Patrick D

Ok, I have drooled over the different brands on Corey's Exhaust page for too long now!

What straight-thru mufflers do you guys recommend? I have been listening to the Dynomax for awhile and like that sound but I was told its a turbo muffler so there is less Torque/HP gains.

Or do you guys believe I should just upgrade to a cat-back system? Money is an issue though, so i would rather not blow money when I could get the same results with the right muffler.

Any suggestions?

-Patrick D

Corey

iTrader: (1)

I would recommend getting the Griot's one.
Ooops, wrong thread :xmas9:

I think all you need is the muffler.
I think your year of rig already has 2.5" pipes from the cat back.

I really dig the Magnaflow, but then you allredy knew that.
Did you listen to the two 3rd gens with the Magaflow too?

I heard TS1's in person, and it sounded great.

Dr. Zhivago

The Magnaflow's on Corey's and other rigs are straight-thru mufflers. The one on TS1's rig is straight thru muffler. Go to Corey's Exhaust Page to see the part #'s.

Here's Magnaflow's webpage with the muffler comparisons and part #'s.

A search revealed that the average price for the 11225 muffler is around $107.

Hope this helps.

Dr. Z

Patrick D

Thanks Dr. Z, you guys are great. I love you guys :cry:

Bob_98SR5

Patrick,

You are not going to gain torque...maybe gain a little HP but not gain on the torque. In fact, you might lose a little torque in the process.

When I put my Dynomax on my 99, I could tell that at WOT, I lost a *little* torque but definitely gained on the HP, as it would accelerate and shift a tad bit quicker.

I'm not sure if this is the universal experience, so take it with a grain of salt.

Hey, if you're looking for a Dynomax, Dbui27 on the boards is selling his new, unopened Dynomax and he lives in San Jose too. Email or PM him.

Bob

Dr. Zhivago

Anytime Patrick.

Dr. Z

Patrick D

The Dynomax is a turbo muffler right? Thats what Dr. Z was talking about earlier, how turbo mufflers are more for tone because of the chambers inside, the emissions don't flow straight-thru.

Dr. Zhivago

It depends on the model. Look at Corey's page for pictures of particular Dynomax models. They do make a Turbo style, however they also make straight-thru mufflers.

Dr. Z

bugshack

Ive always used Borla but I just installed one of these on my 94. Im impressed with the quality and at $62 the price was right. http://www.goerlichs.com/goerlichs/p...gxlerator1.htm

loosehead

Hey Patrick-

I know what you mean about having a hard time choosing. Probably your best bet is to call around to some of the muffler shops in your area and see what they have and how much they will charge to put the muffler on for you. You could always order the muffler of your choice from some place like Summit Racing . They have all of the dynomax mufflers at pretty good prices. Then just have a shop put it on for you.

I had an exhaust put on last month after much deliberation. I called around and found a shop with a decent selection who had good prices on labor and went and saw them. I ended up getting a muffler called the Excelerator, which is pretty much a copy of the Magnaflow, but cost a little less. I think you need to just call around, and hopefully you'll get the right person on the phone who can take care of you. Here is an old thread with a few pics of mine.

Good Luck!

Patrick D

Anyone else?

Cebby

Corey's recommendations. Griot's actually has a heck of muffler. The batting is made of expensive microfiber towels and has an integral claybar holder. Here's a link.

Give it a minute to load, Corey never resized his 4Runner "money shot" JPEG on Griot's site.

Dr. Zhivago

Dr. Z

HBoss

Dynomax is a nice cost-effective solution. I like the Magnaflow too, but can't confirm that it's worth the $$. I bought this Rhino one because:

1. cost
2. convenience (was easy to find)
3. sound (I got tired of pedestrians diving outta my way, so this is their warning. )

If it has extra power, then cool...bonus, but don't look for neck-snapping, knee-buckling improvement from a muffler system. You'll probably gain a whopping 7 hp at best and lose 2-3 lb-ft. of torque in the process...

Al

Dr. Zhivago

I don't understand why you guys keep saying you're going to lose torque... It sounds to me like you've been given bad information somewhere along the line.

You lose LOW END torque and power and gain it on the top end when your PRIMARY exhaust header tubing is large. Most decent headers designed for street use have staged tubing sizing to take advantage of the engine's powerband and to provide the best power in the RPM range that most people use.

You will lose TOP END torque and power when your SECONDARY (post Catalytic) exhaust tubing is too large because the exhaust gasses cool too rapidly, becoming slower as they become more dense. Forced Induction engines play by slightly different rules regarding tubing sizes versus NA engines.

So, since we're not messing with either of these things by just swapping in a free-flowing muffler for the stock restrictive one, you're going to gain some torque, not lose it, because you've reduced some "BAD" backpressure.

I dunno about you guys, but when I installed my Jardine System, I didn't lose any torque, I gained it. Everywhere. The difference between my truck and a truck that has just swapped the muffler into the stock exhaust tubing is that my system has Mandrel Bends. Supposedly, this doesn't make any difference on a street engine without headers, but at least I have the satisfaction of knowing my exhaust tubing is the same diameter all the thru. I also know that the size of the tubing on my Jardine System is properly sized for the displacement and power outut of my engine.

I'd say that it's not out of the question for a system like mine to add between 10-15HP and 15Ft/lbs of torque. These figures are less than 10% and entirely wthin the realm of possibilities.

One of the things that would help our V6 trucks is a better downpipe. It's crushed pretty hard making it's way thru that 90 degree bend right before the Cat. I've been considering having George make me a mandrel bent downpipe. I'll let you guys know if I decide to do that.

My .02
Dr. Z

HBoss

Well I should have clarified a bit at least, you're right. It does not depend only on the muffler, but the rest of your setup as well. To say this is the only piece that would absolutely result in loss of torque is not correct, but I still believe it's most likely.

I agree with most of what you said there, however back pressure is really what we're talking about here. With it you have higher low-end torque, but lower mid-high range hp. Without it, vice versa. Components which affect back pressure from the engine to the tailpipe, you know already so I won't bore ya there. One piece is of course the muffler & it has an effect on back pressure.

For anyone else reading this, who is not familiar with back pressure, I'll give links to stuff instead of typing it all out. Reputable links too, not Joe Nobody with "basement know-it-all websites" hehe.

One example is Ferarri :

Scroll down to the exhaust section for this quote:

"Greater back pressure allows higher torque under average load"

Gibson Performance Mufflers recognize the importance of back pressure and pipe diameter that Dr. Z was referring to.

And finally:

Suzuki designed an exhaust tuning system which recognizes the importance of back pressure.

(Click on the "Suzuki Exhaust Tuning system" link because I can't link it nicely for you in here.)

"The SET valves is nearly closed at low engine RPM to improve torque and low-speed drivability. As the engine RPM increases, the SET valve progressively opens to reduce back pressure, thus improving mid-range and high-RPM performance. "

Anyway, my point is..if you get a poorly-designed muffler and it reduces your back pressure to increase top-end hp, you will lose some torque, yes.

Al

CTB

So, why exactly does backpressure do to maintain torque?

Patrick D

Does anyone know which muffler gives more low-end torque?

I ask because I raised my friends STOCK 2000 Honda Civic HX (economy model) and we were neck and neck up to 60 mph, sure he has a manual tranny but he also had over 100 pounds of audio equipment in the car and he peeled out for 1-2 seconds at the start. It was a sad day for the 4runner

Dr. Zhivago

Al,

I hate to be such a nay-sayer, and while those links are impressive, it's hard to compare apples to oranges. The engines that have the tunable exhaust vanes in their exhaust tubing are designed to provide EXTREMELY high RPM power and torque. That Suzuki motocycle engine probably redlines around 9000 RPM's. That's nearly twice the redline on our engines. It would definitely benefit from extra backpressure at low RPM's to produce more useable torque. It most likely doesn't make any decent power below 3500 RPM's.

The same thing goes for the Ferrari. It makes maximum torque at 5000 RPM's and Max HP at 7000 RPM's! That engine is made for high RPM Power, not for tooling around at 2-3K.

The stock exhaust systems on our trucks are very restrictive. Too restrictive, I think. Our engines are designed to proide good power and torque at much lower RPM's than Exotic Sports Cars and Motorcycles. The Exhaust Manifolds, Downpipe and Catalytic provide all the backpressure we're going to need. There is such a thing as too much backpressure. Due to the head design on our trucks, opening up the exhaust post Catalytic will definitely make the engine more responsive and probably help gas mileage in the process.

I'd love to have the resources to dyno the diffs between the stock system and a good cat-back. But I don't. To anyone reading this, don't be scared that swapping in a free-flowing muffler is going to make your truck less able to grunt it's way down a trail at low RPM's. That's just isn't going to happen. With the way my truck is currently set up, "blipping" the throttle while crawling just off idle produces a good head-bobbing jolt of torque.

That's all I've got to say about this topic.

Peace!
Dr. Z

HBoss

Yes, I'm sure this is something we'd have fun talking/debating over with coffee or beer instead of long & drawn out in here.

Al