jkconnections

The vehicle:
I have a 98 4Runner 3.4 V6 4X4.

Background Info:
I've owned the car for a little over 1.5 years. Two months after purchasing it, the #4 inejector went out and I had to pay to get it replaced.

The Problem:
For the past several months, I've been smelling gas once and a while inside the car, and also once and a while while walking past the car after I had parked it. I've also been having more trouble getting the truck to start as I have to crank it for about 2 seconds, it then sputters a little and then "roars" to life. It never used to sputter like this when I first bought it.

Attempted Diagnosis:
I had some students who are in training to be auto mechanics take a look to see if they could figure out what was wrong. He claimed that after tracing the fuel lines there were no leaks. He said the gas smell was coming from a minor leak around the base of the fuel injector on the drivers side row, and the injector closest to the passenger compartment (under the manifold). He told me to fix it, you would have to rip the manifold off which would get quite expensive.

What I Noticed Today:
I've been busy these past couple weeks since I had the student look at it, and haven't been driving the car much. However, I got curious and wanted to see this leak. So I took out a mirror, but I still can't see the leak. However the smell has gotten worse I think.

Before starting the car, I opened the hood and noticed the smell of gas. Then I went and started the car -- it sputtered a bit more than usual. I then walked over to the engine compartment, and in spite of the hood having been open while starting the car, and in spite of the radiator fan running at top speed blowing air every which way, the smell of gas was very strong. It smelled similar to what you smell at the gas station while fueling your vehicle -- strong enough that it made me want to step away from the engine area. This got me kind of scared.

The Questions:

1. If I'm smelling that much gas with the hood open and the fan running, is this a minor gas leak, or is this something that should make me worried about driving it?

2. Does anyone know whether this sounds plausible for the location of the leak? Are there any other places or things to check?

3. If the student was right and the manifold does need to be removed, are there any other things that should be replaced at the same time to prevent another another costly repair in the future? (i.e. gaskets?, all the other injectors that weren't replaced when my #4 went out last year, etc)

4. Does anyone know which order Toyota counts the injector numbers? When I my injector went out last year, they replaced injector #4, but I don't know if that's the same one as the student said was leaking.

Any input you have will be greatly appreciated.

Thanks in advance
Jonathan

rimpainter.com

Sounds like a leaky o-ring on one of the injectors. Who installed the #4 injector when it had a problem? Whoever it was, they did a crappy job putting it in (or they just plain failed to put new o-rings on the new injector).

Are you mechanically inclined? Where are you located?

Injector replacement really isn't that hard on this motor. Pulling the intake manifold is pretty easy. Once you have that off it's cake.

A shop is probably going to charge you $500 to do this. My advice to you is to get some tools, buy the FSM or get a day pass at the TIS website (FSM online), solicit the assistance of a knowledgeable friend, and do it yourself.

It really isn't that hard. Heck, I could walk you through it over the net.

Are you willing to tackle something like this? Oh, and yes, I would get it fixed ASAP. It's a fire hazard.

jkconnections

Christian,

Thanks for the reply. So are you saying the one leaking is the #4 injector? I paid the Toyota dealer back home $500 to replace that injector. If so, I'm going to be pretty ticked.

I'm a college student, so I don't have any tools other than a basic screw driver and a wrench. I'm not overly mechanically inclined either - computers are my expertise. However, I am able to learn pretty well on my own. I know the principles of how a car works, but I haven't actually tackled any repairs myself as of yet. I'm in Greenville SC (Wisconsin in my home).

What kind of tools would I need to do this myself? Also, how many hours would you estimate for someone who hasn't worked on cars before?

Will fixing this O ring fix the sputtering problem I have when starting the car? Quite honestly, I've been wondering if any of my other injectors are going to go. It does have some dieseling (like what was happening before the injector went out). It's not quite as bad as I think it was before the injector went out. I did run some injector cleaner in the car and that seemed to help a little, but not much as I'm still having the starting issue.

If I do end up having to pay a garage to do this (I really don't have the money for this), should I have them replace any of the other injectors at the same time to prevent another costly repairt?

Thanks again,

Jonathan

rimpainter.com

It's hard to say if the dealer is responsible, but I find coincidental that you have a fuel smell after someone farted around with the fuel delivery system.

First things first. You have two issues here:

1. Fuel smell
2. Dieseling

If the fuel smell started after the injector work, then prior work is probably the cause of the smell. There are two fuel delivery rails on this motor. In order to pull an injector, you pretty much have to pop all 3 injectors out of their ports on that respective side because of how the rail is bolted down (it kind of holds the injectors down). So, whoever replaced the #4 injector may have damaged the new #4injector by not replacing the o-rings, or possibly damaged the o-rings of another injector in the process of removing the rail. Or, you have something else going on. It's really hard to say over the Internet.

You need to get that fuel smell taken care of first and foremost. I am willing to bet problem #2, the dieseling, is related, but it will be hard to say for sure without doing some tests.

If I was you, I would get the injector diagnostic procedure from the FSM and test each injector (you will need a multimeter). If they all tested good, I would replace all 12 o-rings; 1 at the end of each injector, and 1 where they plug in to the fuel delivery rail (x6).

It sounds to me like this might be a bit over your head at this point, and I don't mean that in a bad way. You definitely don't want to mess around with fuel on your first shot at wrenching. Know what I mean? The only way I would tackle this if I was you is if I had someone that knew what they were doing (who had the right tools and could follow the FSM) right there with you.

You will need a good ratchet set (with extensions), screwdrivers, pliers, a torx bit set for the manifold, and a replacement gasket for the intake manifold just to be safe. You will also want to relieve the fuel pressure (I just undo the connection at the fuel filter and catch the excess fuel under my rig).

If you were in PHX I would totally help you out. Maybe you should push this issue with the dealer you had the work done at? How long ago was the work performed?

jkconnections

Yeah, you're totally right. That is a bit over my head. I think I'm going to have to pay someone to do it.

The injector was replaced a year ago May. So, who knows. Maybe it just wore out . . . The dealer I used is back home in WI and with that amount of time, there's no reason to push the issue.

So just to recap then, when I take to a garage, I should:

1. just tell them about the gas smell and not mention the starting issues or minor dieseling?

2. Ask them for a quote on replacing all 12 o rings for the injectors and to replace the intake gasket? (There's nothing else I'd want them to check while they're down there, right?)

3. Then if I'm still having the sputtering and long cranking times when trying to do a cold start after the o rings are fixed-- take it in as a separate issue?

Thanks for your advice, I do appreciate it. I wish I had the experience to do this myself, but you're totally right -- the fuel system isn't something to take my chances with.

Thanks
Jonathan

rimpainter.com

I wouldn't tell them what to do. I would just go in there and tell them you smell fuel and you have dieseling issues and you want the problem diagnosed. Make sure it is a reputable shop (if not the dealer again - since they technically back up there work 12 months or 12K miles). Don't even tell them about the #4 injector in the past. Put the work on a credit card if you can.

Again I stress reputable shop here. Someone could really take you for a ride on this one, so be careful.

Just for kicks you might want to look over the intake system and make sure everything is hooked up and tight. Also, check all the lines to the emission control equipment (drivers side by the battery). Make sure the EVAP line is hooked up to the canister. If not, you will know it. It comes directly from the fuel tank to the canister, so you will get a fuel smell if it isn't hooked up (not dieseling though).

Be sure to keep this thread updated too. Good luck!

jkconnections

Thanks for the info. I actually found a friend who is much more mechanically inclined than I am with cars. He's worked on his own car a lot, so he and I are going to download the FSB and get started on it tomorrow morning. I'll keep this updated to let you know how it turns out.

Thanks!
Jonathan

jkconnections

Here's an update and a question:

We got the manifold off the car this morning and bought the FSM 1 day pass to get the instructions on what to do.

This is what the FSM said to do to test if the injector is still good:
"Using an ohmmeter, measure the resistance between the terminals. Resistance should be approx. 13.8 ohms at 68 degrees Ferenheit. IF this resistanceis not as specified, replace the injector."

Since we were down there, we tested the resistance of each injector. The injector with the gas leak (it was covered in gas), measured 12.7-12.9. The next one in the same row moving toward the front of the car measured 13.6. All the rest measured 13.0 to 13.1.

Question 1: Right now, the temp is 48 degrees ferenheit. If all but injector are reading lower resistance than the FSM says they should have, and I know that one of my injectors was replaced, is it safe to assume the middle injector on the drivers side is injector #4?

Questoin 2: Since all but one are reading low values, should I replace the other 5 injectors? I know this would be expensive, but with the vibrations I still feel in the 4wd stick and since we have gone to the trouble of digging down this far, is it worth it to replace the other 5?

Question 3: Would it matter, if 1 of the injectors is Toyota brand and the rest are others that I buy from Autozone?

Thanks in advance,

Jonathan

rimpainter.com

The injector with the leak is most likely your culprit. I would not replace the other 5 taking into consideration your results and the ambient temperature. Do you know why that injector is leaking? Can you tell? If it's the o-ring(s), replace them and you should be fine.

I guess it would be ok to replace 1 injector with something from Autozone, but ideally you would want to go with OEM. Flow is what matters here. The stock injectors are 238cc. It would be bad if you got something significantly out of that range.

My vote is to determine the source of the leak, and go from there. The o-rings are pricey, but you really should get them from the dealer.

jkconnections

We can't tell why the injector is leaking because it is covered with gas from top to bottom. There does seem to be more gas at the top than the bottom though, so we think it is leaking from the top where the fuel rail connects to the injector. We have not yet disconnected the fuel injectors and rails; however, I noticed that the black part that is visible prior to disconnecting (I think it's the grommet), appears to be rather squashed looking compared to the others. On one side, it appears squashed down and 90 degrees away it looks to be expanded more than the others.

I was able to get o-rings from Autozone -- had to go to 3 places to get 12 of them. One place was $5.99 for 4. The others were $2.99 for 4. So the total was about $12 for 12 o-rings. Is there a reason you said I should get them from the dealer? I still have the receipts, so I could always return the ones I bought at Autozone and Advanced Auto.

I also will need to order the grommets (non-reusable part) and the gaskets from the dealer. My friend and I won't be able to get back to this until next Saturday (hopefully his schedule will permit then). Until then, the manifold sits in the back of my truck.

Thanks for all your help. If you could let me know about whether the o-rings that would be great.

I'll come back next week once I have the parts and let you know how it all turns out.

Thanks again,
Jonathan

rimpainter.com

OEM is the safest bet, but I am sure the ones you picked up will be fine. Be sure to coat them with a little fuel before they go in.

jkconnections

Before we go to the trouble of putting everything back together, I was wondering if this is normal. The intake manifold assembly was full of a brownish substance -- I'm guessing oil (I didn't actually try to touch it).

Could you look at this photo and tell me if it is normal for there to be oil or whatever this substance is down there?

If this is an air intake manifold, it seems to be rather strange that oil would be in a location air is supposed to be flowing . . .

rimpainter.com

Yes, that's "normal." What you are seeing is residual oil from the PCV system. You can clean it up a bit and reinstall. If you ever want to minimize this, search "PCV catch can" here on YT or via Google. A lot of people have devised a little can that catches the oil, yet still allows the crankcase to breathe.

Now if it's dripping oil in the runners when you pull it off, there might be a deeper issues, such as bad rings. Judging by the pic, I think you are fine.