NorCalVP

Ok it appears as thought i may have finally fixed my crappy brake problem. Ever since i bought this truck my biggest complaint was the spongy brakes. If you ever had to do a panic stop...... well good luck with that.... Anyway stopping distance was terrible, it almost felt like the ABS was fighting against you, pedal feel was soft, and brake response was very low.

Things i have done since i bought it a year ago..
First week i had it.
Changed the front pads with OEM pads, Power bled the entire system (probably 10 or more times) made sure the front rotors weren't warped (they were a little but not enough to bother me.)

Still the same problems

a few months ago, i replaced the rotors thinking that maybe the little amount they were warped was causing the piston in the caliper to get pushed back...

Still had the same problem


Within the last week, after i almost nailed someone trying to do a panic stop that should have been no problem.
I got a set of Brembo rotors, PF pads for the front. A few weeks ago i noticed some oil on the Left rear wheel (bad axle seal) so i bought a set of OEM rear shoes off of someone here, and a new axle seal from Toyota. When i got the rear drum off it looked like someone poured crude oil all over the brakes, so i dissassembled everything cleaned it up, installed the new seal, new shoes and put everything back together.

Braking was a bit better, but not good enough. So i started to adjust the rear brakes little by little, and sure enough, that pedal got firmer and firmer. So now my 4Runner stops like i think it should. The pedal is still a little soft (but i think it's the nature of the beast.)

So the moral of the story is if you have spongy brakes (first make sure you don't have a leaky axle seal) but adjust those rear brakes.

Steve

aowRS

Steve,
Good writeup. I also dealt with sub-par braking and severly warped rotors for more than three years. I finally reached my tolerance level last month and installed a new set of Brembo replacement rotors and Hawk Street Performance pads. The difference in braking feel is insane. I can actually bring the 4Runner to a smooth and solid stop without standing on the pedal. The tradeoff is noticeable brake dust on the front rims - but that's just fine for me. I did adjust the rears properly a short time ago, so it finally stops like it should.
As an aside, I always try to slip the tranny into neutral at a stop light and lightly apply the parking brake. Sitting at a light with your foot on the brake pedal can cause the rotors to warp, since the pads are clamped onto the hot rotor surface.

Andreas

User 051420

Let us know how long those rears stay in adjustment. It seems like my self adjusters are fighting against my settings. 30k miles later, I still have crappy brakes.......

ErikB

Good to know!

I too am curious if there is something wrong w/ the adjusters...? Do you use your e-brake regularly?

FWIW, I tried PF pads on my D44 and they sucked, IMHO. They only grabbed good when hot (not normal driving). Switched back to some cheap NAPA pads and braking was much better during normal driving. Those Hawk pads mentioned above sound good though- they advertise that they grab harder hot or cold, which most "performance" (race) pads don't. Raybestos Brutestop was another pad recommended to me for good cold brake performance.

bamachem

You adjust the rears by putting the truck in REVERSE, then going about 3-4 MPH in REVERSE, you pull up and release the E-Brake rapidly, basically ratcheting the rear drums - FOOT OFF THE PEDALS. You will FEEL the rear brakes get tighter and tighter. You should do this about once per month or about every 1000 miles to keep them adjusted. You should only be able to pull your E-brake up 5 clicks AT MOST on a good yank.

Mad Chemist

Andy,

Do you keep the button on the brake handle pressed in while doing this?

bamachem

It's easier that way. You'll have to ratchet the handle 20-50 times depending on how badly they're out of adjustment.

I just push in the button and keep it there, then "pump" the handle up and down while keeping my foot of the brake while rolling in reverse. I usually do it on a hill in my neighborhood so I don't have to touch the gas either. 3-5MPH is plenty fast enough.

Del

castrolSi

You can check to see if this is your problem by putting 4 or 5 clicks on your
E brake, and then testing your brake pedal. This doesn't help my spongy brake
problem. I am moving onto new front calipers, since everything else has been done.

~castrol

2001Millrunner

this is REALLY good to know, thanks bamachem

JEDI87

I have a 91 4runner and my pedal feels the same way.It goes to the floor if I have to hit them really hard all of a sudden.I replaced the calipers,rotors,and pads and blead the system twice.I had the backs looked at and they said they were fine.Do you think mine could be out of adjustment anyway?My ebrake handle pulls out all the way before it will even grab.

bamachem

Then it's out of adjustment. Like I said...'

You're E-Brake should click no more than 5 or MAYBE 6 times for a FULL GRAB or your rears are out of adjustment and forcing your front rotors to do all the work to stop the truck

When mine is "fresh" (recent adjustment), I can't pull the handle hard enough to get 7 clicks. Period.

AUJWE

Andy,

I just wanted to say thanks for the e-brake tip. My truck has been shaking while braking lately and I thought that I may have had warped rotors. But, it wasn't occuring on a regular basis. Well, I just did the e-brake tip that you mentioned and all I can say is wow. No more shaking, as of yet anyway. My brakes feel firmer, no spongy brakes anymore. And also it takes a lot less click on the handle to get the e-brake to hold. I'm thinking that they were way out of adjustment and they were causing the front brakes to work to hard. Does it work the same on 2nd gen 4Runners? Thanks again for the tip.

Joey

bamachem

No problem. It works pretty much that way on all drum brakes. It works especially well on hand-e-brakes so you don't have to touch the pedals and force the rears to grab by themselves and the adjustments happen quicker.

Glad I could help. I thought it was pretty-much common knowledge. I guess not. I'll post a new thread for the procedure so it can be easily searched.

bamachem

https://www.yotatech.com/forums/show...087#post436087

Rick F.

Crud, I wish I knew that sooner. The brakes on my '90 4Runner were cherry and had me spoiled when I bought the '00. The '00 had the brake TSB done and the brakes still sucked. I complained again and the dealer adjusted them and they STILL sucked. I put PF pads and Brembo rotors and they almost STILL suck. I gotta' try the e-brake thing 1st thing tomorrow!

dusty98

Here's what fixed the spongy brakes on my 90.
My power steering pump leaked, had been for a long time. The dealer resealed it & flushed it. Now the brake pedal is solid all the time, whether it's a light tap or a panic stop.
I don't know about 3rd gens, but on 2nd gens the rear ABS and power steering unit are somehow linked. I think the power steering fluid provides the pressure for the rear ABS or something like that.
Check that out if everything else appears to be fine.

Bumpin' Yota

dont forget that if you have lifted the truck and not adjusted the brake booster valve your rear brakes wont engage as well as if it was adjusted.

The brake booster valve on the rear axle actually senses how much load you are carrying based on its tilt and boosts more power to the brakes accordingly.

In my case I lifted the rear end about 2.5" or so, then tossed ~600lbs of car audio gear in it. So not only was it sensing a light load from my net 2" lift but I also had extra load that wasn't sensed.

I adjusted the booster valved and BOOM I can almost stop on a dime now.

BE WARNED: you do NOT want the rear axle braking more than the front....so do this at your own risk and test it out on an open wet parking lot. Again perform at your own risk.

User 051420

ABS replaced that valve........Or so I think....

LarsDennert

Hold the bus. Make sure the cable is not too tight. If the ebrake arms IN the drum won't return to their stops against the shoes, you will not be able to adjust the drums properly with the hand brake and you will get nasty vibs etc. 5 or 6 clicks is a bit lean. This is the OTHER big thing with adjusting the brakes. The length at the lever in the vehicle and the outside stops at the drums need to be adjusted.

[edit] I looked. 5-6 is alright, but still check the arms in the drums.