LSUMatt1514

I've got 116k miles on my truck and everytime I have had my front end aligned, oil changed, and tires rotated at Firestone they have inspected my brakes and have yet to tell me that they need to be replaced. Over the past 5-6 months, I've started noticing some pretty bad shaking when I slow down from 50+ mph or so. I've always read and heard that this was a sign of warped rotors. I've been searching Yotatech for about an hour, particularly this thread...

https://www.yotatech.com/forums/show...tors+vibration

I've never had any sqeaking or grinding from my brakes, that's why I haven't changed them. I'm only doing it now to get the rotors inspected and because I feel that I need to at 116k miles. The dealer is going to inspect and re-face the rotors (if they're not warped and have to be replaced), install new pads, and inspect, clean, and adjust the rear brakes.

Can rotors warp before the brake pads wear out? I realize that warped rotors could be causing my vibration problem when braking but guess what, my vibration problem at 60+ mph is starting to come back. It was NOTICABLY better when I took the Revos off and installed the Cross Terrains and had them road force balanced with the Haweka adapter, but it's starting to come back. Not as bad as before, but it is coming back. In addition to my brake service tomorrow, I'm also going to have the dealer do the following..

1. Check driveshaft alignment
2. Re-torque the drive shaft bolts
3. Re-balance with their Hunter machine

Is there any way that warped rotors could cause my vibration at 60+ mph on the highway? I'm getting really, really, really pissed off at this point. Sorry for the mile long thread guys, but I'm venting.

Matt

firemedic

Yes rotors can warp before the pads wear out, it is generally a matter of heat which warps the rotor.

One other thing to check with the vibration is make sure all lug nuts are hand torqued to the proper ft-lbs.

Bighead

Whenever I have had that problem it turns out to be my rotors. If your lugnuts aren't torqued properly that can also speed up the warping.

Yes, like firemedic said, the rotors can warp before the pads are worn to the replacement point.

waskillywabbit

iTrader: (-1)

IMO, #1 reason you get wobbles and such is tiremonkeys torquing on your tires with an impact. :monkey:

LSUMatt1514

Brian,
I've never heard that before. It's going to the dealer tomorrow for a service and I'm going to get them to balance the tires again. Would you recommend that I get them to hand torque the lugnuts? I don't think I've ever seen a shop do that.

Matt

Rick F.

Be aware that Firestone should (but usually doesn't) use the adapter plate when they balance your tires, but also be aware that the balancing machine they typically use won't do the job that well. The Hunter is definately the way to go.

Most shops worth a darn will hand torque the lug nuts. I always insist on hand torqueing and watch the job. If they won't let me watch, they lose my business.

LSUMatt1514

What is the deal with hand torqueing the lugnuts? What's the difference between that and using an impact?

Matt

WT

Impact = Bad !!! can cause warpage of rotor.... from what I have read.

waskillywabbit

iTrader: (-1)

Steelies should be torqued to around 108 ft-lbs.

Alloys to around 86 ft-lbs.

Impact just goes until it stops and can't go no more.

If you gradually tighten the lugnuts using a torque wrench of by hand you get an even seal of the rim to the hub. If you impact one down at the time the first one is tight all the way down and pulls the others out of round ever so slightly on the seal and that is all it takes for a wobble.

Do yourself a favor, invest in a torque wrench because if you ever used one to put on a tire you'd see that 108 ft-lbs or 86 ft-lbs ain't no where near what an impact can do. You put the lugs on too tight and it can warp rotors, break lug studs, strip lugnuts...all sorts of bad stuff.

IMO, always hand tighten lugnuts and do it gradually. Rotating your own tires takes 15 minutes with some jackstands and a good floor jack tops and you know it has been done right.

When I first got my steelies on my 3rd gen w/ the 285s, wobble city. Came home, loosened the lugs, tightened by hand, no more wobble.

TACOMANATOR

I always tell the tire place the last time I had my tires rotated a different shop broke 2 studs with the impact wrench. They usually will not use it while putting my tires back on, or they turn the pressure way down.

LSUMatt1514

Ya'll have got me scared now. I'm taking my truck in tomorrow for a small checkup including new front brakes and a rotor inspection. My tires have been rotated numerous times over the last 3 years, and I would be willing to bet that not once were they hand torqued. I guess I'll find out if my rotors are warped tomorrow and if they are, I'm going to go get new ones instead of having them turn them. Thanks guys.

Matt

Nic

Even if you don't have a torque wrench, you can still loosen the lug nuts and tighten them all back down evenly. It may not be exact, but it will be pretty close and in all probability closer to spec. You will probably notice when you loosen them, just how darn tight they may be on there. I have had lug nuts on so tight that I have had to stand on my lug wrench and bounce up and down. I just knew I was about to break off a lug. This is because the grease monkeys at the tire shops go hog-wild with the air wrench.

You will be surprised at just how little an effort it takes to tighten to 86 pounds.

When I replaced my crappy Dunlops with Michelin Ltx M/Ss, I did not even let the tire shop put the tires on my truck for fear of overtightening and breaking a lug. I had steel wheels on it at the time and just dropped the alloys I purchased off. My plans were to take off my alloys every time I had a balance an rotation and put my old tires (dunlops) back on and drop my Michelins off. That way they never put an air wrench on my truck. I have since given my old tires/rims to my dad, so I can't do that any more. I dread the day, I have to get them rebalanced and rotated. I may do as suggested above and tell them to do it by hand. Its so hard to get good help these days.
My 84 Camry has one lug missing on each tire because the shops overtightening and breaking them off over the years. They always act like it isn't there fault too.

2001Millrunner

ah~~ the 60-70mph vibration...........I've learned to live with them. It magically disappears before/after that 10mph range. After Discount Tire store match balance my BFGs about 6 times(hunter,adapter)also tried 4 brand new set of tires under warranty, they were about to pry me out of BFGs and into Michelins or Yoks. I said hell no, I'll just live with it. I might try changing to new lugnuts.

Mr pogo

Impact guns are acceptable when used with the correct lugnut torque stick, lots of tire shops use them now.

Unhappy99

1. If they are Toyota rotors, then they are most likely warped. Don't bother getting another set of crappy Toyota rotors, you're just wasting money and encouraging frustration. Get Brembos.

2. Warped rotors do not cause the vibration at 60-70 mph. Tire balance and roundness do. Toyota truck wheels are lug centric, not hub centric, so be sure they use the proper wheel adapter when balancing. Also, get round tires to begin with. In my experience, Michelins and Yokohama are usually pretty good, BFGs are terrible. Others are in between. Try to get below 20lbs on the road force. I've also been demanding they use inside stick on balancing weights, even on dynamicly balanced tires. This reduces the likelihood of them flying off, as rim weights inevitably do, resulting in imbalance.

roger

Most impact guns that mechanics use are easily capable of 450 lb. feet of torque, and many are more powerful than that. That's about 5 times as much as spec.

As a tool, they are meant for loosening fasteners, not tightening. Techs like to use them to save time at the expense of doing a good job.

BTW, the dealer doesn't always do a competent job of balancing tires, even if they have a Hunter balancer. My dealer screwed mine up as part of my 90k service (which was mega-bucks ). I didn't find out until I took it elsewhere for the 105k tuneup and got a better balance job from an independent shop. So if your problem persists, consider taking it to another shop.

MvCrash

Greetings,
I woulld like to tell you that I purchased 2 new rotors for the taco for $80.00 and installed them myself along with new pads. it only took about an hour and for that price, why cut the rotors and have a deeper brake pedal? This was during the time that I was learning how difficult it is to balance the tires on a Taco/4Runner.
I finally have the balanced correctly which was done by the dealer near my house. I explained the problem, he showed me the TSB from the factory and then they balanced the tires perfectly. I can set the cruise on my Taco at any speed and the truck rides smooth as can be.
Don't settle for unbalanced tires or rotors that shake. besides the shaiking and wobble from the brakes or bad balancing will eventually cause front end problems.

LSUMatt1514

Well, I got the service done today. I had several things done and looked at including the rotors and sure enough, both were pretty severely warped. I gave the dealership the go ahead to do the install and then got really busy at work and it wasn't until lunch that I started researching rotors a little more thoroughly on Yotatech and realized that I should have waited and ordered a set of Brembos. Well, I called and I was too late. The rotors and brakes were changed and the tires were balanced and mounted on the truck. Much to my surprise (and I still am doubting it somewhat), Jeff told me that all four of the tires were out of balance. Like I said, I'm still finding that hard to believe but they did reduce my 60+ mph vibration some. It's still there a little bit. I just hope it doesn't come back again. As for the brakes, they feel great! Hopefully I can get another 120k out of this set of rotors. If anyone finds a miracle cure for this vibration, please share!!!!!!!

Matt

LSUMatt1514

I know this is a truck and built on a truck platform, but when driving 75 mph on a newly paved black top interstate with brand new Cross Terrains and a fresh balance job, I feel that there should be NO vibration at all. That's why I'm a little pissed that there is still some there. Will it ever be perfect or is the 3rd gen flawed and all we can hope for is "as good as it's gonna get"?

Matt

LSUMatt1514

The vibration is still there at 60+ mph. Damn, I'm tired of this. Do I try having them balanced at a third shop? First was A&R Tire (where I bought them) and then Limbaugh Toyota yesterday. I'm tired of screwing around with these freakin things. Both shops have used the Hunter machine with the Haweka adapter. The vibration is really no worse or better than before I took it into Limbaugh yesterday. A&R tells me when I leave their shop after buying them that they should ride smooth as glass. I then go to Limbaugh a couple weeks later (yesterday) and they tell me that all four were out of balance. I have never in my life seen anything like this. Why can't anyone find the problem? I hate to pay another $40 to have them balanced, but I'm considering trying another dealer to see if they have any luck. What mechanical problems could be causing this? BTW, I had the driveshaft U bolts re-torqued when Limbaugh had it and they were all fine. I'm sick of this!!!!!!!!!!

Matt