berzerkrobot

So I read a lot of people on here have upgraded their front brakes to the tundra brakes in hopes of getting better stopping power from a larger brake, which is confusing to me because StopTech has this to say about that idea..

A bigger pad means better braking, right?
A bigger pad of the same compound in the same location as a smaller pad will not yield shorter stopping distances. The amount of pressure applied, pad friction coefficient, and the diameter on the rotor at which that pressure is applied, determine the torque reaction, or stopping force. A bigger pad does not apply more pressure, only the same pressure over a bigger area. Where the size of the pad matters is in terms of heat capacity and wear rate. A larger pad will absorb more initial heat (less thermal shock), and have better wear characteristics (longer pad life).

So do the tundra brake squeeze a lot harder??

My other question is about the front/rear balancing when getting the upgrade on the front and leaving the drums stock in the rear. Because the amount of brake force is supposedly increasing on the front brakes, the back end will now be reaching maximum braking force later, resulting poor handling ... right? Or are people having the rear brakes adjusted?

stormin94

The larger rotor will reduce brake fade, esp if you have large tires. They will probably last longer as well.

The rear brakes should still be fine, but you will likely have to adjust the new front brakes.

JC_ez

This is correct. Given the same diameter disc with the same brake lines and master cylinder, a larger pad and a smaller pad will give the same stopping power because the total applied force is the same. Without increasing the disc diameter or increasing the applied force, the stopping power will not change. What will change is that a larger pad and thicker disc will be able to handle heat better and thus will lead to more consistent performance. Most people that decide to do the Tundra brake upgrade do it because they run larger tires or tow a lot which puts a lot of extra stress on the stock brakes in terms of efficient heat dissipation. Some do it because they claim that their stock discs warp just from normal use.

berzerkrobot

I get that part - it explains that verbatim in my quote... I was curious as to how/why the tundra brakes make the truck stop faster. What JC talks about clears things up for me. I guess I had the wrong impression as to why people have been upgrading.

954rrmike

I did the 199 tundra upgrade about eight months ago and my rotors are warped as bad as the stock ones were. I do no towing and drive under normal conditions. I believe it comes down to the rotors we are buying are made in China crap. I do not feel this upgrade made enough difference to warrant the cost.

berzerkrobot

Man that suck! Im not sure your install process, but improper or lack of bedding your brakes can result in warped rotors.

Quattro15

Hrmm....good science on this page as far as braking is considered.

I dunno if this is worth it for me to continue or not? I MAY have to tow a pontoon boat in the future with my Tacoma. But the costs are killer! I've got 15 inch wheels so I'm talking new wheels, bigger tires to fit those wheels, new brake lines, new rotors. I've already got the calipers.

Well above $1k in parts if I bought it all new.

I may just wait until I NEED the Tundra brakes for added fade resistance. I'll see if my brakes will hold up well enough to be left alone with a boat in tow.

BajaRunner

Interesting...

Well, the tundra brake upgrade includes a larger piston, larger rotor and that will equate to a larger force for stopping a larger vehicle.

Larger rotor would stop better due to the "torque". Larger area caliper will fill up slower, but multiply its force from the incoming fluid...

I think the upgrade would be good to do, most people seem to have good results, but, I can see people embellishing the truth due to the amount of money they've spent on it..

Darksyde

Rather than spending all the money, time, and hassel on the Tundra brake upgrade; why not go with a good set of slotted rotors? The slotted rotors would disapate the heat better, reducing brake fade tremendusly, and the slotted rotors would probably cost a lot less also. Slotted rotors for a 2002 4Runner are about $300 a pair shipped. Now you don't have to mess around with other calipers, different size rims, etc.
Just my 2 cents.

hross14

I have been looking at Alum Brake calipers and the ones off a TTSupra look like they would work--kicker is they are cheaper than the the Tundra brake calipers......mounting holes would be the major question here.

But you only save like 20 lbs over the other calipers....

berzerkrobot

The reality is brake fade is only really prevalent under constant heavy braking, when they dont have time to cool off after getting really hot. like on the race track, or perhaps down long mountain passes. Neither of which I personaly am too concerned about.

Im looking for better stopping power/ shorter stop distances, because I feel like Im driving a frieght train. I think the best option is a set of better rotors and stickier pads.

JC_ez

-The Tundra piston is bigger, but the Tundra brake system is also different. I'm sure Toyota optimized all the brake system components to work together properly. Just changing the caliper and disc, but leaving the rest of the 4Runner brake system makes the hybrid system mismatched.

-Like you mentioned, for a larger piston, the force is multiplied, but the volume of fluid needed to move the piston increases. This means that leaving the stock 4Runner brake system and only changing to Tundra calipers and disc, more brake pedal travel will be needed to achieve the same piston displacement as in the stock 4Runner piston. Let's say the Tundra piston has twice the surface area of the 4Runner piston. That means that when using the 4Runner brake system with Tundra caliper and disc, that the force will double, but the brake pedal travel will also double (bad...mismatched system).

-From my understanding, the Tundra disc is the same diameter as the 4Runner disc. Therefore there is no change in torque.

-The Tundra disc is thicker and more substantial than the 4Runner disc. This makes the Tundra disc a bigger heatsink than the 4Runner disc.

Now, if one was to change the rest of the braking system to better match the Tundra calipers, then there may be some performance gains. I think the real potential of The Tundra system is that is should yield more consistent results during heavy use. I don't think the best stopping distance would change though.

BigBallsMcFalls

you need a tundra brake pedal linkage, tundra master cylinder,
tundra ABS system, and tundra brake lines if you want Tundra braking.
[oh and tundra rotors and calipers]


pushing a tundra caliper with a 4runner master is what was stated, same braking, just longer life less heat,
which means yes, you get a benefit if wheeling down the steeps all day. not stronger braking just less fade

but it will feel stronger when first installed because everything is fresh (once the pads are bedded,
unbedded pads are slippy)

cackalak han

RE: Shorter stopping distance.

Tires are the limiting factor here. Even with 15" wheeled rotors, you can lock up the wheels. There is plenty of brake power with any of the factory set up. So, if you want a shorter stopping distance, get some stickier/wider tires. I could give you some tire references for a car, but not a truck.

BTW, why do you want a shorter distance, anyway? Are you having problems right now? If so, just drive slower and brake earlier. It's a TRUCK, not a Lotus Elise. I hope your next questions aren't how to increase the slalom speed, mods to get 40MPG and run 10 sec. 1/4 mile times.

seaofnames

Adjusting the rear brakes properly allows the full effect of the tundra rotors/calipers shine through.

Thats my experience.

pillguy

THis is an interesting concept. I have 16" wheels, so my rotors are bigger than standard rotors on 15" runner.
I have been struggling with braking performance. I have replaced everything, rotors, drums, (NAPA) shoes (axle leak) and pads (carbon metallics not very good) so I am going back to toyota pads and see what happens.
Unfortunately, my truck has a lot of weight on it with bumpers, winch, etc.
I just need to get my brakes to lock up well.

I am ordering new toyota pads today and we well see what happens.
PS my cheap autozone rotors warped during the bedding in process.

pillguy

not to ask a dumb question, but how do you know if you have the rears adjusted properly? I know they should have just a bit of drag, but aren't they auto adjusting?

Nelsonmd

I think this is likely a big factor in the warping issue. The metals' crystal structure (especially over changing temperature) is greatly affected by the mix and casting process. If you have a warping problem, check where your rotors were made, and if possible, if they were made with recycled metal, or virgin material. Recycled metal will never be as good as virgin, but you will only find out when you see warp or don't.

Slotted rotors should not be a solution here. Sure, they may perform better (assuming you get high end ones and not cheaper ones that will break easily), but they shouldn't be necessary. If that is the only thing that fixes your problem, then you have not found the real problem.

roadrnnr

I did the upgrade about 6 months ago too. For me it was more about having the rotors last longer. The stock ones warp too fast. The thicker tundra ones just longer saving $$$

berzerkrobot

whoa you guys really dug up this thread from the dead!