FireMan

Is there anyone out there that has the DOA head studs for the 3.0?

Did you need a special thinkwall socket to tighten the nuts?
How did you install the studs? Hand tight?

Nothing against DOA, but the "instructions" I received were jotted down on the back of a buisiness card. I need help !

AgRunner06

You need to give them a call and say ":wtf:."

FireMan

yeah, my project has now stalled once again. I checked the DOA website, and it looks like he wont be availible till the beginning of next month.
:wtf: :wtf: :wtf:

If anyone has used these, PLEASE HELP!!

partszar

I havent used the DOA head studs but Roger Browns site talks about the ARP stud kit for the 22re. The info should be applicable to the V6

FireMan

:wtf:

God is punnishing me for my bad deeds. I now know that I should either:

1. Not pick up a wrench again.
2. Get drunk. Real drunk.
3. Only buy Ford or GM. Preferably 78' and older.
4. Take the plasma cutter to my 3.POS
5. Steal a 3.4 and tranny.
6. Break stuff.
7. Did I say get real drunk?
8. Break down and cry.

Drivers side head went on without a hitch.
Passenger side head, well........ 2nd to last stud to torque and POP!

[As my stomach turns and face becomes red]

"#@$%!" x 100 :wtf
"Ohh, look ! The rest of the stud broke off in the block. Whooppee !"

I didn't throw anything though. I just walked away and got a beer and cig.

This is going the route of https://www.yotatech.com/forums/members/4636.html

Does anyone have any suggestions? DOA studs. Won't be able to get in touch with Tim as far as I know until May 3rd.

FireMan

HAHAHAHAH,

I got the broken piece of stud out of the block!!!!

I put an extractor on it, and it spun out so easily, I was able to take it out by hand the rest of the way. Still if anyone knows Tim at DOA, can you please have him send me a new stud? My car has been down a month now, and having to wait another month is not an option. For $250, you would think that this wouldn't of happened.

shazaam

Just following your progress. I feel for ya man.

Anyone else making something that you can use temporarly till tim gets back

MTL_4runner

What torque value are you using for the studs?
Are you stepping the torque?

Typically you don't go and torque them down to the final value right away or you could get warpage.

JohnStra

Hmmm... I'm curious what you were torqueing too also, Fireman. I was planning to buy a set of these studs, but if you can snap them off that easily, I'm definitely going to go a different direction.

-john

FireMan

Heres' some pics of my fun.

http://community.webshots.com/user/darkronin619

Do to the DOA album. You'll see the carnage.

I did tighten everything in proper sequence at 45 degrees at a time.
It took me about 5 passes to get to 60 lbs torque. The driver side went on perfectly. I did have to go to a tool shop and find a 3/8" drive thin walled 11/16 socket though. I got an adapter to 1/2" so I could use my torque wrench. It was 2nd to last to torque down. The nut was turning nicely. 60 lbs (at lest for me, I'm fairly strong) isn't too much effort. This felt more like 25-30 lbs when it snapped.

The quality on the studs might be a little suspect. I laid all the studs out, (wish I had my camera then) and they weren't what I call 100%/perfectly even in length. They didn't seem to vary greatly, but they did not look like a replica of each other. I would guess they are hand made. Not CNC'd. It might have been an illusion with the threads though. Also, the nuts would go on a tad rough. I cleaned all the studs,nuts, and block holes prior to install. The studs went into the block no problem. The nuts would seem to bind a tad in places if you were finger tightening them. But not bad.

The studs are supposed to have a ring/groove around one end. That end goes into the block according to the "instructions".

2 of the 16 didn't have a ring/groove. The ends that go into the head had a mark written on them, so I figured if the other 14 had the same mark on the head-side of the stud, then these 2 should be no different. Maybe someone forgot to put the groove on these 2? Well, it is interesting that 1 of the 2 without the ring/groove broke.

Now its' Saturday. It is raining like a mutha here in San Diego. I don't want anyone to think that I am talking smack about DOA or thier studs. I am just telling/showing what has happened to me so far. I placed the order last Saturday. They shipped Monday via USPS, and I recieved them Thursday afternoon. With shipping it was $275. Now for this price; well, I'm a bit burned right now. :wtf:

The kick in the balls in this whole epic of mine is that when I went back to call Tim @ DOA, their web page has a notice that they will be closed until May 3rd. I guess you can't beat timing. I have called and emailed, but there is no message machine, and no reply to my emails. If anyone lives near DOA, or knows Tim, could you please drop him a line?

This started as being a head gasket fix, and now a month and some change later, I have had to get new heads as mine were toast, + all the assorted pieces and parts. I should of had my engine back in my rig this morning and starting it up. Instead I'm stuck. For the amount of time and money this has cost me, I might as well have driven the engine until it croaked and done the 3.4 swap. God I wish I had a manual tranny. I would have done the swap from the start.

Sorry about the whinning folks. I am just getting sick and tired of looking at the engine that never will in my garage.

FireMan

What do you think it would cost a machinist to reproduce the stud?

JohnStra

FireMan -

I think when you finally get to talk to Tim, you should politely tell him that folks on this board are following what's happening. I hope this is an anomoly and that he does you right. Major PITA for you that there's nobody at DOA to help you right now. I guess the only thing DOA can do for you that makes sense is offer you some compensation. If you have to get a stud machined (I have no idea what it will cost), DOA should IMO reimburse every penny.

60 ft/lbs is a lower torque value than I expected for these studs. Does anyone have a good idea what the final torque is on the OEM bolts when you've completed the 33 ft/lbs + 90* + 90*. Seems that value has to be at least 60 lbs. If that's the case, other than the fact that there is a larger margin for bolt-to-bolt torque variance with the OEM bolts, I don't see a compelling reason to go with the studs.

-john

FireMan

I'm definitively not going to get aggro or anything. I really don't know how many people have used these studs before. The whole time lost is what is really frustrating. I really do not know the final torque value for the OEM bolts. I do know that they stretch. Did you get to check out the pics I put on webshots? They are much higher resolution.

I have to just wait abit to gain some clarity. This is one of those projects that starts to eat at you a little. I don't like making $$ decisions pissed off. I was so set on doing a 3.4 swap 8 months ago, but then everyone seemed to come out about the A340 tranny not being compatible with the 3.4's computer. That kinda dashed my hopes.

One thing I have learned about this project so far is to ever assume anything until it is in your hands one step at a time. From the beginning, I figured some light machine work to my heads, new gaskets, and I'd be done. Then, while the heads are getting cleaned, why not get some headers and exhaust? Right? :pat:

Now after $900 for new heads, $500 for gaskets and other misc items, $200 in some extra tools (Tools don't bother me though. They are investments.)
and the $275 blessed head studs, and $1000 for headers and exhaust; I'm looking at almost 3K, and still no working engine. Seeing how the 3.0 stuff is not cheap by any means, I might just part this stuff out. If I can make the money back partially, I think I'll just do the swap. The heads are what killed my budget the most. Not something I was planning for.

I could have, once I get this thing back together, a 3.0 that will last me another 100,000K miles for $2k.
Plus, I like wrenching on this stuff. It's fun. It's just the $$$ thing that is the damper on my fun. Then again, some of the rebuild deals look pretty good. I just don't feel to good about rebuilt engines unless I know the shop very well that is doing it; and it is local.

The only thing with the 3.4 swap is that I would either need to get a old manual tranny. This would probably be the easiest to do. I like having the auto so much though. Nothing against manuals, but in freeway stop and go, they aren't much fun. I wouldn't have to worry about the T-Case output being on the wrong side. Or, go without 4wd for awhile until I get an adapter. Ugh.

I saw a post somewhere that a guy with the automatic tranny is attempting the swap. Have you guys heard anything ?

Ganoid

Im in a similar situation with DOA myself. I havent even made it as far as installing the heads. I waited over 40 days to get my heads back. After 975$ for heads and 200$ in shipping I have a few questions Id like answered. Im also in the same boat you are when it comes to having to wait even longer to get those questiones answered. Like you I was less than impressed with the overall workmanship when I got the studs with my heads. Im suspecting that you didnt get the stud fully seated into the hole before you started torquing it. It seems like it would be a pain to get them installed to be honest. Here is what I was planning to do and Tim liked my idea so you may see his studs comming like this from now on. Im going to cut a slot on the unused portion of the stud tip with my cut off tool for a flat head screwdriver. Then for install I will thread the nut on just a little and set the stud into the head as I would the OE bolt. Then just set the head in position and seat the studs into place with the screwdriver. Once all studs are seated you can torque them down. If you notice when test fitting the studs that little groove in the stud looks to be some sort of indicator to when you have fully seated the stud cause it will site flush with the block deck surface.

I have found a source for a similar stud machine made out of grade 8 material. Cost would probably be 160$ a set give or take.

The whole going agro thing had crossed my mind as well. Im looking at about 150$ in additional cost +200$ in shipping and 40+ days of down time for work I could have had done locally. If i had known there would only be standard sized valves in the heads and not the oversized exh valves I was quoted I would have had my work done locally for a few hundred less and less than 5 days down time. There are more than enough local vendors in my area to do all the work I had done at DOA but none of them had any source for over sized valves. I would have had no idea if i hadent taken the heads to my local machine guy I usually deal with to have the shipping damage welded(dont get me started on the shipping damage). He was the one that pulled a set of OE size valves from the stock room and compared them to mine.You can only imagin my suprise to see that I did indeed have stock size exh valves and not oversized ones.

Like my good friend said "some lessons in life just cost more than others"
Lesson learned I guess. I can only hope it was some sort of oversight and maybe I got the wrong heads or somthing. Having 3-4 additional weeks to stew on it does bring up lots of intresting theories though. I wont pass any judgment until I get a chance to speak with DOA about the valve size issue. My only complaints about the heads would be the lack of oversized valves as mentioned and the surface prep was done with a belt machine and not the more expensive cutting machine. My machine shop friend said the belt was acceptable but not what he would expect for the kinda cash I spent. The Surface machine will spot every flaw in the belt job.

Ok Im done ranting now thanks for listening

MTL_4runner

After hearing about the suspect manufacturing on the DOA studs someone should check with unbrako to see if they can't have some studs made to the correct length and pitch. I am surprised they are cut not rolled threads because that will weaken the stud substantially.

Fireman, can you take measurements of the studs they made for you?
Thread Pitch, Overall length, diameter of the stud body, and how far on each end the stud is threaded.
I may send a drawing to them just to quote.

FireMan

Sure, I got nothing else to do right now. Give me a day or so and I'll be back with the measurements.

FireMan

Dude, tha SUX. Did you get the heads ported and polished? I saw another thread, maybe on pirate, about someone an engine that was supposed to be rebuilt into a 3.0 monster end up having the original bottom end untouched. I really was a bit skeptical about his claims though. Hmmmmm.... I'm comforted in a way knowing that I'm not alone in similar situation. I did get a reply on 4/20 from Tim @ DOA to an email that I sent him on 4/16. I would assume he is checking his email. I sent him a message that same day.

Does anyone know of a good place to find 3.4s in the So-Cal region? I feel like just going ahead with the swap now, and try to recoup some money on the 3.0 (which I have read to believe is more valueable than the 3.4).
What do you guys think?

As for the measurements of the stud. I'll take a picture right now of at lest the 7 that aren't installed anymore. How do I take the measurements of the studs? I have never had to measure a stud/bolt like this before.

Thanks

FireMan

I just uploaded some pics of 7 of the studs for a little comparison for you guys.

It at webshots:

http://community.webshots.com/user/darkronin619

got to the DOA link.

You'll see that I picked the lines on the paper and the line/groove around the bolts to orientate them with them with each other. You can see some variences. Ohh, when I removed the studs, the nuts were binded on them. I had to double nut the other side to get them off. I wasn't too easy.

934rnr

If I were you I would just get some regular head bolts for it put it back together get it running sell the 3slow engine then do the 3.4 swap.

Ganoid

I havent even pulled all the studs I have out of the package yet but you got me intrested now. Time to hit the garage with the digital camera. Any one wanna see pics of the heads too?

Back from the garage....







I guess mine are no different than yours Maybe I should further persue having some made and send these back?

had to shrink image for size limitations