To drill or not to drill throught the firewall???

impulsebrklyn · 03-11-2003, 01:39 PM

Well i just installed my alpine cda7897 in my 2003 4runner, not hard at all but took alittle longer then thought. had to take alot off the dash apart cause i had to run a seperate power line for the head unit (alpine recommends).

But now to the next adventure how to get the 0 guage wire from the battery into the 4runner. There are no large unused gromets in the firewall. And the real large gromet in front of the passager side has a plastic backing so there is no easy way to get through it. TO much stuff in the way to drill it out.

So would it be a bad idea to just drill a hole through the firewall for the 0 guage and put a nice layer of silicone on the hole??????

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2wheeler97 · 03-11-2003, 01:43 PM

I am assuming you are talking about the wire for the amp. I put the amp underneath my seat, and conviently enough, under the seat, you might find a hole there. I found one that had some other wires running through it. Anyways, if you take out the front seat and pull out the carpeting underneath it, you can run it through the floor board rather than the firewall. It was nice for me to do it this way because I already have enough things going through the firewall as is. (I have wires for my aftermarket tach, my fog lights, and my driving lights going through the firewall already. Anyways, yeah check underneath, and see if you see a grommet in the floorboard, it should be kinda close to the frame.
I also ran the wire along the frame, which made it easy to hide.

Bumpin' Yota · 03-11-2003, 01:55 PM

I ran some 1/0 in my 1990 4R and it was a major PITA... Basically I ran the 1/0 through one of the partially used grommets on the passenger side then just threaded the 1/0 down to the kickpanel area where I drilled a hole for it to enter. (this hole is below and behind the ECU on the passenger side kick.) From there, I just ran it as best as I could, but you can still see the hump in the carpet from the 1/0 where it passes the passenger side seat belt anchor on its trip to the back cargo area.

Incidentally I used GOOP and a cut in half washer to completely seal the hole i made...

***Corey*** · 03-11-2003, 02:09 PM

And I thought bringing in 4 guage was hard enough.

I had to take off the computer on the passenger side and route the wire through a groment on the firewall.

It barely fit through.

Good Times · 03-11-2003, 02:29 PM

impulsebrklyn:

there is a large gromet on the driver side should be able to fit the power lead there... I've so far fit my cable for the amp, the coax for the cb and the harness that it uses that hole... it's a mighty tight squeeze but it worked...

I'd say find a way but i wouldn't recommend drilling as you won't know what you're gonna drill into... just tinker around and you'll find a way....

good luck

Lance

PhxTRDRunner · 03-11-2003, 02:38 PM

Are you trying to build a competition vehicle? If not, you have absolutely zero reason to run 0 gauge....4 gauge is more than sufficient in 99% of applications... I'm currently running a rockford bd1000 and 500x off of a 4 gauge and it runs perfectly. No light flash, no current drop.

Just curious...

Bumpin' Yota · 03-11-2003, 03:31 PM

honestly do not try and run any more than 150 amps through 4ga.... if you do you risk a fire if your fuse doesnt give out first.

1/0 is limited to 300amps

Keep in mind this is at 12.5v over a 20' run of cable. If the cable is longer the current carrying ability will be lower. Also that is the rating for stinger's car cable. The current carrying ability will also be affected by the insulation's melting point. Stinger's has a higher melting point than most, so those values are at the upper limits of safe....

PhxTRDRunner · 03-11-2003, 03:40 PM

150 amps!!!??? Now that is A LOT of power...If you actually get that much power down the line, you are definately in competition territory. I've yet to exceed 100 amps in any of my systems...most ranging from 140-150db. My current system is only running about 80 amps and is plenty loud for anyone who has heard it.

I'd guess it at about 145db with 4 12's.

Yes, I have competed, but its been a while.

Bob_98SR5 · 03-11-2003, 03:53 PM

Brklyn:

For my Cobra 75 install (almost done), I drilled a hole to the right of the existing brake/master cylinder firewall grommet (if you are looking at it from the inside). If you have an automatic, that will be much easier for you. I have a 5speed so I had to hold down the clutch and drill at the same time.

If you do, drill a pilot hole, increase the size of the bit and make sure you use tapping oil.

Also, go to the hardware store and buy some rubber grommets from the electrical dept. You might find some in the plumbing dept too.

I'll post a pic later this evening.

Bob

Firefyter-Emt · 03-11-2003, 04:00 PM

No worries for drilling a hole, make sure you buy a nice grommet that fits the wire, match it up with a drill bit, paint the hole and you are all set..

150amps.. Dude, what are you gonna feed it from?? the stock altermnator only puts out like 60-80.. Hi-po alternators are pushing it for 150.. Are you running a seperate alternator just for the radio?? You will have to just to leave enough to run the truck..

Bumpin' Yota · 03-11-2003, 04:20 PM

the reason for something like 4ga is so that you dont have any voltage drop. If the voltage drops below 12.5v at the amp, you will have problems, it's only a matter of time.

150amps is not really a whole lot of current if you have a couple (or 4) big amps pushing subs. Because the alt only can give ~60amps or so, the rest comes from the battery for that breif period of demand. This is often characterized by light dimming. Having a larger wire is more efficeint in this manner. Not only that, but there is no such thing as overkill (except to the pocket bood) when it comes to wire size.

(you can get great wire from a good welding shop for oooodles cheaper than the name brand stuff and have the same performance. )

heck, in db drag, in street 1-2, we are pulling 4kw (~400amps) for a very breif period ot time. Gotta luv Zapco's 4kw...

In all reality, for 95% of people out there, 4ga would be enough. I still love the reactions I get to my 1/0 though. lol

impulsebrklyn · 03-11-2003, 05:38 PM

good times can you try and explain alittle better where that gromet is. I had most the the passenger side apart i saw a large gromet on the side but there was not enough room. and the interior ring of the gromet was plactic which means i would have to drill anyway.

Ill be pushing a total of 2300 watts when its said and done. above 150 amps. So i will run 0 guage, plus there is less resistance and less of a chance of fire. the amps will be able to pull the power better, the volts wont drop as much.

Oh and i have a 2003 4runner i thought the alternator was like 110-120 or something??

JVarney · 03-11-2003, 05:57 PM

Looks like a nice player.....

After the install could you post a picture of it.

I have a 2003 also and want to replace the factory..

Is the alpine a 1.0, 1.5 or 2.0 DIN.

Thanks

4FonZ · 03-11-2003, 08:26 PM

impulse...

Yah, I had to drill a hole in the firewall to get 4 gauge through it... I did it on the driver's side, same side as the battery. You have to cut a window out of the plastic shell lining that's on the inside of the cabin against the firewall....

It would be nice if I had a right angle drill, too... and you need some good bits...

I found a nice grommet at Circuit City -- made by Monster Cable... allows 0/4 gauge through... it's a 2-piece grommet that screws together on each side of the firewall, then I put a lot of silicone around it....

I can't see how to get a large wire through the existing grommet, even if you put a hole on one side of the rubber with a knife and push through with a needle-nose pliers...

Bob_98SR5 · 03-11-2003, 10:03 PM

impulse:

here is an image of the hole i cut:

As you can see, there is a little piece of flash (since removed). It is big enough for two 14 gauge wires and a CB coax to fit through.

Bob

Good Times · 03-12-2003, 09:13 AM

impulsebrklyn:

Looks like you're gonna be putting out quite some power ehe?

In that case, I'd say just drill a hole somewhere safe and go with that concept. Sand down the edges so the lead won't get caught up on the sides!

Keep it clean!

Lance

Bob_98SR5 · 03-12-2003, 09:23 AM

impulse,

exactly what Good Times said but do find and install a rubber grommet to keep the edges of the hole from fraying your cable.

Bob

Cebby · 03-12-2003, 09:32 AM

In my Celica, I ran 1/0 under the car in flexible "liquidtite" conduit. That way, you can just drill a hole and come up right by the amps in the rear and avoid the issues with trying to run that huge stuff through the passenger compartment, They make nice weatherproof connectors for the ends. Look at an electrical supply distributor.

x4RunnerTM7x · 03-12-2003, 02:01 PM

for my system i drilled though the firewall and yes use a grommet...remember to drill the hole as high as possible because you dont want water to go into the cabin if you go offroading (streams) etc. the engine bay looks more "professional" if you do drill into the firewall...if you try to use a hole made by toyota, the hole is just perfectly made for the wire's toyota plan to put though it...rule of thumb: dont mickey mouse your wiring

03-11-2003, 01:43 PM	#2 (permalink)
2wheeler97 Registered User Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Lompoc, Ca. Posts: 103	I am assuming you are talking about the wire for the amp. I put the amp underneath my seat, and conviently enough, under the seat, you might find a hole there. I found one that had some other wires running through it. Anyways, if you take out the front seat and pull out the carpeting underneath it, you can run it through the floor board rather than the firewall. It was nice for me to do it this way because I already have enough things going through the firewall as is. (I have wires for my aftermarket tach, my fog lights, and my driving lights going through the firewall already. Anyways, yeah check underneath, and see if you see a grommet in the floorboard, it should be kinda close to the frame. I also ran the wire along the frame, which made it easy to hide. __________________ '97 2wd Tacoma, 3.4 V6 Suspension: Fabtech 3 1/2" lift and Rancho RS5000 shocks Performance: flowmaster muffler, K&N air filter, intake silencer removal mod, elbow and deckplate mod, NGK spark plug wires, flex-a-lite electric fans. Lighting: Pilot Driving Lights, Sylvania Silverstar Headlight bulbs, Blazer "Ultra-white Series" Fog Lights (there's an oxy-moron), and nifty blue L.E.D.'s here and there Stereo: All kenwood system, 47x4 deck, component systems up front, 2-ways in rear panels, 10" sub, 600 watt amp. Miscellanous: smittybilt steps, bushwhacker fender flares, sunpro tach, 3" body lift, line-x bedliner, K&N Oil Filter, Air gate, Viper alarm system, snow tiger seat covers, A.P.C. toyota emblem(blue background) Window Tint:(limo tint on rear windows and extended cab windows, blue chrome tint on visor), fab-tech spare tire mount

03-11-2003, 01:55 PM	#3 (permalink)
Bumpin' Yota Registered User Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Sarasota, FL Posts: 3,639	I ran some 1/0 in my 1990 4R and it was a major PITA... Basically I ran the 1/0 through one of the partially used grommets on the passenger side then just threaded the 1/0 down to the kickpanel area where I drilled a hole for it to enter. (this hole is below and behind the ECU on the passenger side kick.) From there, I just ran it as best as I could, but you can still see the hump in the carpet from the 1/0 where it passes the passenger side seat belt anchor on its trip to the back cargo area. Incidentally I used GOOP and a cut in half washer to completely seal the hole i made... __________________ 3vze, 4x4, sr5, 90, auto, LSD 2x dB Drag World Finalist 2003 Nopi Nat. Street B champ 2004 SBN Street C champ 2004 SBN Advncd NW Champ 2004 Former WR Holder in NW. SPL: 159.8db @ 42hz In loving memory of Jamie Riggs 5/15/85 - 10/8/04

03-11-2003, 02:09 PM	#4 (permalink)
*Corey* Co-Founder/Administrator Staff Join Date: May 2002 Location: Auburn, Washington Posts: 26,077	And I thought bringing in 4 guage was hard enough. I had to take off the computer on the passenger side and route the wire through a groment on the firewall. It barely fit through. __________________ Corey 2007 FJ Cruiser Built for 4wheelin', expedition, camping, and overlanding use PNW FJ Cruisers ☺ Detailing 101 ☺ Join Topsites ☺ Muffler Comparisons ☺ Maggiolinas In The Wild FJ Cruiser Buildup ☺ New Roof Top Tent ☺ Video Of My Penthouse Part II ☺ Rehinge Your ARB/Engel Fridge Blog About Roof Top Tents ☺ FJC Magazines Online Review Of My Tent ☺ 2009 Specialized Rockhopper Pro

03-11-2003, 02:29 PM	#5 (permalink)
Good Times Contributing Member Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Los Angeles, CA Posts: 4,693	impulsebrklyn: there is a large gromet on the driver side should be able to fit the power lead there... I've so far fit my cable for the amp, the coax for the cb and the harness that it uses that hole... it's a mighty tight squeeze but it worked... I'd say find a way but i wouldn't recommend drilling as you won't know what you're gonna drill into... just tinker around and you'll find a way.... good luck Lance __________________ 2003 4runner SR5 4x4 Chaos Edition Chaos Edition! Operation Rebuild Chaos Edition Need to reach me or ask questions? You can find me here!

03-11-2003, 02:38 PM	#6 (permalink)
PhxTRDRunner Registered User Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Phoenix, AZ Posts: 695	Are you trying to build a competition vehicle? If not, you have absolutely zero reason to run 0 gauge....4 gauge is more than sufficient in 99% of applications... I'm currently running a rockford bd1000 and 500x off of a 4 gauge and it runs perfectly. No light flash, no current drop. Just curious... __________________ '00 4runner Sold '94 Supra 6spd tt '05 Tacoma Double Cab 4wd TRD Offroad

03-11-2003, 03:31 PM	#7 (permalink)
Bumpin' Yota Registered User Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Sarasota, FL Posts: 3,639	honestly do not try and run any more than 150 amps through 4ga.... if you do you risk a fire if your fuse doesnt give out first. 1/0 is limited to 300amps Keep in mind this is at 12.5v over a 20' run of cable. If the cable is longer the current carrying ability will be lower. Also that is the rating for stinger's car cable. The current carrying ability will also be affected by the insulation's melting point. Stinger's has a higher melting point than most, so those values are at the upper limits of safe.... __________________ 3vze, 4x4, sr5, 90, auto, LSD 2x dB Drag World Finalist 2003 Nopi Nat. Street B champ 2004 SBN Street C champ 2004 SBN Advncd NW Champ 2004 Former WR Holder in NW. SPL: 159.8db @ 42hz In loving memory of Jamie Riggs 5/15/85 - 10/8/04

03-11-2003, 03:40 PM	#8 (permalink)
PhxTRDRunner Registered User Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Phoenix, AZ Posts: 695	150 amps!!!??? Now that is A LOT of power...If you actually get that much power down the line, you are definately in competition territory. I've yet to exceed 100 amps in any of my systems...most ranging from 140-150db. My current system is only running about 80 amps and is plenty loud for anyone who has heard it. I'd guess it at about 145db with 4 12's. Yes, I have competed, but its been a while. __________________ '00 4runner Sold '94 Supra 6spd tt '05 Tacoma Double Cab 4wd TRD Offroad

03-11-2003, 03:53 PM	#9 (permalink)
Bob_98SR5 Contributing Member Join Date: May 2002 Location: Los Angeles Posts: 10,092	Brklyn: For my Cobra 75 install (almost done), I drilled a hole to the right of the existing brake/master cylinder firewall grommet (if you are looking at it from the inside). If you have an automatic, that will be much easier for you. I have a 5speed so I had to hold down the clutch and drill at the same time. If you do, drill a pilot hole, increase the size of the bit and make sure you use tapping oil. Also, go to the hardware store and buy some rubber grommets from the electrical dept. You might find some in the plumbing dept too. I'll post a pic later this evening. Bob

03-11-2003, 04:00 PM	#10 (permalink)
Firefyter-Emt Contributing Member Join Date: May 2002 Location: Connecticut Posts: 972	No worries for drilling a hole, make sure you buy a nice grommet that fits the wire, match it up with a drill bit, paint the hole and you are all set.. 150amps.. Dude, what are you gonna feed it from?? the stock altermnator only puts out like 60-80.. Hi-po alternators are pushing it for 150.. Are you running a seperate alternator just for the radio?? You will have to just to leave enough to run the truck.. __________________ Lee's Toyota 4Runner Yankee Toys - TLCA Delegate 2nd Gen. Sway Bar disconnects for sale..

03-11-2003, 04:20 PM	#11 (permalink)
Bumpin' Yota Registered User Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Sarasota, FL Posts: 3,639	the reason for something like 4ga is so that you dont have any voltage drop. If the voltage drops below 12.5v at the amp, you will have problems, it's only a matter of time. 150amps is not really a whole lot of current if you have a couple (or 4) big amps pushing subs. Because the alt only can give ~60amps or so, the rest comes from the battery for that breif period of demand. This is often characterized by light dimming. Having a larger wire is more efficeint in this manner. Not only that, but there is no such thing as overkill (except to the pocket bood) when it comes to wire size. (you can get great wire from a good welding shop for oooodles cheaper than the name brand stuff and have the same performance. ) heck, in db drag, in street 1-2, we are pulling 4kw (~400amps) for a very breif period ot time. Gotta luv Zapco's 4kw... In all reality, for 95% of people out there, 4ga would be enough. I still love the reactions I get to my 1/0 though. lol __________________ 3vze, 4x4, sr5, 90, auto, LSD 2x dB Drag World Finalist 2003 Nopi Nat. Street B champ 2004 SBN Street C champ 2004 SBN Advncd NW Champ 2004 Former WR Holder in NW. SPL: 159.8db @ 42hz In loving memory of Jamie Riggs 5/15/85 - 10/8/04

03-11-2003, 05:38 PM	#12 (permalink)
impulsebrklyn Registered User Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Brooklyn NY Posts: 496	good times can you try and explain alittle better where that gromet is. I had most the the passenger side apart i saw a large gromet on the side but there was not enough room. and the interior ring of the gromet was plactic which means i would have to drill anyway. Ill be pushing a total of 2300 watts when its said and done. above 150 amps. So i will run 0 guage, plus there is less resistance and less of a chance of fire. the amps will be able to pull the power better, the volts wont drop as much. Oh and i have a 2003 4runner i thought the alternator was like 110-120 or something??

03-11-2003, 05:57 PM	#13 (permalink)
JVarney Registered User Join Date: Mar 2003 Posts: 14	Looks like a nice player..... After the install could you post a picture of it. I have a 2003 also and want to replace the factory.. Is the alpine a 1.0, 1.5 or 2.0 DIN. Thanks Last edited by JVarney; 03-11-2003 at 06:32 PM.

03-11-2003, 08:26 PM	#14 (permalink)
4FonZ Registered User Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: South Jersey Shore Posts: 138	impulse... Yah, I had to drill a hole in the firewall to get 4 gauge through it... I did it on the driver's side, same side as the battery. You have to cut a window out of the plastic shell lining that's on the inside of the cabin against the firewall.... It would be nice if I had a right angle drill, too... and you need some good bits... I found a nice grommet at Circuit City -- made by Monster Cable... allows 0/4 gauge through... it's a 2-piece grommet that screws together on each side of the firewall, then I put a lot of silicone around it.... I can't see how to get a large wire through the existing grommet, even if you put a hole on one side of the rubber with a knife and push through with a needle-nose pliers... __________________ 'O1 SR5.

03-11-2003, 10:03 PM	#15 (permalink)
Bob_98SR5 Contributing Member Join Date: May 2002 Location: Los Angeles Posts: 10,092	impulse: here is an image of the hole i cut: As you can see, there is a little piece of flash (since removed). It is big enough for two 14 gauge wires and a CB coax to fit through. Bob

03-12-2003, 09:13 AM	#16 (permalink)
Good Times Contributing Member Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Los Angeles, CA Posts: 4,693	impulsebrklyn: Looks like you're gonna be putting out quite some power ehe? In that case, I'd say just drill a hole somewhere safe and go with that concept. Sand down the edges so the lead won't get caught up on the sides! Keep it clean! Lance __________________ 2003 4runner SR5 4x4 Chaos Edition Chaos Edition! Operation Rebuild Chaos Edition Need to reach me or ask questions? You can find me here!

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03-12-2003, 09:23 AM	#17 (permalink)
Bob_98SR5 Contributing Member Join Date: May 2002 Location: Los Angeles Posts: 10,092	impulse, exactly what Good Times said but do find and install a rubber grommet to keep the edges of the hole from fraying your cable. Bob

03-12-2003, 09:32 AM	#18 (permalink)
Cebby Contributing Member Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Pittsburgh, PA Posts: 11,246	In my Celica, I ran 1/0 under the car in flexible "liquidtite" conduit. That way, you can just drill a hole and come up right by the amps in the rear and avoid the issues with trying to run that huge stuff through the passenger compartment, They make nice weatherproof connectors for the ends. Look at an electrical supply distributor. __________________ UZswap.com A site dedicated to sharing info for swapping the Toyota/ Lexus UZ (V8) engines into Toyota Trucks and 4Runners. My 4Runner 1993 4Runner, 1UZ (V8) auto dual ultimate crawler, double locked, 35's on beadlocked SR5 alloys, low lift, hacked fenders, tubbed firewall, custom armor TOOLandFAB.com A discussion forum dedicated to tools, fabrication & workshops. See my JD2 Bender Hydro Conversion BUY THIS 2008 CALENDAR

03-12-2003, 02:01 PM	#19 (permalink)
x4RunnerTM7x Registered User Join Date: Feb 2003 Posts: 53	for my system i drilled though the firewall and yes use a grommet...remember to drill the hole as high as possible because you dont want water to go into the cabin if you go offroading (streams) etc. the engine bay looks more "professional" if you do drill into the firewall...if you try to use a hole made by toyota, the hole is just perfectly made for the wire's toyota plan to put though it...rule of thumb: dont mickey mouse your wiring