3VZ Cross Over Pipe the reason why
06-17-2005, 05:30 AM
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3VZ Cross Over Pipe the reason why
All,
Okay after answering a post here about yet another burnt #6 exh valve. One of the Japanese folks that I work with saw the post. I explained the problem to him. He called his friends, several of them work for Toyota. So began todays after work follies. By 7 PM I am at a bar with his friends and thier friends...one of them is a design engineer for Toyota. He has the answer for the cross over pipe being the way it is, the bottom line COST. As it is well known all of the GEN 1 and 2 runners where assy in Japan and shipped whole to the states, and the rest of the world. So now we have the left hand U.S. model and the right hand Japanese model all being put together in one place. The location of the steering shafts became the icing on the cake. The exhust is runs down the left side becasue the transfer case is on the right. They could not get a piece cast that would fit on the both models that would not interfer with the brake booster or steering shaft on the left hand drive models, and hold up to any type of time or endurence test. So to keep per unit costs for all models down we have what we have. To prove his point he told me a little secret.....
The fuse panel on my Japanese right hand drive is in the right side under dash kick panel. On the Left hand U.S. models behind this kick panel is the ECU. The mount points the same. The ECUs and fuse boxes have some brackets attached to them that allow them to use the same exact mounting points. I pulled both the kick panels and checked....it is true.
It all came down to COST
Okay after answering a post here about yet another burnt #6 exh valve. One of the Japanese folks that I work with saw the post. I explained the problem to him. He called his friends, several of them work for Toyota. So began todays after work follies. By 7 PM I am at a bar with his friends and thier friends...one of them is a design engineer for Toyota. He has the answer for the cross over pipe being the way it is, the bottom line COST. As it is well known all of the GEN 1 and 2 runners where assy in Japan and shipped whole to the states, and the rest of the world. So now we have the left hand U.S. model and the right hand Japanese model all being put together in one place. The location of the steering shafts became the icing on the cake. The exhust is runs down the left side becasue the transfer case is on the right. They could not get a piece cast that would fit on the both models that would not interfer with the brake booster or steering shaft on the left hand drive models, and hold up to any type of time or endurence test. So to keep per unit costs for all models down we have what we have. To prove his point he told me a little secret.....
The fuse panel on my Japanese right hand drive is in the right side under dash kick panel. On the Left hand U.S. models behind this kick panel is the ECU. The mount points the same. The ECUs and fuse boxes have some brackets attached to them that allow them to use the same exact mounting points. I pulled both the kick panels and checked....it is true.
It all came down to COST
06-17-2005, 03:00 PM
#3
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Originally Posted by dragon564
All,
Okay after answering a post here about yet another burnt #6 exh valve. One of the Japanese folks that I work with saw the post. I explained the problem to him. He called his friends, several of them work for Toyota. So began todays after work follies. By 7 PM I am at a bar with his friends and thier friends...one of them is a design engineer for Toyota. He has the answer for the cross over pipe being the way it is, the bottom line COST. As it is well known all of the GEN 1 and 2 runners where assy in Japan and shipped whole to the states, and the rest of the world. So now we have the left hand U.S. model and the right hand Japanese model all being put together in one place. The location of the steering shafts became the icing on the cake. The exhust is runs down the left side becasue the transfer case is on the right. They could not get a piece cast that would fit on the both models that would not interfer with the brake booster or steering shaft on the left hand drive models, and hold up to any type of time or endurence test. So to keep per unit costs for all models down we have what we have. To prove his point he told me a little secret.....
The fuse panel on my Japanese right hand drive is in the right side under dash kick panel. On the Left hand U.S. models behind this kick panel is the ECU. The mount points the same. The ECUs and fuse boxes have some brackets attached to them that allow them to use the same exact mounting points. I pulled both the kick panels and checked....it is true.
It all came down to COST
Okay after answering a post here about yet another burnt #6 exh valve. One of the Japanese folks that I work with saw the post. I explained the problem to him. He called his friends, several of them work for Toyota. So began todays after work follies. By 7 PM I am at a bar with his friends and thier friends...one of them is a design engineer for Toyota. He has the answer for the cross over pipe being the way it is, the bottom line COST. As it is well known all of the GEN 1 and 2 runners where assy in Japan and shipped whole to the states, and the rest of the world. So now we have the left hand U.S. model and the right hand Japanese model all being put together in one place. The location of the steering shafts became the icing on the cake. The exhust is runs down the left side becasue the transfer case is on the right. They could not get a piece cast that would fit on the both models that would not interfer with the brake booster or steering shaft on the left hand drive models, and hold up to any type of time or endurence test. So to keep per unit costs for all models down we have what we have. To prove his point he told me a little secret.....
The fuse panel on my Japanese right hand drive is in the right side under dash kick panel. On the Left hand U.S. models behind this kick panel is the ECU. The mount points the same. The ECUs and fuse boxes have some brackets attached to them that allow them to use the same exact mounting points. I pulled both the kick panels and checked....it is true.
It all came down to COST
06-17-2005, 09:57 PM
#5
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To prove his point he told me a little secret.....
Seriously though - that damn cross over pipe had to be a compromise of major proprotions....mine would be gone by now but a set of Downey ceramic coated headers, associated Downey connection tubing and labor is well over $1,000 bucks for me.
I don't think the 3.0 long block is all that bad of an engine for 1995 but its everything else they designed for the long block that makes me wonder at times...
PCV, x-over, starter; etc...Still love my 2nd gen and I am going to take care of it and drive it until it dies
06-18-2005, 07:17 AM
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Originally Posted by nunsa
I'm sorry but I have to disagree! I worked for Toyota as a tech. they knew about they HG problems and the power problems. That x-over looked great on paper, but in the real world it just didn't work! It robbed power instead of creating power, it caused the #6 valve to burn up, the 3.0 was like a person running with a cold it was so congested it didn't work!! Toyota knew about the HG problems and the power problems, why did it take 7 years to correct these problems? It was a mis-engineered engine, it had no power, what did Toyota do? They created the 3.4 L To take it's place,they never dealt with the power problem, the x-over problem the only thing they dealt with was the HG problem because they had to! Tsk!!
06-18-2005, 11:58 AM
#7
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Originally Posted by dragon564
You have the right to disagree. I even like what you have to say here, but you do not support your disagreement. You just added your comments on to the post. I said that the cross over pipe being the way it is was due to per unit costs for both RHD and LHD models. You say the engine is misengineered, but did not support that statement. What part of the engine is misengineered? And if the engine is so misengineered why did you drive one to over 200k? Reasonable person therory would steer away from such a thing, yet you put over 200K on one and then pick up the next model in the line........May be Toyota wanted the cross over the way it is maybe they did not but the bottom line became they did not want to afford to do it any other way. All I want to know is where is the mis-engineering?
The crossover pipe restricts air, yet it was cost efficient, they should have went with headers on each side and duel exhaust, the biggest problems with the 3.0 is that it can't breathe, no kidding, it's actually restricted to a sense!
Yeah, I did drive it to over 285,000 + miles, why you ask: I love the 3.0, no kidding, you can't beat the low end torque, but power? It's just not there! I drove it and drove it and drove it! You can't beat the reliability! What about the HG recalls? Pretty common on the 3.0, especially after the '91 year. That was a federal thing, the hg's had asbestos in them and that was bad and that was why the hg recall came about, they, being Toyota replaced them with inferior HG gaskets which caused all the recalls. It had to be cheaper to replace that crossover with a set of headers and/or a new x-over, one that would allow the engine to breathe and at the same time have more power and let the engine breathe and have customer satisfaction! Hey, I love Toyota, that's the only thing I;ll ever buy! I bought a Taco, I could have boughten a Chevy, Ford what have ya!
Why did I buy a Taco? reliability, it's pretty much why most people buy Toyota's, they last forever and a day!, I actually like this 3.4 v6, it has more power, 190 hp to be exact, why couldn't they do this all along? Make a v6 that has power, torque and yet had good gas mileage good enough to compete with the American Ford, Chevy..! It's a duel problem with that x-over, for one it causes the engine not to breathe for another it causes air not to get back to the #6 valve thus burning her up!
The bottom line is this: when Toyota ever and I mean ever found a problem, the next year it was corrected, It just didn't happen with the 3.0! When the Tacos first came out they had severe wind noise, well the next year Toyota corrected this problem and like wise for other problems and other models!
Take care!
Harry
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06-20-2005, 02:46 PM
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Check out the posts under " 3vze exhaust valve", no one will be sorry that they did.
Well, maybe except for those who threw out alot of money for after market headers.
Well, maybe except for those who threw out alot of money for after market headers.
Last edited by 94x4; 06-20-2005 at 02:48 PM.
06-21-2005, 10:33 AM
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94x4 most people didn't buy headers because of the burnt valve, its because they flow more air, which means more hp. 4 runner to answer your question www.downeyoff-road.com
06-21-2005, 01:01 PM
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Originally Posted by 4Runner92sr5
How can we fix or take out this x-over so there isn't that much air restriction?
Ditto for you, "dwh91102."
Last edited by 94x4; 06-21-2005 at 01:18 PM.
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