03TRDBlack

http://pesn.com/2005/03/17/6900069_Acetone/

http://www.timebomb2000.com/vb/showthread.php?t=143848

Check out these links. What does everything think about this? Anyone ever tried it to see if it actually works without screwing up your engine?

mike_d

as a chemist, let me call bull˟˟˟˟˟.

first: if fuel milage could be improved that easily, don't you think that the car companies would have already done that, especially since the CAFE regulations are geting stricter.

second: the reason they give (helps fuel vaporization) is not valid. the fuel is already vaporized. if you're having problems vaporizing fuel then you need new injectors. and it would show up as a CEL. any unvaporized fuel would come out as increased hydrocarbons in the exhaust and the O2 sensor would see that and tell you something was wrong

third: acetone is great at disolving stuff, especially any rubber hoses/seals that it may pass through

i could go on, but i should get back to work. any time gas prices start to rise, all kinds of people start to adversite "secrets" that improve milage. the same thing happen during the oil crisis of the 70's. i'm about to write another rant about gas milage in this thread: https://www.yotatech.com/forums/f2/improved-gas-mileage-56008/ where i'll talk about how to save gas.

HaveBlue

I love that - "If it actually improved blah blah blah, why don't they include it in blah blah blah?"

If ceramic composite rotors and pads stop faster, why aren't they standard equipment on all vehcile with a GVWR greater than 3,000 pounds?
If turbochargers and superchargers effectively add power, why aren't they standard on all engines?
If Goodyear Assurance Triple Treads with Run Flat are the best tire available, why aren't they standard on all cars?

Fuel is not VAPORIZED at the injector, it is ATOMIZED. Big difference. Atomization of fuel carries greater density than vaporized fuel. Gasoline HAS to be atomized. It will not burn efficiently if vaporized. If it were vaporized, the O2 to gas ratio would be too great and ignition would not occur.

Anyone care to guess what one of the ingredients of off-the-shelf radiator cleaner is? Acetone.

Ehinfinity

mineral spirts and naptha, are also a home remedy for a fuel injector cleaner, not to say i would ever use it unless

eric

HaveBlue

Yes, Naptha auto parts is good. Oh, wait...that's NAPA.

03TRDBlack

Amen!

mike_d

these are all valid replies to my statements. i apolgize for not being clear enough and just ranting without presenting my reasoning.

i will try to address them as best as i can. instead of saying "if it actually improved blah blah blah, why don't they include it in blah blah blah", i should have been more specific. i probably should have said, "if it actually improved the customers perception blah blah blah at a cost lower than than the customer wants to pay then why don't they include it in blah blah blah"

i'm not a brake expert, so i may be off base here, but don't ceramic brakes work terrible when cold. they're great for racing when you can keep heat built up in them, but for day-to-day driving, i would guess they're scary. more importantly, they don't make the car feel better to the potential buyer to make it worth the cost to put them on the car.

turbochargers: lag and extra warm up/cool down time is inconvient for most people. we're enthusiasts on this board, and we'll put up with inconveniences for the added benefit.

supercharges: i don't have a good explanation, i think they should be standard equipment. but maybe it's just because it raises the price of a car more than the the percieved added benefit to the buyer.

cost. again, people may not want to pay for that because it's not worth it to them. the goal for cars is to put the cheapest stuff on there, and charge as much as you can for it.

fair enough. i agree that the fuel is atomized. and you can replace vaporized in my comment with atomized, but everything else still is valid. if you have unburnt fuel coming out the exhaust the O2 sensor will see it and either lean out the mixture or throw a CEL.

that doesn't surprise me. as i said acetone is great at dissolving stuff.

so back to my original argument: (conspiricy theories aside) if fuel milage could be improved by 15-35% as the link says, and it cost less to buy the acetone and mix it with the fuel, then it would have been done already. my guess is that IF (and that's a big if) this did increase fuel milage, the costs associated do not even out. if they did, i'm sure there's a trucking company that already does this (granted, this is talking about gas and not diesel). or how about the oil companies that spend millions on chemists to develop the next gasoline additive so they can market their gas as better than their competitors? if adding a little acetone made milage that much better, then i'm sure there would be a oil company out there advertising "hey buy our fuel, you'll get better milage!" and they could charge a slight premium for the special fuel.

there is no magic thing out there that will make drastic fuel milage improvements - or maybe i should add: and costs associated with improving fuel milage are not offset by the cost of fuel saved (at today's fuel prices). with the market for cars so crowded, if a car company had something magical that would make their car get better milage (and still perform as a normal car), you can bet they'd do it. but in reality, any improvements would cost more money than is saved over the normal life of a car.

example: i drive 10,000 miles a year. if i use the low end estimate of my fuel milage (18mpg). then i burn about 560 galons of fuel a year. let's take a high end estimate of fuel prices: $3 a gallon. that's about $1700 a year in fuel. best case senario, the magic solution will double my fuel milage to 36mpg, i only save about $850 a year in fuel. think of any mod you could do your car that could double your fuel milage AND be cheap enough to be worth saving $70/month in fuel costs.

hamstrungtaco

so all in all its not recommended

HaveBlue

mike_d-

I should have clarified a few things, too. I got a little carried away as well.
yes, ceramic brakes are junk in cold. They are only truly effective when blister hot.


I have a question for you though...is acetone water soluable? I'm racking my brain trying to remember. If so, that would be an even greater reason NOT to put it in the gas tank. I'm thinking it is water soluable and that's why it's an ingredient in radiator cleaner. But, as many of us have seen on our V6s with HG issues, oil (petroleum) and antifreeze (water/glycol) do not mix well.
Also, isn't acetone (pure) lighter than gasoline/petroleum? If so, wouldn't seperation be a problem?

Roadtripr

http://peswiki.com/index.php/Directo..._Fuel_Additive

Intersting it seems some people have tested it with varying effect (if you believe all you find on the internet)

ORB

I think some guy on TTORA said he was going to try it. I don't think I'd do it, but I'd be interested in the results...

photoleif

fyi, here is a datasheet on acetone. it is water-soluble, in fact 1:1. given what it does to gummy residue, it's no surprise it's useful as a cleaner for various car parts, but i'd be very skeptical of burning it as an additive.

colsoncj

Working for a company that builds these things, and being in the automotive industry I can answer this one...

First these decrease the pumping losses, thereby increasing the efficiency and overall output of the motors. If you look at various foriegn automakers, and even some domestic, they are rapidly becoming more common (look at audi, just about every single motor has a turbo for these reasons). Second, they would be standard on every vehicle except that vehicle manufacturers don't have to use them to get the better fuel economy, so right now they're just offering them for the bonus of power. The more time passes, the more and more they will become standard. You can drop displacement, add boost, get better gas mileage, and equal power compared to a larger displaced less efficient motor. As for lag time, variable displacement turbos which are becoming more and more of the standard almost negate any lag time. and like previously said "the goal for cars is to put the cheapest stuff on there, and charge as much as you can for it." Sorry to hijack a little there and get on a tangent.

I wouldn't dare add that stuff to my truck, but I have used it as a cleaner.....

DMG

Just by someone who has never tried it. (Mike D) My tank has 2 ounces per 10 gallons acetone in it right now. As soon as I run a couple of tanks through to get an average I will post the results.

And Mike D, do you really think oil companies WANT to improve fuel economy?

DMG

4RUNR

You do realize that that is a 1:640 ratio? Or 0.16%? That is one sixth of one percent.

I would be willing to drink a glass of water with acetone in it in that ration. Nothing will happen to me, nothing can happen to the fuel systems like that website claims, and it will not influence MPG one bit.

At least you won't ever be able to prove to anyone even half intelligent that any change in MPG was the result of acetone.

4RUNR

One must be REALLY thick to buy into this blatant snakeoil sales pitch.

And this is who is behind the scam.

And this...

..means you will not see any gain, but you should not give up and buy some more to supposedly find that elusive "narrow peak effeciency" from the stuff they sell.

DMG

Yes that is a small percentage. 2-3 ounces per 10 gallons is what is recommended. That is what makes it cost effective if it works.The stuff cost $12 for a gallon and has plenty of other uses around the shop if it doesn't improve mileage. Like I said, once I run a couple of tanks through the T100 I will post up about the results. Unfortunately I remembered to reset the PCM 100 miles into this tank of gas so even if it works, I may not see an improvement because it won't be at its most efficient while the learn tables refill.

Right now the mileage is about 17 mpg with 75% city 25% highway commute miles.

DMG

03TRDBlack

That was me. I have some in the tank right now, but it'll take me the rest of the week/weekend to get the tank empty. I'll keep you posted. Right now I get 16 mpg to right below 17 mpg depending on the week.

mike_d

no i don't really think oil companies want to improve economy. what they want to improve is the money they bring in. so if one company discovered that adding a very cheap additive (compared to the other stuff they add to gasoline) cause their gas to get better milage, you can bet the marking boys would be on that in an instant. they could easily charge more for the better gas and ultimately bring in more money.

4RUNR

Science, logic, reason or even common sense does not work with those folks.
It's amazing who can get on the internet these days.