compatible with the stock ECU and injectors without leanout/detonation issues. I am probably not alone when I say I am not looking for the max power this motor could make, rather just to give it a little kick in the tail when I need it. I would probably lean towards a quick spooling turbo since I don't need max power, but I want it to approximate a S/C as best I could. I love that turbo sound too!

......I still can't get over how cheap those turbos are!

Ric · 11-25-2005, 06:13 AM

MTL_4runner,
thank you,,

Quote:

I wanted to ask how a turbo will affect torque vs HP. On my vehicle I am really after more torque for quicker accels, decent passing power on the highway (when needed) and up hills

thats what i was trying to get at, and thats what i need..

95-Superlift4runner · 11-25-2005, 09:36 AM

If Node actually got into production a single turbo unit, that would be incredible.

Non-intercooled? That would fix the problem with swapping out motors for more power, and everyone could stick to the hearty 3vz they are used to.

You could be a very popular guy Node, but im sure it would take alot of work to get there. Interested to see how, if anything, it turns out. Stay with us amigo

X2and4X · 11-25-2005, 09:44 AM

IMO the turbo lag would suck offroad.

MTL_4runner · 11-25-2005, 10:14 AM

For you 3.0L guys I have only seen one turbo'd before:

http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/showt...threadid=39571

Someone had made a turbo kit for the 3.4L but the turbo placement was horrible.

rimpainter.com · 11-25-2005, 10:41 AM

For those of you looking for a bolt-on / bolt-off affair, I just don't think it's going to happen. If node can figure out the oil return line thing (without tapping into the oil pan) you will still have to saw off your crossover pipe to get the old manifolds off. I guess all I am saying is be prepared NOT to be able to go back to stock - unless you get some headers or find another crossover somewhere.

There is just no way to get that stupid crossover off unless you pull the engine or use a sawzall on it. Something to keep in mind.

Sounds like a cool idea node! I hope some people jump on board.

Weasy2k · 11-25-2005, 10:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by yota5VZFE

OK guys, let's talk about long term reliability of this turbo kit vs. the TRD supercharger + 7th injector kit. I know that TRD has a pretty good warranty on the supercharger and the injector kit if they are installed by a Toyota dealer. Now, here is the big question, what is the warranty of this turbo kit ? Let's say if I install this turbo kit and it becomes defective in 2 to 3 years from the date that it is installed, can you provide a FREE replacement ? also, will this turbo kit cause engine damage to my 5VZFE over the long term ? How reliable is this turbo kit vs. the TRD supercharger ?

You really think toyota would replace the trd s/c in 3 years...i would love to see that! even 2 years...as far as i know unless you have a BRAND new truck covered under factory warrenty and u get them to instlal the s/c you still have the warrnety of the truck. However if you have a 96 and install it youg et 1 year done...

Turbos are reliable and the CT26's are amazing 150-200k+ km turbos!

Node has make some great leaps in playing aroudn wiht turbos ont eh 5vz and if i wasnt doing soemthing myself i would buy a couple...(i have lots of 5vz's coming in

)

Weasy2k · 11-25-2005, 10:51 AM

Also from Toysrme:

The 1mz-fe also has little low end power to spool a turbo with. Much less than a 3vz-fe, a couple times less than a 5vz-fe & probably a little bit more than a 3vz-e (I'm guessing, I've still never seen a 3vz-e dyno!)

Stock 3.0L TRD Supercharger @ 4psi 1mz-fe
SAFC
JIC Bullet Cat Back Exhaust System

Complete joke for $2500 that runs lean enouhg to kill the stock engine! (No wonder it went out of production 3 times!)

6psi TRD Supercharger 1mz-fe (6.0LBS boost pulley from PULLEY BOYS)
JP Performance exhaust system Header on back Cat-back system
Apexi SAFC II controller
Jim Foreign Affair Fuel system upgrade kit
Injen intake + CAI extension

Peak Torque 227lb-ft @ 3500rpm.

stock CT-26 @ 10psi 1mz-fe
intake
SAFC + FPU
stock exhaust (from the cat back)

260fl-lb @ 3500rpm. Peak torque @ 270ft-lb @ around 4150-4200.

Lag is going to be non-existent. It's simply waiting for a turbo to spool into positive & what about spool time? That's why god created a torque convertor - to Cover up any amount of spool time a turbo has. LoL!
(The car convertors stall @ 2400-2500rpm, if yalls is even close to the same - you'll get the same result)
You step on the gas - the engine jumps by itself - the turbo is spooled by the quick engine increase.

-Toysrme

node · 11-25-2005, 12:05 PM

Thanks Toysrme

The manifold is going to be for a single turbo NOT twins. Sorry I wasn't clear about that. A single CT-26 A Or inexpensive T3 would be ideal. My estimates for this kit are all bassed on the 3.4L DOHC engine. With the 3.0 3VZ-e you would be looking at a little less spool. My estimate would be full boost by 3000+ on a 3vz. On the 5vz you should see full boost before 3k easy. For the 3.4L the wastegate actuator included would be for 7psi.

As far as gas mileage goes, the turbo will have a better MPG vs the supercharger. Toysrme how much more fuel does the fuel system in the 3VZ-e have available. Basically, at what point are the injectors at 85 - 90% DS with the supercharger? That would help me figure out what turbo would best be suited to this application.

As far as where the torque is added in the power band, that totaly depends on the turbocharger you choose. Most important in that is the AR on the turbine side. There are several different housings available with the CT-26 if you want to keep it all toyota

boraxman · 11-25-2005, 05:50 PM

I would buy one,,my only reservation however is CARB(Calif. Air Resourse Board), would you be going for certifcation? I need to pass smog.

DavidA · 11-25-2005, 09:22 PM

I am very interested. Could someone with a decent mechanic helping him install your kit very easily?

This kit is exactly what I am looking for. I have a 2WD auto that sometimes needs a little more hp on the highway. I will never go offroad, but I want it to go a little quicker sometimes.

Ric · 11-25-2005, 09:47 PM

X2and4X,
i personally wouldnt get it for "off-roading" i would want one to get the mountain easier/quicker, not sure about anyone else, but then again im looking into re-gearing, so we will see, regeard "and" a turbo ? maybe i could get up them darn hills pretty easy then. lol

11-24-2005, 01:02 PM	#2 (permalink)
node Registered User Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Blue Ridge Mountains NC Posts: 177	While I would have the manifolds available by themselves, I have several turbos that I would be able to offer with a kit. For example, the prooven CT-26 toyota supra turbo. Used or rebuilt. Or the popular TO4E upgrade. I have lots of these in stock at MR2guru so using them would be ideal for a kit. What do you guys think? I like the idea of theToyota name on the turbo. __________________ Building back yard supercars since 2003 . Current Projects: 3.4L Turbo V6 4runner 3.4L Turbo V6 TRD2000 MR2 3.4L Turbo V6 Sleeper MR2 2.5L RB25 Powered S13 Nissan 4.0L 1UZ-FE V8 MR2 axelsnapper

11-24-2005, 07:32 PM	#3 (permalink)
tc Contributing Member Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Longmont, CO Posts: 8,368	Make a kit for the 3.0 and you wouldn't be able to keep them in stock... __________________ Check out www.coTTORA.org to hook up with great Toyota 'wheelin' folks! Current - 93 4Runner: 3VZ 33"x10.50" no lift ARB F/R 96 Impala SS: My own personal cop car Previous - 89 2WD Pickup 22R, Fabtech "Ivan Dan" lift, 31x10.50, IASCA World Finals 4th Place Stop with the mods and get on the trail! Pix at www.4wheelingoh.shutterfly.com/action

11-24-2005, 09:40 PM	#4 (permalink)
node Registered User Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Blue Ridge Mountains NC Posts: 177	Im working on my first turbo 3.0 3VZ soon. I could produce a 3.0 version since the engines arent all that different. I was under the impression that the stock computer didnt handlle the boost as well as the 5VZ does. How much supercharged boost can the 3.0 handle on the stock ECU and injectors? __________________ Building back yard supercars since 2003 . Current Projects: 3.4L Turbo V6 4runner 3.4L Turbo V6 TRD2000 MR2 3.4L Turbo V6 Sleeper MR2 2.5L RB25 Powered S13 Nissan 4.0L 1UZ-FE V8 MR2 axelsnapper

11-24-2005, 10:17 PM	#6 (permalink)
Ric Banned - User requested Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: earth Posts: 4,494	please educate me: whats the difference between a Supercharger and Turbo ? whats easier on the motor ? whats gives more power ? whats easier or cheaper to install ? do you have to run Premium fiel with the Turbo ? about how much would the Turbo cost ? and, "about" how much more power over stock will this have ? etc. etc. etc. Last edited by Ric; 11-24-2005 at 10:24 PM.

11-24-2005, 10:20 PM	#7 (permalink)
node Registered User Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Blue Ridge Mountains NC Posts: 177	The auto transmission on the 5VZ would have no noteable influence on the install. The manifold mainly sits in the stock location. The system will run over the back of the engine just like it does on the stock system. It would feed forward instead of down like the stock pipes do. I may reverse the fow on the passenger side manifold so that there is only one path for the exhaust gasses (similar to the Nissan VQ30 300zx). This all depends on how many people are interested though. The more I feel people want the kit, the more time I will invest in making a clean setup. I have already spent the money developing the flanges (header, turbo, and downpipe) for my MR2 swaps, so thats already done. The parts are sitting here in stacks just waiting to be fabbed up, either for trucks or MR2 swaps. I have built many one off setups before but, this would be mass produced on a jig. There simply isnt enough demand from the camry, celica and MR2 guys for 3.4L kits. But, all you guys with rigs may just justify a few weeks developement __________________ Building back yard supercars since 2003 . Current Projects: 3.4L Turbo V6 4runner 3.4L Turbo V6 TRD2000 MR2 3.4L Turbo V6 Sleeper MR2 2.5L RB25 Powered S13 Nissan 4.0L 1UZ-FE V8 MR2 axelsnapper

11-24-2005, 11:51 PM	#8 (permalink)
node Registered User Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Blue Ridge Mountains NC Posts: 177	whats the difference between a Supercharger and Turbo ? Turbos run much hotter since they are powered by the exhaust. In this application the ECU actually doesent know there is a differencec between the two. whats easier on the motor ? The turbo uses waste energy to spin so there is no direct drag on the pully system to run it. whats gives more power ? Because there is no drag on the engine turbos (if sized correctly) typically make slightly more HP per pound of boost. You dont have the instantanious responce of the supercharger though. Basically, you trade instant torque for more total HP whats easier or cheaper to install ? TURBO is less costly without a doubt. Unless you find a very good deal on a used supercharger. Again this is a trade off. Installing a turbo requires more work and perhaps fabrication depending on what is included. do you have to run Premium fiel with the Turbo ? Absolutely, its just like a supercharger. I would also reccomend 1 step colder spark plugs. about how much would the Turbo cost ? Depends on the turbo. Junk yard turbos can be found for very little. Supra A turbos from the 3.0L MK3 supra are available for well below $300 including the wastegate actuator and oil lines. and, "about" how much more power over stock will this have ? I had about 260 out of my last setup but that was with an intercooler running very mild boost. With the correct supporting mods there is no reason that this kit couldent WELL beyond that. 300 would be attainable with fuel mods and an intercooler. __________________ Building back yard supercars since 2003 . Current Projects: 3.4L Turbo V6 4runner 3.4L Turbo V6 TRD2000 MR2 3.4L Turbo V6 Sleeper MR2 2.5L RB25 Powered S13 Nissan 4.0L 1UZ-FE V8 MR2 axelsnapper Last edited by node; 11-24-2005 at 11:53 PM.

11-24-2005, 11:59 PM	#9 (permalink)
HUTCHSTACO Contributing Member Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Bellevue, Washington Posts: 1,044	what are you thinking for cost on a complete kit

11-25-2005, 12:12 AM	#10 (permalink)
Bob_98SR5 Contributing Member Join Date: May 2002 Location: Los Angeles Posts: 10,092	i'd be interested, but not fully committed until i see a little more detail and pics. i dont know much about turbos, so some edjumacation is definitely in order. and thanks for responding to ric's questions oh yeah, it would have to have: - bolt on/off w/o fabrication - options (like intercoolers, etc) - tech specs, install instructions ,etc bob Last edited by Bob_98SR5; 11-25-2005 at 12:14 AM.

11-25-2005, 12:18 AM	#11 (permalink)
garrett1478 Banned Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 0	i must say, this is pretty sweet, but im like the others and dont know a lot... what kind of risks would there be installing a turbo? you mentioned it runs much hotter than a supercharger? how does this affect other parts of the vehicle? as bob mentioned, i like the idea of bolt on/off so its removable in case of the need to return to stock Last edited by garrett1478; 11-25-2005 at 12:48 AM.

11-25-2005, 12:52 AM	#12 (permalink)
node Registered User Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Blue Ridge Mountains NC Posts: 177	If I put a kit together everything will be bolt on with the exception of the oil pan return. There is a possibility of using the tapped portion of the block where the other dipstick fitting goes as a return for the oil supply so that would be a simple plug and play thing too.. For the kit, I would do a wrightup and also a video much the same as I did for this V6 swap http://www.mr2board.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1467 As far a price goes, a full kit would be well less than a new TRD supercharger by itself. I cant be too exact because I dont know how many people are interested yet. I can tell you that I already have used Ct-26 - A turbos available for $250 +/- depending on mileage with fittings and wastegate actuators. My MR2 manifolds sell for around $350 but the truck version will require more materials and labor so expect a price just beyond $400 using some of your existing parts (again prices decrease with volume). The downpipes are roughly $200 and you will need to see an exhaust shop to have them fitted to your exhaust system. You should be able to keep the stock catylist system intact (I need to look closer at this though). Hoses, oil lines and fittings will likely cost at least another $200. So we could have a complete kit for around US $1200 give or take a hundred. The system will be 100% compatible with the stock ECU both manual transmission and auto. I have tested the auto ECU to 8psi but would not go beyond that since the injectors cant really handle the flow requirements at 8 psi. __________________ Building back yard supercars since 2003 . Current Projects: 3.4L Turbo V6 4runner 3.4L Turbo V6 TRD2000 MR2 3.4L Turbo V6 Sleeper MR2 2.5L RB25 Powered S13 Nissan 4.0L 1UZ-FE V8 MR2 axelsnapper Last edited by node; 11-25-2005 at 01:00 AM.

11-25-2005, 03:50 AM	#13 (permalink)
Toysrme Registered User Join Date: Jun 2004 Posts: 271	Node, 3vz-e ecu is actually pretty easy to work with. All the OBD-I ECU's are dreams with piggybacks. (I got 680's to run "OK" on a 3vz-e & 720's on my 3vz-fe) (Open loop / cloosed loop OL/CL) Because they don't use fuel trim in OL, they can't change OL, and it's closed loop not only is not as sensative - but it is easily defeated - it won't suffer from the problems OBD-II does. & has more advantages than even most smart people realize AFA tuning "big dumb changes". LoL! Guys, questions like "how much boost", or "how much power" are going to fall under an irrelevant, or unanswerable answer the way most people ask the questions. So I'd like to take this opportunity to stomp them now so they don't get out of hand flooding node with questions. (No offince, common questions, that's why I'm shooting them in the foot before they're are bunches of them) 1) power is a direct function of the mass of the charge the engine can inhale - not what pressure it's at. Pressure is important (later on) but extremely mis-understood & mostly irrelevant when you're talking power between setups. 2) power production is entirly open ended. It could be anything you want to make it, because you can sling anything on you want slung on (that will fit within reason). As with #1 your mileage is going to varry widly based off what you choose & how you run it. While one compressor may move 50 horsepower worth of air @ 30psi, another may make 15,000 @ 5psi. Power is an unanswerable question - without a specific question asked. Don't go crazy asking about power output until you've read a few basic forced induction guides (turbo, supercharger - anything helps - just google a few! Takes 5 min to read & understand the majority of the basics.) That being said CT-26's are large node. Two supra CT-26's would wind up being well over 600bhp @ 10psi on any of the car dohc v6's. Most likely well over 500bhp @ just 5psi. Node I think you should just cop out & grab your generic t3 flanges & weld them on. You can size them down to 42/48's, up to 60/48, 60/63 & super 60/63. Or even go t3/t04e hybrid (avoid t04b like the plauge - ancient things - nasty blaaaaah). t3's are really cheap too. (Not that my new ct-26 off ebay isn't in a dirty - but mint condition & $66 LoL!) I've done the math a billion times for the 3.0L v6's (3vzfe / 1mzfe) That t3 flange list when you go twin turbo sports everything between 260bhp - 440bhp stock t3's, & 700bhp for a T04E-60. That's just 1 bar of boost (14.7psi). Assuming the grunt & turbine side to spool the turbos to a good capacity, and flow that amount of exhaust. I just think t3's would give a waaaaay better fit in most regards. (Sizing, compatibility, avalibility, price, part & misc fittings avalibility.) __________________ AIM/Yahoo/ICQ - Toysrme257th PM for anything, anytime; including v6 turbos! BoostPic! Last edited by Toysrme; 11-25-2005 at 03:52 AM.

11-25-2005, 06:10 AM	#14 (permalink)
MTL_4runner Contributing Member Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Montreal, QC Canada Posts: 8,807	Node, it seems as though you have been doing this for a while and it has been fun to see you hammer out a great setup for your MR2. You are certainly perking my interest on a turbo kit too, but I wanted to ask how a turbo will affect torque vs HP. On my vehicle I am really after more torque for quicker accels, decent passing power on the highway (when needed) and up hills and hopefully something that won't completely kill my gas mileage at cruise speed. Keeping in mind these are going in trucks not cars. So given that scenario, would you suggest that I be steering more towards a turbo kit or a TRD supercharger? Any issues with running turbos in very cold temps? I see -40 almost every winter up here. Another suggestion, most people will have trouble with doing alot of fabbing so may I suggest that you sell all exhaust manifolds etc prefabbed if possible so people can chose to buy or make as needed. It would also be a HUGE plus to make sure the system is compatible with the stock ECU and injectors without leanout/detonation issues. I am probably not alone when I say I am not looking for the max power this motor could make, rather just to give it a little kick in the tail when I need it. I would probably lean towards a quick spooling turbo since I don't need max power, but I want it to approximate a S/C as best I could. I love that turbo sound too! ......I still can't get over how cheap those turbos are! __________________ - Jamie 1996 4Runner SR5 4X4 Auto Deckplate Mod, Hayden Tranny Cooler, Amsoil Air Filter, OME 881/906 N86C/N91SC Lift Best OBD II scan tool I have used!. .....and I am AMERICAN! Last edited by MTL_4runner; 11-25-2005 at 06:23 AM.

11-25-2005, 09:36 AM	#16 (permalink)
95-Superlift4runner Registered User Join Date: Nov 2005 Posts: 40	If Node actually got into production a single turbo unit, that would be incredible. Non-intercooled? That would fix the problem with swapping out motors for more power, and everyone could stick to the hearty 3vz they are used to. You could be a very popular guy Node, but im sure it would take alot of work to get there. Interested to see how, if anything, it turns out. Stay with us amigo

11-25-2005, 09:44 AM	#17 (permalink)
X2and4X Registered User Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Des Moines, IA Posts: 564	IMO the turbo lag would suck offroad. __________________ CALL BEFORE YOU DIG. Make my job easier. Please. Bryan 99' 4runner SR5 4WD/81' Vanagon Westfalla ed.

11-25-2005, 10:14 AM	#18 (permalink)
MTL_4runner Contributing Member Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Montreal, QC Canada Posts: 8,807	For you 3.0L guys I have only seen one turbo'd before: http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/showt...threadid=39571 Someone had made a turbo kit for the 3.4L but the turbo placement was horrible. __________________ - Jamie 1996 4Runner SR5 4X4 Auto Deckplate Mod, Hayden Tranny Cooler, Amsoil Air Filter, OME 881/906 N86C/N91SC Lift Best OBD II scan tool I have used!. .....and I am AMERICAN! Last edited by MTL_4runner; 11-25-2005 at 10:18 AM.

11-25-2005, 05:50 PM	#23 (permalink)
boraxman Registered User Join Date: May 2004 Location: So. Cal. Posts: 190	I would buy one,,my only reservation however is CARB(Calif. Air Resourse Board), would you be going for certifcation? I need to pass smog. __________________ '96 Tacoma 4x4 SR5 Xcab 3.4 5spd ARB Rear Locker Bilstein Shocks Center Line Wheels w/ Cepek FC2's Deckplate & ISR Mods K&N Filter JBA SS Cat-Back System B&M Short Throw Shifter(I like it) Alpine Sound System w/ XM Radio

11-25-2005, 10:41 AM	#19 (permalink)
rimpainter.com Contributing Member Join Date: Jan 2003 Posts: 10,797	For those of you looking for a bolt-on / bolt-off affair, I just don't think it's going to happen. If node can figure out the oil return line thing (without tapping into the oil pan) you will still have to saw off your crossover pipe to get the old manifolds off. I guess all I am saying is be prepared NOT to be able to go back to stock - unless you get some headers or find another crossover somewhere. There is just no way to get that stupid crossover off unless you pull the engine or use a sawzall on it. Something to keep in mind. Sounds like a cool idea node! I hope some people jump on board. __________________ www.rimpainter.com Get your O Gasket Mod Here! My SC'd 4Runner's Profile My YouTube vids

11-25-2005, 10:51 AM	#21 (permalink)
Weasy2k Registered User Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Vancouver, Canada Posts: 968	Also from Toysrme: The 1mz-fe also has little low end power to spool a turbo with. Much less than a 3vz-fe, a couple times less than a 5vz-fe & probably a little bit more than a 3vz-e (I'm guessing, I've still never seen a 3vz-e dyno!) Stock 3.0L TRD Supercharger @ 4psi 1mz-fe SAFC JIC Bullet Cat Back Exhaust System Complete joke for $2500 that runs lean enouhg to kill the stock engine! (No wonder it went out of production 3 times!) 6psi TRD Supercharger 1mz-fe (6.0LBS boost pulley from PULLEY BOYS) JP Performance exhaust system Header on back Cat-back system Apexi SAFC II controller Jim Foreign Affair Fuel system upgrade kit Injen intake + CAI extension Peak Torque 227lb-ft @ 3500rpm. stock CT-26 @ 10psi 1mz-fe intake SAFC + FPU stock exhaust (from the cat back) 260fl-lb @ 3500rpm. Peak torque @ 270ft-lb @ around 4150-4200. Lag is going to be non-existent. It's simply waiting for a turbo to spool into positive & what about spool time? That's why god created a torque convertor - to Cover up any amount of spool time a turbo has. LoL! (The car convertors stall @ 2400-2500rpm, if yalls is even close to the same - you'll get the same result) You step on the gas - the engine jumps by itself - the turbo is spooled by the quick engine increase. -Toysrme __________________ -Johnny --------------------------------- '96 Taco V6 4WD Auto with 262 S2S Cams New 5VZ-FE & 3VZ-E Cams available 5vz-fe Stock CR FI Pistons NOW available! www.sea2skytuning.com Plug and Play EMS! Perfect Power, Hydra EMS, Arias, Pauter, Manley Performance Dealer....

11-25-2005, 12:05 PM	#22 (permalink)
node Registered User Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Blue Ridge Mountains NC Posts: 177	Thanks Toysrme The manifold is going to be for a single turbo NOT twins. Sorry I wasn't clear about that. A single CT-26 A Or inexpensive T3 would be ideal. My estimates for this kit are all bassed on the 3.4L DOHC engine. With the 3.0 3VZ-e you would be looking at a little less spool. My estimate would be full boost by 3000+ on a 3vz. On the 5vz you should see full boost before 3k easy. For the 3.4L the wastegate actuator included would be for 7psi. As far as gas mileage goes, the turbo will have a better MPG vs the supercharger. Toysrme how much more fuel does the fuel system in the 3VZ-e have available. Basically, at what point are the injectors at 85 - 90% DS with the supercharger? That would help me figure out what turbo would best be suited to this application. As far as where the torque is added in the power band, that totaly depends on the turbocharger you choose. Most important in that is the AR on the turbine side. There are several different housings available with the CT-26 if you want to keep it all toyota __________________ Building back yard supercars since 2003 . Current Projects: 3.4L Turbo V6 4runner 3.4L Turbo V6 TRD2000 MR2 3.4L Turbo V6 Sleeper MR2 2.5L RB25 Powered S13 Nissan 4.0L 1UZ-FE V8 MR2 axelsnapper

11-25-2005, 09:22 PM	#24 (permalink)
DavidA Contributing Member Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Fort Worth, TX Posts: 919	I am very interested. Could someone with a decent mechanic helping him install your kit very easily? This kit is exactly what I am looking for. I have a 2WD auto that sometimes needs a little more hp on the highway. I will never go offroad, but I want it to go a little quicker sometimes. __________________ 2002 Stellar Blue 4Runner Sport Edition Cold Air Intake Magnaflow Exhaust Iridium Sparkplugs Kenwood KDC-MP628 Blaupunkt Separates in all of the doors Two RF P2002 amps Kenwood 12" Subwoofer My baby: Pics

11-25-2005, 09:47 PM	#25 (permalink)
Ric Banned - User requested Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: earth Posts: 4,494	X2and4X, i personally wouldnt get it for "off-roading" i would want one to get the mountain easier/quicker, not sure about anyone else, but then again im looking into re-gearing, so we will see, regeard "and" a turbo ? maybe i could get up them darn hills pretty easy then. lol

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