yamagirl

Hi folks, were wanting to install a Toytec adjustable coil lift to gain 2.5" on our 98 and wanted to ask off road use aside how detrimental will the added angles on the front CV`s ball joints etc be as far as accellerated wear. The intent is to also add a ARB front bumper with winch and gain a tad more firmness when loaded with gear all the way around. All things considered with factory springs/options and wear on things there must be a maximum safe axle angle and not a "dont lift past 2 or 3 inches" the axle can go before self destruction of CV`s,any input would be great.
Thank You.

FogRunner

An overall good way to tell is looking at ribs on the bellows of the CV axle boots, if their a rubbing the angle is too hard.

The problem with asking for exact angles is that tolerances vary from axel MFG. So some of a higher quality might take a bit more angle before taking damage.

The other issue is how much torque is being applied to the joint/axel at that angle. CV joints can tolerate allot more angle abuse under low torque situations. There are several guys that have trashed CV joints under conditions that didn't exceed the rule of thumb of 2.5"-3.0" but had them go from no tracton to full traction.

As far as the ball joints, you say you have a 98 runner but didn't say how many miles. In my personal experiences with the front ends of 3rd gen runners and tacos if the vehicle has more than 125,000 miles, you should change the ball joints when putting a lift on.

Ball joints tend to "wear in" in one spot for a certain vehicle height but when you lift if your going to notice the ball joint is sitting in a totally different angle. The join will experience excellerated wear at that angle and could pop out pretty easy over time.

Its also very easy to change the ball joints while you have the suspension "unloaded" since the shock/strut assembly will be out while your replacing it.

And last but not least while you have the suspension unloaded and doing ball joints give the CV axles and their boots a REALLY good looking over because at this point a new CV axle is really easy to change and new ones are only 50$ at Oreilly auto.

But back to the original question aside from the boots ribs rubbing each other and 2.5"-3" rule of thumbs there isn't hard numbers. The rule of thumbs have come from allot of guys abusing their suspension off road and seeing what breaks and what lasts.

Also instead of the Toytec coil overs you might want to consider a set of 883 springs and the OME front shocks. I have then on mine with an ARB and winch and it gave me 3" of lift and it rides REALLY good. And are about half the price.

yamagirl

Thank You for the great info, Id like to ask if O/E Toyota ball joints are worth the cost and better than Moog or ?? and also what setup are you running in back to compensate for the front lift. BTW, ours has just under 170K on it and is driven only 2-3 a week or maybe 10K a year for fishing trips and desert exploration play but nothing to serious trail wise. Any links to pics of yours, it sounds about what were lookin for when its all said and done.
Thanks again.

scuba

Just for conversation purposes.

My truck (99 Taco) has 110k, 2.5" lift on for about 6K.
I was under it the other day and my lower ball jounts are leaking grease, So ill be getting at those soon.
I've never heard anything bad about moog.

TRD parts wants 91$ for my truck, 83$ for yours..
Linky

Moog wants 70$ for mine..
Moog Site


So Idk, Guess I have some research to do for lower ball joints..


Good luck

FogRunner

Are the OEM Toyota ball joints are worth the money thats a mixed answer. Some swear the moogs are great and I've seen some say they killed a set of moogs in 50K miles.

My opinion on it is the Toyota OEM balljoint is the best to go with, yes it a bit more but if you order them from the internet sales depts of champion or TRDPARTS4u.com you can get them are a reasonable price.

When you look at what can happen if a ball joint fails it not worth taking chances to save some money. A ball joint failure at lowspeed can cause allot of damage, at high speed it can total a rig and be fatal.

I'm not trying to use scare tactics to push my point and can't stand people/companies that do (ATD ALARMS LOL). its just IMHO there is too much to liability with cheap ball joints.

As far as the rear I run 891 OME springs and shocks with a Sonora Steel adjustable traction bar to compensate for the lift.

brian2sun

HA! I hate those ridiculous commercials w/ burglars breaking into people's houses in broad daylight, after they've been spying on the owners and KNOW they're home. And then the burglars act so surprised when they kick open the door and see the family inside screaming, so they run away as fast as they can...But I'm sure ATD will track them down to their crack house and make sure they never kick a door down ever again.

scuba

brian2sun

Sorry Scuba, just thought Fogrunner's statement was funny. Back on topic now:

So, has anyone ever had a ball joint fail and cause serious damage/injury? I replaced my (stock) upper ball joints not too long ago and the lowers were still good at that time. Now the lowers are leaking. My alignment guy said don't worry about it, they will still last for years. Is this true? Am I really taking my chances?

scuba

https://www.yotatech.com/forums/f123...r-dead-177537/


https://www.yotatech.com/forums/f2/l...t-axle-185619/

brian2sun

Wow, looks like I'll be doing my lowers this weekend. Thanks Scuba.

ESQ

You can do a small diff drop to help your CV angles, too.

FogRunner

Bottom ball joints are really easy just be sure to use some blue lock tight on the bolts when you torque them up.

Also don't try and use a pickle fork to pop them out it. You end up beating yourself to death and when the thing finally pops out you can tear your CV boot(ask me how I know LOL). Rent the large pitman arm/tie rod end puller (u shapped with a screw at the bottom of the U). They work great only you won't think they are doing anything when your turning the screw. Just all of a sudden BAAAM (to quote Emeril) and the bottom joint will be free.

brian2sun

Good stuff - thanks. I've been told the new LBJs pop in as you tighten (no pressing needed), is that true?

Yamagirl,
I have the exact set-up that your thinking about doing (except the winch) and I run a 1" diff drop. My stock CVs didn't like the lift. My new axles have been doing fine now for a long time and I pound on them a lot. I think my old CVs just couldn't hang w/ the new angle because they were at stock angle for so long before I lifted it (like 11 years).

Obviously (from my previous posts) my LBJs need attention and I've already done my uppers, so I guess that answers the question about accelerated wear on the ball joints.

FogRunner

Yes the lower ball joints are totally bolt in. The bottom of the ball joint has one big bolt that goes through lower control arm and the top of the ball joint has four bolts that hold it to the axle/spindle carrier assembly.

The bottom ball joints a cake walk compared to the top ones. The easiest way to do the tops is just unbolt the axle and slip the whole spindle carrier arm off the car and press the upper joint with it on the work bench. And while your in there replace the CV axle (only $50 a side) since the old ones don't like to be put at a hard angle with a lift.

okie81

I recently put the toytec coilovers on and they're great. My CV angles look good, just don't forget the differential drop.

Senna001

This thread woke me up on ball joints...never thought something like that would happen..:/

Returning on the lift, any of you guys know something on the "snake racing 4"lift" (snakeracing.com)...It is a nice package to look at...but don't know nothing about it.

Anyone has any ideas on it?

They got some cool vids on YouTube aswell..

Thanks guys

scuba

Did you notice they are in Australia..?

Senna001

lol, I did, but you still can buy them

Does anyone have tried this snake package...if not, what best brand package would you recommend? something very similar ... cause it seems to be a great deal

greggasner

I raised my 99 tacoma 4" in the front (ADD) and it lasted almost 3 years until the boots on the axles gave up the ghost. I am lowering the front from 1" to 1.5", and will try this new angle on the cv's. I hope this one lasts. This truck however, was not used OFF ROAD!

Senna001

Wow that is some little life there :/
Apart fron the snake racing package I found this cool package too, cheaper and seems more tough http://www.4wd1.com/hilux_ifs.htm

Look at the bottom of the page,...the yellow truck...

A little confused on what to buy if I have to,but this other package seems better with crawler leaf springs and rancho shocks,...nw I'm confused......