MTL_4runner

I just finished evacuating all the fluid in the brake system but when I took the truck out for a spin it really didn't seem very hard to me. When I was pumping the pedal during bleeding it seemed to be rock hard....then when you start the car.....pedal seems mushy again. Now I know the power assist can cause some of that but I was thinking there was still maybe some air in the system. Are there any other bleeders besides the ones at each wheel?

I thought there may be an air pocket lodged in the system somewhere and they located a bleeder to clear it?

Anyone know who has done this?

Should the break pedal ever get rock hard like a Honda does?

rimpainter.com

Did you follow the proper bleed sequence? Its not always "farthest" from the Master Cyl first. For example, on our Honda, its RR, RF, LR, LF. Not sure about the 4Runners though.

The pedal should be very firm after a few pumps with the engine off. It should be slightly mushy while pumping with the engine running. The RPM's will change slightly also while pumping.

MTL_4runner

It was rock hard with the engine off but when I turned the engine on it seemed to be not nearly as hard as I would expect. It certainly doesn't go anywhere near the floor but we had a 98 civic and if you even tapped the brake pedal you would be ass up in seconds.

I started at the 2 rear and bled them first, then moved to the front 2 to finish up. I was wondering if there are only those 4 brake bleeders on the whole car or if maybe I am missing one somewhere?

rimpainter.com

I would re-bleed.

amorphous

You didn't mess with the rear drums at all did you? That was my mistake, I recently did this and had my rears WAY out in left field adjustment. I played with the shoes, etc, however. If you didn't do this, skip the aforementioned.

there is the LSP/BV to bleed as well. d'jah do that?

-aaron

MTL_4runner

No I didn't do anything with the drums besides cracking the bleeder screw.

What is the LSP/BV and where is it located?
A pic would be nice if someone can point me to one.

Gadget

You should not be doing the pedal method. That is a good way to wreck you master cylinder.

You should be flushing the brakes with a power bleeder. You can get one for about $40 and it is without a doubt the very best way in the world to flush your brakes.

You can stop by my site for all the info on that.

If your truck has ABS you do not have a rear proportioning valve.

After you properly flush your brakes, adjust the rear drums and I think you will be very happy with the end result.

Gadget

www.GadgetOnline.com

MTL_4runner

I know Gadget, I wish I had one of those power bleeders but no one wants to ship to us canadians up north and I havenèt found one locally either. So I did my best with the pedal method until I can get down to the states to pick one up.

I did try bleeding one more time to see if I had any air bubbles but I get nothing but nice clean fluid coming out so I assume all is well there. I also adjusted the rear drums and it did get a little better. Maybe this is just in my head and they are just back to the way they always were. I like the pedal to be hard when I apply pressure but it could be that the master is going or that the rubber lines are stretching a bit over time.

How would I know if the master was going (or gone)?
Does it just go all of a sudden and you have no brakes or is it slowly losing pedal firmness over time?

Gadget

Performance Products ships to the North and they are now carrying the Motive Products power bleeder. Check them out.

It is a very nice tool.

Gadget

www.GadgetOnline.com

MTL_4runner

Hey Gadget or anyone else,
Any insight on the above issue as well?

Gadget

One way to tell is to push down on the pedal and hold it there for a few minutes. If it does not move further toward the floor over a few minutes time period you should be in good shape. You can also have someone look into the resivore when you do this. If the internal seals are leaking the fluid my bypass them and return to the resivore. Sometimes you can see bubbles or some other distrubance in the fluid during this test if the inner seals are leaking under pressure.

Gadget

www.GadgetOnline.com

MTL_4runner

OK, good to know.....and thanks for the help!!!

Erc

Just want to mention that my truck's brake pedal was soft from day 1 (2002 4Runner). Compared to my wife's altima, it takes about an extra inch of pedal travel to engage the brakes.
I don't think you'll be able to get the "rock-hard" feel without replacing your lines with aftermarket ones.

bamachem

One thing to remember here guys....

You are comparing stopping abilites of small, light cars to a 5000 pound truck. The 4Runner will not stop as well no matter what type of work you do on the brakes. You simply CANNOT compare it to a civic or an altima.

Erc

Agree with you 100%
However, with the car in park.. the brake pedal dives quite a bit before there's feedback. On the Altima, feedback is almost immediate. This has nothing to do with stopping distance. That was what I meant.

Gadget

Try adjusting the rear breaks.

I have a Maxima and yes the brakes are really nice on that car. Still the best feeling brakes I have ever driven was on a 1970 Mercedes I used to drive. They felt wonderful.

Gadget

www.GadgetOnline.com

MTL_4runner

I guess maybe I was having delusions of grandure about how the pedal would feel after replacing all the fluid in the system. My pedal seems quite hard once the brakes to engage, just seems to take some distance to engage them (more than I would like to have) and I don't feel it sinking at all so maybe it is just the lines are stretching a bit due to old age. I have also never had a vehicle with drums on it that had a hard pedal......maybe yet another reason for the somewhat mushy pedal....

Erc

Did that just a little while ago. E-brake fully engages with only 5 clicks, so I'm pretty sure the rear brakes are as tight as they can be without excessive drag.
When braking hard, the pedal feels plenty firm, further into travel, so I don't think there's air in the system either.
I think this is just how it is meant to be. Just something to get used to, I guess.

Erc

Yup! I think your brakes are just fine. Agree that it would be nice if it engaged more quickly (this is especially annoying in stop-and-go traffic). Also, don't think the age of lines is to blame.. as I said, mine has felt like this since day 1.

rimpainter.com

I disagree.

For example a 2000 4Runner will stop in 128 ft according to Edmonds. A 2000 Honda Civic will stop in 136 ft according to Edmonds.

In this case and many others, brake design is the key, not weight.

www.edmonds.com