airbags instead of coils!

Eric · 05-25-2005, 12:05 PM

I was talking to another 4runner owner about his version of fixing his saggin 2nd gen.... he poped the springs out, welded a airbag plates and shoved some airbags that he used to have on his mini truck in the spring location.

Now I know we are all pro-rock crawlers here, but if your not, and only do trails (old forest roads) what are the negatives to using airbags instead of springs?

I was thinking about how much I load up the rear of my 4runner, and the bags could be perfect to keeping the truck from sagging

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Unhappy99 · 05-25-2005, 01:43 PM

Airbags are great, unless they leak. Several of us here have airbags inside the coil springs and pump them up for towing. One of mine is now leaking after 3 years.

jimbo74 · 05-25-2005, 01:47 PM

it wount articulate very well and i could see blowing a bag..... inside the coil would be fine though, for occassional heavy laods... however i wouldnt trust a rubber bag to support a vehicle all the time

Albuquerque Jim · 05-25-2005, 02:34 PM

Actually they can articulate if cross linked...as far as using them full time. Semi's do...

jimbo74 · 05-25-2005, 03:11 PM

he isnt talking about air shocks, hes talking about air bags... unless you get the insane huge triple stack ones, there wont be much articulation at all, there jsut isnt enough room to do so... even with crosslinking..... bigrigs dont have much suspesnion travel and they arent meant for offroad... the oens that are setup for offroad, use actual leaf springs packs.....

Eric · 05-27-2005, 01:02 AM

I've seen the ones that go inside the springs, but this dude just took two bellow bags, welded a plate on the bottom spring perch, mounted something on the top (sorry I forgot the name, not big in the airbag lingo) and shoved them in, completely eliminating the springs

he had them cross linked, and said the anti-roll bars do a fine job of keeping the car from rolling around too much, however I would be a bit sceptical.

another thing he mentioned is that tripple bellow bags have 18 inches off lift

crosslink those puppies, and you'd have no problems with articulation!

I'm going to stop buy the shop he works at tomorrow, I'll try and grab some pics

jimbo74 · 05-27-2005, 01:06 AM

yeah until you articulate it until the bag blows... then what? you dont have a suspension to support itself.... talk about 3 wheel motin.... except one wheel smashed into the fender

MTL_4runner · 05-27-2005, 06:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jimabena74

yeah until you articulate it until the bag blows... then what? you dont have a suspension to support itself.... talk about 3 wheel motin.... except one wheel smashed into the fender

The airbags are a bit more durable than you might think (they have been used on production cars/trucks).

Here is an example of an install:
http://www.fourwheeler.com/howto/80258/
http://www.overlander.com.au/pg/equipment.php?id=29

ravencr · 05-27-2005, 08:04 AM

Why don't you get a set of Monroe Max-Air shocks instead that will help you with the sagging rear end and help carry additional loads too. I just bought a set from Advance Auto today, because after moving my gas tank to the rear spare tire location and towing my trailer with my ATVS on it, it's almost to the bumpstops. I'll be installing them today, so we'll see how much they help. I got the MA700's, which are comparable in length to the OME N86 Firms, which is what I have now.

Chris

Eric · 05-29-2005, 02:27 PM

INMO shocks should have nothing to do with supporting the vehicle, they should only be used to dampen.

**waskillywabbit** · 05-29-2005, 03:17 PM

Guy at work does all the airbag stuff, he has a dualie w/ them on there to raise/lower the rig, they are the rear suspension and his still rides, tows, does everything...sits at normal level (or wherever) when driving around, but sitting in the parking lot, it is on the ground...

Airbags for just riding around, sure...

Airbags for wheeling, no...

grandmasterE · 05-29-2005, 05:48 PM

Don't you guys remember the first rock buggies? The Sniper by avalanche engineerging had air bag suspension front and rear.

Also, about airbags supporting the vehicle all the time...every highway tractor runs solely on airbags...and have for years...I'd say they've proven themselves reliable.

Ironmike4x4 · 05-29-2005, 07:00 PM

If you're gonna go through all that trouble and still want to go offroading, why not just go for some type of hydraulic unit? I know that some company just recently tested some sort of hydraulic suspension setup on jeeps, I think I read it somewhere in 4wheel and offroad a few months back.

93ToyKid · 05-29-2005, 07:05 PM

The only thing that would concern me would be a severly misplaced stick or something that gets hung around the tire and punctures the airbag while on the trail. Very unlikely, but it could happen.

ravencr · 05-30-2005, 03:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 93ToyKid

The only thing that would concern me would be a severly misplaced stick or something that gets hung around the tire and punctures the airbag while on the trail. Very unlikely, but it could happen.

Well after driving 5 hours to our camping spot without the shocks installed, I installed them while camping and the drive back was totally different. Instead of sitting on the bump stops, I now ride 4-6 higher than them, and the ride is perfect. I'd highly recommend the Monroe Max air shocks if you have a sagging rear end.

Chris

grandmasterE · 05-30-2005, 03:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 93ToyKid

The only thing that would concern me would be a severly misplaced stick or something that gets hung around the tire and punctures the airbag while on the trail. Very unlikely, but it could happen.

I hope I'm not playing the devils advocate too much here..but that same stick could easily dismount your coil spring (under the right freaky-deaky circumstances, assuming you installed the airbag in the factory coil location). It would be a heck of a lot easier to install a new airbag on the trail than to reseat a coil.

And besides...I'm sure most of you actual wheelers have seen many leaf springs break over the years. That's never convenient. An extra airbag would be small to carry, light, and easy to chage.

I hope I'm not pissing anyone off here, but I just like to see new ideas in action. I realize that newer doesn't mean better, and that for every 10 ideas 1 might be useful, but if someone wants to try it, lets wait and see their results, and offer as much help as we can along the way.

CynicX · 05-30-2005, 04:18 PM

I know a guy who had a bagged Jeep Rubicon on 36's I think. They were designed for offroad. He could lower it down for the street and jack that thing WAY up for offroad. It was like a monster truck. Not only did he not have problems he faired better then people with lifts on 35+ tires.

Only problem with them is that its just something else to break and alot of components.

Ganoid · 05-30-2005, 07:10 PM

It will never work!! (Ohh and BTW the sky is falling)

\/ \/ \/ \/ (not mine) \/ \/ \/ \/

Ohh did I mention those are 37's

Ironmike4x4 · 05-30-2005, 08:45 PM

I think I remember seeing that truck before. I'm quite impressed by the flex.

CynicX · 05-30-2005, 08:59 PM

be neat being able to lean the truck....could take on some interesting terrain at interesting angles if you could lean the weight

Ganoid · 05-30-2005, 09:50 PM

Its a local shop that built it. All the bags are capable of independant control. Its still a work in progress currently running a TPI 350 connected to a TH350. He was still working on brakes and drive lines for those full width chevy axles that he welded on both ends. I think he said the bags are 15" travel but all of the pics I have are at full lift. When he deflates it down to minimum it looks just like any other truck running a 4" lift with 35's only they are 37's

ravencr · 05-31-2005, 08:20 AM

Hey guys, I just started a post about my experience with my new Monroe MA700 air shocks here: http://www.yotatech.com/showthread.php?t=60181 if anyone's interested! It's a quick and easy way to eliminate the sagging rear end.

Chris

Eric · 06-02-2005, 01:05 AM

I think that is a bit extreme!

I'm thinking of this as a solution to having the truck look like it has a 4 inch lift in the front and stock ride height in the rear.

I'm going to the shop that the dude works at tomorrow to talk to him more about it.... My digi cam was sent out for warranty otheriwse I'd snap some pics for you.

ravencr · 06-02-2005, 03:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Eric

I think that is a bit extreme!

What's extreme?

Quote:

I'm thinking of this as a solution to having the truck look like it has a 4 inch lift in the front and stock ride height in the rear.

I'm going to the shop that the dude works at tomorrow to talk to him more about it.... My digi cam was sent out for warranty otheriwse I'd snap some pics for you.

ravencr · 06-07-2005, 03:15 AM

Guys, I'm selling my Air Lift Outback 1000 Kit for $100 shipped if anyone's interested.

Chris

05-25-2005, 01:43 PM	#2 (permalink)
Unhappy99 Registered User Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Albuquerque, NM Posts: 381	Airbags are great, unless they leak. Several of us here have airbags inside the coil springs and pump them up for towing. One of mine is now leaking after 3 years. __________________ 03 Dodge Ram 2500 CTD...its amazing Ex: 1999 4Runner JT3HN86R1X0199261...Now somebody elses Karl Malone Toyota 'Certified' POS Legendary Toyota quality is exactly that: A thing of legend. Defective fuel gauge - 'Certified' Defective brake rotors - 'Certified' Defective axle seals - 'Certified' Defective heater diverter - 'Certified' etc. etc. etc.

05-25-2005, 02:34 PM	#4 (permalink)
Albuquerque Jim Contributing Member Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Albuquerque, NM Posts: 2,570	Actually they can articulate if cross linked...as far as using them full time. Semi's do... __________________ '00 SR5, "Highlander" Dual Cases, Aisin Hubs, E-Lock'd, Cryo'd, Chromo'd, ARB'd, 315's, Sonoran Steel Bumper, Lift & UCA's, 4 Crawl 1" BL, Armored...etc. F-Toy #081 in progress Dual Cases, 30 Splines, 5.71's, E-lockers, Hydro-Assist, 37's, DOM Hendrix Chassis, 80Proof, ORS, Sonoran Steel...etc.

05-27-2005, 01:02 AM	#6 (permalink)
Eric Registered User Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Fresno Posts: 192	I've seen the ones that go inside the springs, but this dude just took two bellow bags, welded a plate on the bottom spring perch, mounted something on the top (sorry I forgot the name, not big in the airbag lingo) and shoved them in, completely eliminating the springs he had them cross linked, and said the anti-roll bars do a fine job of keeping the car from rolling around too much, however I would be a bit sceptical. another thing he mentioned is that tripple bellow bags have 18 inches off lift crosslink those puppies, and you'd have no problems with articulation! I'm going to stop buy the shop he works at tomorrow, I'll try and grab some pics __________________ Karl Kraus --Education is a crutch with which the foolish attack the wise to prove that they are not idiots.

05-29-2005, 02:27 PM	#10 (permalink)
Eric Registered User Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Fresno Posts: 192	INMO shocks should have nothing to do with supporting the vehicle, they should only be used to dampen. __________________ Karl Kraus --Education is a crutch with which the foolish attack the wise to prove that they are not idiots.

05-29-2005, 03:17 PM	#11 (permalink)
waskillywabbit Super Moderator-Sponsoring Member Staff Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Tuscaloosa, AL Posts: 14,548	Guy at work does all the airbag stuff, he has a dualie w/ them on there to raise/lower the rig, they are the rear suspension and his still rides, tows, does everything...sits at normal level (or wherever) when driving around, but sitting in the parking lot, it is on the ground... Airbags for just riding around, sure... Airbags for wheeling, no... __________________ WabFab Off-Road, LLC MySpace Twitter Facebook 7th Annual South East 4Runner Jamboree, 2010 The toughest part of a Jeep is the chick driving it. WabFab Off-Road 4th Anniversary Sale

05-25-2005, 01:47 PM	#3 (permalink)
jimbo74 Banned Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Nor*Cal Posts: 6,582	it wount articulate very well and i could see blowing a bag..... inside the coil would be fine though, for occassional heavy laods... however i wouldnt trust a rubber bag to support a vehicle all the time

05-25-2005, 03:11 PM	#5 (permalink)
jimbo74 Banned Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Nor*Cal Posts: 6,582	he isnt talking about air shocks, hes talking about air bags... unless you get the insane huge triple stack ones, there wont be much articulation at all, there jsut isnt enough room to do so... even with crosslinking..... bigrigs dont have much suspesnion travel and they arent meant for offroad... the oens that are setup for offroad, use actual leaf springs packs.....

05-27-2005, 01:06 AM	#7 (permalink)
jimbo74 Banned Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Nor*Cal Posts: 6,582	yeah until you articulate it until the bag blows... then what? you dont have a suspension to support itself.... talk about 3 wheel motin.... except one wheel smashed into the fender

05-27-2005, 08:04 AM	#9 (permalink)
ravencr Registered User Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Severance, CO Posts: 4,728	Why don't you get a set of Monroe Max-Air shocks instead that will help you with the sagging rear end and help carry additional loads too. I just bought a set from Advance Auto today, because after moving my gas tank to the rear spare tire location and towing my trailer with my ATVS on it, it's almost to the bumpstops. I'll be installing them today, so we'll see how much they help. I got the MA700's, which are comparable in length to the OME N86 Firms, which is what I have now. Chris

05-29-2005, 05:48 PM	#12 (permalink)
grandmasterE Registered User Join Date: May 2005 Location: Calgary, AB Posts: 22	Don't you guys remember the first rock buggies? The Sniper by avalanche engineerging had air bag suspension front and rear. Also, about airbags supporting the vehicle all the time...every highway tractor runs solely on airbags...and have for years...I'd say they've proven themselves reliable.

05-29-2005, 07:05 PM	#14 (permalink)
93ToyKid Registered User Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: High Point, NC/School at NC State Posts: 387	The only thing that would concern me would be a severly misplaced stick or something that gets hung around the tire and punctures the airbag while on the trail. Very unlikely, but it could happen.

05-30-2005, 04:18 PM	#17 (permalink)
CynicX Contributing Member Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Maryland Posts: 2,371	I know a guy who had a bagged Jeep Rubicon on 36's I think. They were designed for offroad. He could lower it down for the street and jack that thing WAY up for offroad. It was like a monster truck. Not only did he not have problems he faired better then people with lifts on 35+ tires. Only problem with them is that its just something else to break and alot of components. __________________ 06 Subaru WRX

05-30-2005, 07:10 PM	#18 (permalink)
Ganoid Registered User Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Salem,Oregon Posts: 508	It will never work!! (Ohh and BTW the sky is falling) \/ \/ \/ \/ (not mine) \/ \/ \/ \/ Ohh did I mention those are 37's __________________ 1990 Xcab beast of burden 3.0 Rebuild/Precision balanced w/OS valves Custom ported/welded Intake manifolds Downey headers, Jacobs Ign 4" Trail Gear SAS + rear Kit R151 + Dual cases (2.28+4.7) 5.29's,Tru Trac/Lockright on 35 BFG's 140A GM CS144 alt/Hyd assist steering DOA Racing = $1200 lesson in who NOT to deal with Last edited by Ganoid; 05-30-2005 at 07:19 PM.

05-30-2005, 08:59 PM	#20 (permalink)
CynicX Contributing Member Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Maryland Posts: 2,371	be neat being able to lean the truck....could take on some interesting terrain at interesting angles if you could lean the weight __________________ 06 Subaru WRX

05-30-2005, 09:50 PM	#21 (permalink)
Ganoid Registered User Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Salem,Oregon Posts: 508	Its a local shop that built it. All the bags are capable of independant control. Its still a work in progress currently running a TPI 350 connected to a TH350. He was still working on brakes and drive lines for those full width chevy axles that he welded on both ends. I think he said the bags are 15" travel but all of the pics I have are at full lift. When he deflates it down to minimum it looks just like any other truck running a 4" lift with 35's only they are 37's __________________ 1990 Xcab beast of burden 3.0 Rebuild/Precision balanced w/OS valves Custom ported/welded Intake manifolds Downey headers, Jacobs Ign 4" Trail Gear SAS + rear Kit R151 + Dual cases (2.28+4.7) 5.29's,Tru Trac/Lockright on 35 BFG's 140A GM CS144 alt/Hyd assist steering DOA Racing = $1200 lesson in who NOT to deal with

05-31-2005, 08:20 AM	#22 (permalink)
ravencr Registered User Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Severance, CO Posts: 4,728	Hey guys, I just started a post about my experience with my new Monroe MA700 air shocks here: http://www.yotatech.com/showthread.php?t=60181 if anyone's interested! It's a quick and easy way to eliminate the sagging rear end. Chris

06-02-2005, 01:05 AM	#23 (permalink)
Eric Registered User Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Fresno Posts: 192	I think that is a bit extreme! I'm thinking of this as a solution to having the truck look like it has a 4 inch lift in the front and stock ride height in the rear. I'm going to the shop that the dude works at tomorrow to talk to him more about it.... My digi cam was sent out for warranty otheriwse I'd snap some pics for you. __________________ Karl Kraus --Education is a crutch with which the foolish attack the wise to prove that they are not idiots.

06-07-2005, 03:15 AM	#25 (permalink)
ravencr Registered User Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Severance, CO Posts: 4,728	Guys, I'm selling my Air Lift Outback 1000 Kit for $100 shipped if anyone's interested. Chris

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