KING

My parents are considering on purchasing a new 2004 LINCOLN NAVIGATOR in the next half-year or so. My dad especially, loves the new looks, and needless to say, I agree too, they look really nice.

I've done some research on the NAVIGATORS and have found out that there are two engine's to choose from, the 4.6L or the 5.4L 32 valve. I had the impression that the 5.4L 32V was a decent engine for the size of the SUV, but it turns out that I was wrong (Atleast I think I am from what I've overheard). These engines don't hold very well to the weight of the vehicle.

I've somewhat was aware of this before especially with the CHEVY's and GMC's (Not sure about EXPLORER's). It almost seems that when you floor it, they don't respond the way you'd like to respond, or atleast not to me, the last time I was in one. It feels like it's sucking alot of air with no result or something, I don't know.... Either way, I was left disappointed.

So now, I'm skeptical about my parent's obtaining a NAVIGATOR. We haven't been to the dealers of any of that, but the weakness of the engine strenghtens the fact that we should look elsewhere.

So I told my dad, what about a 4RUNNER? And he was like, "Well, yes, they're nice, but there is too many of them out there," but so is there of NAVIGATORS.

I told him a little about the 4RUNNERS and somewhat convinced him. Atleast he's going to consider it now.

However, if we were to go with a 4RUNNER, we'd like a 2002 model or the late 3RD GEN. I'm still not convinced with the 4TH GEN (For some reason, I'd prefer the V6 over the V8) and owning one. We also agreed that the 3RD GEN look better, in our opinion.

I told him about the SUPERCHARGED addition, and he liked the idea, or alteast considered it.....

So, what are your thoughts?

I know I am asking this in a TOYOTA forum, but look about from both sides of the coin.

KING

EDGE

You would take a 4th Gen V6 over a V8

PhxTRDRunner

I will say I have done some work on Navigators (sp?), and I was so unimpressed with the overall build quality, quality of materials, drivability that I actually told people about it for at least two weeks after it left. What a P O S. I seriously think it is the poorest vehicle I have ever driven. They may "look" alright, and they might even be comfortable...that is all that I can say about that.


Good old Ford quality..




Its a no brainer from this camp..however in that price range, I'd be looking at 'Cruisers, not 4runners....even if you have to buy a used one.

Cebby

Don't forget the Sequoia. You can supercharge that too...

TDiddy

Yep! The in-laws have a Sequoia, and it's SWEET.

JSharp

I've owned a couple of Toyotas and a few Fords. I still have a 5.0L Mustang and my 4Runner.

Comparing the quality of the two brands is easy. It's just like comparing tools.

Ford = Harbor Freight and Salvage or maybe Sears
Toyota = SnapOn...

Phisherman

Long post, skip if you want...

Just like the 4Runner, the 5.4 and 4.6 V8s have a lot of add-ons. The new Mustangs will have a 5.4 option, and when that hits the streets, add-ons will be plentiful. The Cobra R already has a 5.4 (I think). If they're looking for a fullsive SUV, the 3rd Gen will be a bad choice. They lack width, especially noticeable in the front. I started looking at Tahoes just because of that. I went from a '97 Wrangler to my 2000 4Runner, and I wish I had more room. The new 4Runner is a bit more cozy and has great options. The Sequoia is a great choice though. If it were me and I just wanted an on-road plush ride, I would go with the Navigator. If I wanted longevity, and a good ride, Sequoia all the way. If you want a mixture of both, new 4Runner with a supercharger.

The Navigator's electronic running boards and folding seats will have problems down the road, and I wouldn't trust the flip up radio (or whatever it is) to last very long.

KING

No, I said I would take a 3RD GEN V6 over a 4TH GEN V8.

Now, I haven't been in the V8's so I'm kind of speaking from a blind side, however, I've been in the V6's and I think they're nice. Once you add the SUPERCHARGER, you're set.

I love the look of the late 3RD GEN's. Like a 2002 (With the hood scoop, the chrome skid plate, new wheels, paint color). I think they look real classy. I like the new 4TH GEN, but I'd prefer the 3RD GEN. Again, I've never seen the interior of a 4TH GEN.

You see what I mean..??

What year was the NAVIGATOR that you worked on?

The new design (2003-present) seems like it's even made out of more plastic than the old generations, say a 2002 or older.

Also, aren't they four-wheel independent suspension?

This question just struck me, I wonder if they have 4X4 optional. I recall seeing a lifted NAVIGATOR once at a dealer that said 4X4 on it, hmmmm.....

To be honest, I don't (or shall I saw, we) dont like the CRUISER's very much. We'd prefer the RUNNER.

The SEQUOIA's are nice, I gotta admit, but still, I like the idea of the RUNNER better. The RUNNER is legendary, Y'KNOW?

Maybe I have to see for myself.

The "add-on" point triggered me to find out more. Exactly what can you "add-on"?

Room is another interesting idea that you brought up, which I wasn't even considering up until this point.

They are pretty tight for a long trip, especially carrying adults.

I guess we may have to consider the 4TH GEN for more room space. And perhaps the SEQUOIA as well, while we're at it.



Thanks for all the informative replies thus far, they've helped a bunch already, they're openin' new doors. Keep'em comin'!

KING

Phisherman

The 4.6 and I think the 5.4 both have superchargers available. There are plenty of mods out for the 4.6 although I don't know exactly what they are. I know one guy put a supercharger on his 4.6 Mustang and runs in the 10s with other mods. Check StangNet.com and just pay attention to the motor mods. They also say the modular engines (4.6 & 5.4) will last a long time. Just check around for mods available.

One thing to think about is that sometime soon, Ford will introduce a new Super Truck with a 5.4 V8. It will have a patented SuperCooler system that dumps cold air from the A/C (extremely cold air!) into the induction for a huge hp boost and it recharges every 20 seconds. I'm sure thre will be a mod to put that on an earlier 5.4.

I would also recommend looking at the new 4Runner's interior. Take it for a drive. It's got more room and a lot more modern lay out. Remember these are people older than you that want it, and they like really nice things.

Should I be a reporter for Car & Driver or what?

PoBoy

The new 04 Navigators have all sorts of fun toys on them. They are gonna be a the baller of all baller vehicles. Being from Detroit, Navigators are everywhere...and Ive never heard a complaint about them. Drive one...they are damn powerfull. I beleive its the same engine off America's top selling truck, the F150. My old man drives one (F150) as well as a buddy of mine...its a hell of a lot more fun to drive than my 96 3rd gen.

Everyone rips on FORD, but I tell you what...my next vehicle is going to be one. Those F150 Supercrews are freakin sweet. They are quite capable and damn powerful.

keisur

V6 has more HP.

KING

I was wondering if they had SC's available for those engines. I'm sure they're not as common as the TRD SC's are on the YOTA's and probably far more expansive...

I'm a member of some FORD forums, I'm going to see what other information I can find out about that "SUPER TRUCK" you mentioned.

My parents and I agree pretty much agree on the same things when coming to these things, so that's not a problem, to be honest.

LOL!

I sure wasn't expecting to hear this on a TOYOTA forum.

I know there is nothing wrong with FORD, I mean, they're not selling trucks by the tons for nothing, but sometimes, you can it's better to settle down with other car manufactures, they can offer other things while others won't.

Not to get off topic or anything, but those new F-150's are gonna reign champion this year, I can almost guarantee ya. That's an entire new line of truck there, but enough promotion for FORD when I'm at a YOTA site.. LOL. (Please forgive me, ADMINS!)

Does it really??

No wonder my instincts told me all this time that I'd prefer the V6 over the V8.

I'ma be busy with all this info, again, much appreciated!

KING

JSharp

I don't think it'll fit down those trails at Attica...

Cebby

That will look great hanging off of the back of a tow truck...

keisur

yep, V6 more horsepower, less torque; V8 less horsepower, more torque. They did that for towing from what I understand.

PoBoy

Ive had my 4Runner towed 4 times. Thats 4 times more than my Dad's F150 Lightning. We've gone through 6 Fords all problem free. All were sold or still have em after 120K and are still in great shape. You guys can knock ford all you want, but look around...there is a reason why you see them everywhere.

Haha...that it wont do. Or will it? That Hummer seemed to be getting around okay

Not sure exactly what you meant here, but yes...shop around. Ford, Chevy, GM are offering great deals on their vehicles. Some say its because they are over priced to begin with or are POS cars. Whatever...you are buying AMERICAN not Jap. The car isnt going to break down for several years. I read somewher that the average new car buyer will buy another new one within 5 years. Ford, Chevy, and GM waranties all go beyond 5 years. So ask your parents...how long are you going to have the vehicle? If its less than 6, you have absolutely no reason to say Toyota is more "reliable". Sure they are, but thats after you hit the 120k mark. But I cant even agree with that as mom's Lex tanked after 30k. My 5 year old Jeep TJ has had 5 people learn to drive stick on it, and is running like new w/ all original parts save the tires. With regular maintanence, any and every new car should be able to last 5 years worry free. Take care of your vehicle and it will take care of you.

Now I dont mean to come off anti-Toyota or anything. I own one, I am very happy with it. If Ford made an off-road capable vehicle with the package that the 4Runner came with, I would have gotten one from them though. Reliability didnt come at all into my decision. Bought it purely because of its "total package".

Guess the 9/11 stuff brought out my

keisur

Was that before or after you "submarined" it and also slapped on all those mods?

PoBoy

Haha...2 before / 2 after. One of the afters was right after I submarined it... BUT!!! A Chevy blazer and an F150 made it through. And the F150 was going MUCH faster than I was. Nevertheless, my fault...but the Ford and Chevy made it. Too bad they cant do anything else.

Ive had a mess of problems with the rear end...broken stock coil, passenger side shock, shot bearings, seals, ect. - I think its finally good to go though...but I stopped driving it daily The heep gets me everywhere now

JSharp

I really shouldn't rag on Fords too much. Pretty much all of my many farmer friends have them. These guys are harder on vehicles than anyone I've ever seen. They literally trash the things, pulling 20K lb wagons of grain, driving through plowed fields at high speeds, getting them stuck to the frames constantly, etc.

All the trinkets stop working within a year but the drivelines are solid and the things seem to keep running inspite of all the abuse.


PoBoy, check your PM's!

KING

What I meant was that because I'm considering TOYOTA right now, I wouldn't consider other vehicles.

We plan to keep this vehicle for how long it will lasts us. That being, ten or twenty years from now.

All of the vehicles we have had up until this point have been very well used, let me tell you that.

My dad had a half-ton SILVERADO for fourteen years and put just under half-of-millon miles on the original engine with one rebuilt inbetween. The current truck he owns now is a FORD POWERSTROKE with 200K on it and still looking foward to tack another 200K if it's possible.

My point being, we generally use our vehicles until they're done with. We're not the type of folks that lease a vehicle every five years, just to have something new, every five years. Car payment are not our friends, or rather, my parent's friends.

Now, back to topic...........

The more keep an eye for 3RD GEN on the road, the more I like'em!