flobadon

I've been looking at Downey Off-Road's products for some time now, namely their headers. I've found em for sale online for $415, and being a college student working a part-time job I am really concerned in getting the most for my money. I won't be able to afford Downey's cat-back kit for some time after the headers if I do go with them, so my other question is will I be able to install the headers to the stock exhaust (sans the exhaust manifolds, obviously)? Also, is this a good idea? Is there a cheaper/better way to go? I'm relatively new to the world of engines and mechanics.

Thanks,

CTB

I would do both at the same time if I were you.

I would go to a custom exhaust shop and have them rig up a cat-back system for you. That will more than likely be cheaper than the Downey system. And I know what you mean about saving money (I'm in college too... )

Salue

From what I have read, the headers can be a HUGE pain if you don't have at least a 1" body lift, and the crossover pipe is a pain to take off as well. I think off-road.com's Toyota section has a writeup of the install by Scott Wilson on his '89 4runner... Either that site or 4x4wire.com

Salue

flobadon

Hmm, I will have to look into that, I know of a custom exhaust shop that does a lot of performance car exhaust jobs. I was kind of expecting the install job to be a pain in the ass anyway, but hopefully I won't be the one doing it.

Churnd

If I can install the headers, so can you. I'm assuming you have the 3.0? All you need to make the installation a breeze is some PB Rust Penetrant, a good breaker bar to get the nuts off the studs, and a sawzall or some kind of pipe cutting tool.

First thing you do is soak all the nuts with the penetrant the day before you do anything. The first thing you take off will be the downpipe and everything after that. Now all you'll have to worry about is the manifolds and the crossover pipe. Get that sawzall out and hack the crossover pipe off on both sides as close to the manifold as you can. It can be done because I did it to mine. After that, the crossover pipe will slide right out... no dropping the transmission or anything. All that's left is to remove the manifolds and EGR/Reed valve plumbing.

Once that's completed, DON'T TAKE THE STUDS OUT OF THE HEADS!!! I know Downey says to in favor of using their bolts. Trust me, you'll be alot better off leaving them in there because I think that you'll be able to slide the headers on over them if they aren't too long. I wish I had done that instead of trying to use the bolts from Downey b/c I stripped out a few holes with them sumbitches. So slide the gaskets and headers on, run the nuts back on preferably with a lock washer just to be safe, and run your new EGR/Reed valve plumbing and you're set! Now drive to that exhaust shop with open headers (and get the biggest grin when you see the faces of all the ricers as you pass by) to get your custom catback system made. Now that ain't too hard is it??

If you want more info, don't hesitate to ask. I'll be glad to help.

flobadon

Wow, in your install did you pull the spark plugs at all? Seems like you have found a way around quite a bit of the work that makes this installation difficult. The hardest part of your install guide seems to be evading the police whilst driving around on open headers. Thanks a lot for the advice, maybe I'll do this job myself afterall...

Next question is how much will a new catback system run me? I've seen prices all over the board for pre-fab (Downey, Flowmaster, Borla) from $190-400. I'd like to go with 2.25" duals, but that's prolly a little too pricey for me :rolleyes:. Will I want to stay with 2.25" if i go for the single outlet or will 2.5" still provide enough backpressure to move the exhaust?

Thanks again,

flobadon

Just read your writeup on the install, and it pretty much answered my remaining questions. Thanks!

Churnd

That page is pretty old and I've made a few changes to my exhaust since then.

Use 2.25" piping off the headers, then bump up to 2.5" when the other 2 pipes meet. A definite MUST is to have the exhaust shop cut out the 02 sensor mounting flange and weld it into the 2.5 pipe. I know the pictures in that writeup show me using the stock 2" pipe, but that's because the first exhaust shop I went to wouldn't cut it out. You shouldn't have a problem since you're going to that shop that does a lot of performance stuff.

Another thing I've changed is that I added a free flowing catalytic converter. It makes a difference having it on because I've ran it both ways. With it off, there wasn't enough backpressure and the idle would get screwy every now and then. With it on, it provided more backpressure where I needed it and I noticed more power right when I left the shop. It's worth it to get one.

I can snap a few pics if you'd like. Just let me know.

4 the Hard Way

flobadon,

Just my $.02......

I have the Downey headers on my '88 3.0 V6...they suck. The smog fittings are horrible and they have no real y-pipe hook ups at the ends. I should have spent the extra money to get the NWOR ones with the nicer fittings and ball collectors. I know people talk crap about NWOR...thing is, no they don't actually manufacture anything...neither does Downey. The price you stated seems high, unless it comes with the y-pipe?? I think I only paid $215 or something for mine? Anyway, the Downey headers are very thin walled and throw a lot of heat. I've already melted 2 master cylinder o-rings...but then again, my motor is far from stock.

So just get some more opinions before jumping into the investment... It's a lot of money, a very annoying installation, for a noticable gain...but not as "thrilling" as you may think. After all, it is only the 3.0 V6, ya know?

Good luck.

Greg
Updated webpage

Churnd

Well, I'm not going to diss NWOR's headers because I've never actually seen them... just what I've heard suggests they're not a good header. Plus, how can you get away with mating a stainless steel surface (the header) to an aluminum surface (the head) that expands and contracts as it heats up with no gasket and absolutely no leaks? Just seems pretty far fetched to me.

I don't know about you, but I have Downey's ceramic coated headers, which don't give off any more heat than the stock manifolds themselves, and have held up great since I bought them 2 years ago. No signs of rust whatsoever and I'm sure if I cleaned the mud off of them they'd look brand new.

I agree with you saying that the headers don't turn the 3.0 into a V8, but they're the best thing you can do short of boring it out. But that's another $3000 at least and an entirely different discussion. I say go with Downey, unless you use gaskets with the NWOR... then it's entirely your call.

sutlTL

I agree with Churnd. If you look at my signature I'm running a lot of Downey stuff. My first Downey purchase was the headers and complete exhaust system. This was the most impressive gain in horsepower compared to any other mod I've done to all my past cars! Very impressive! A comment about NWOR: Their catalog is interesting reading and they have a few different products, BUT I really can't see why they have to put down their competitors and claim other products are inferior! That's a major turn off and it reflects on what kind of business they run. I'm completely satisfied with ALL the Downey products I have.

Waterboy

Digging up old threads here but I have a few questions. I recently bought a set of 3 month used Downey headers and the guy sent me 4 gaskets and six bolts. So I'm not sure if he knew about gasket problems and sent extra or if I'm supposed to have one on each header and one on each side of the motor. Also because of the the lack of bolts (and Churnd's warning) I have decided to use the stock studs.
Also the exhaust shop I went to to get a quote on the exhaust told me it would run $200-$225. This seemed kind of high to me but I know they do good work. What did you guys pay for the custom cross over pipe? Also the guy at the exhaust shop suggested that I run 2" pipe off each headers to keep better back pressure. He said that a 350 only runs 3" pipe off of it's headers and my motor is half the displacement.