3rd Gens w/ Compass & Dimming Mirror - FIRE HAZARD!
07-12-2004, 04:56 PM
#1
3rd Gens w/ Compass & Dimming Mirror - FIRE HAZARD!
FIRE HAZARD - Here's why...
History as to WHY I found the problem:
My windshield was replaced about a year or so ago. When they replaced it, they didn't fasten the mirror to the glass very well and this past weekend, the mirror fell off, hanging by the wiring. I remounted it, but still didn't have the wires plugged in yet - forgot to do it. This put the wires in a different position than normal in addition to the stress from being yanked on when the mirror fell. Anyway, I made a right turn into a restaurant this evening and when I hit the "bump" all of a sudden the interior started to fill with smoke coming from the headliner. I immediately hopped the curb and shut off the truck and the smoke stopped. I started looking and it was coming from the mirror wires. Apparently, the replaced windshield may have pinched the wiring and when the wire was positioned differently (and stressed), the + and - were allowed to touch and short out ALMOST causing a fire.
Here's the PROBLEM as to WHY IT'S A FIRE HAZARD:
It turns out that when the mirror was installed (either port option or dealer option on Limited's and SR5's w/ sunroofs - NOT INSTALLED IN JAPAN), they just ran a wire (actually two - ground and hot mated together) down to the fuse box and "hopped" the hot one onto the hot lead of of the power accessory circuit. This curcuit is on a 30 AMP SLOW-BLOW FUSE. This creates a VERY DANGEROUS situation if the wires to the mirror were to cross somehow - as they did for me. The FUSE will NOT immediately blow and the wires can get hot enough to ignite the insulation or surrounding material before the Slow-blow fuse will eventually break the circuit. This can take as long as 10 seconds.
The SOLUTION:
Check to see if you have "jumpers" on your fuses in the fuse panel. Some installers do this for stereo connections and cell phone hands-free kits. In this case, the wire wasn't plugged into the fuse like some other installers do, but they tapped it into a hot wire below the fuse box. The problem with that is that they tapped the wire that had a large-amp slow-blow fuse and didn't have a smaller inline fast burn fuse. If you do have jumpers, then pull them out and install a properly fused power lead unless you want a total loss in the event of a short. I can't believe that Toyota would allow something like this to make it to the market (ie, sold by their dealers this way). It's an OBVIOUS violation of US DOT standards.
Maybe it's by coincidence that I even found it with the replaced windshield and the falling mirror putting stress on the wiring. Who knows, but I wouldn't take the chance if I were you...
History as to WHY I found the problem:
My windshield was replaced about a year or so ago. When they replaced it, they didn't fasten the mirror to the glass very well and this past weekend, the mirror fell off, hanging by the wiring. I remounted it, but still didn't have the wires plugged in yet - forgot to do it. This put the wires in a different position than normal in addition to the stress from being yanked on when the mirror fell. Anyway, I made a right turn into a restaurant this evening and when I hit the "bump" all of a sudden the interior started to fill with smoke coming from the headliner. I immediately hopped the curb and shut off the truck and the smoke stopped. I started looking and it was coming from the mirror wires. Apparently, the replaced windshield may have pinched the wiring and when the wire was positioned differently (and stressed), the + and - were allowed to touch and short out ALMOST causing a fire.
Here's the PROBLEM as to WHY IT'S A FIRE HAZARD:
It turns out that when the mirror was installed (either port option or dealer option on Limited's and SR5's w/ sunroofs - NOT INSTALLED IN JAPAN), they just ran a wire (actually two - ground and hot mated together) down to the fuse box and "hopped" the hot one onto the hot lead of of the power accessory circuit. This curcuit is on a 30 AMP SLOW-BLOW FUSE. This creates a VERY DANGEROUS situation if the wires to the mirror were to cross somehow - as they did for me. The FUSE will NOT immediately blow and the wires can get hot enough to ignite the insulation or surrounding material before the Slow-blow fuse will eventually break the circuit. This can take as long as 10 seconds.
The SOLUTION:
Check to see if you have "jumpers" on your fuses in the fuse panel. Some installers do this for stereo connections and cell phone hands-free kits. In this case, the wire wasn't plugged into the fuse like some other installers do, but they tapped it into a hot wire below the fuse box. The problem with that is that they tapped the wire that had a large-amp slow-blow fuse and didn't have a smaller inline fast burn fuse. If you do have jumpers, then pull them out and install a properly fused power lead unless you want a total loss in the event of a short. I can't believe that Toyota would allow something like this to make it to the market (ie, sold by their dealers this way). It's an OBVIOUS violation of US DOT standards.
Maybe it's by coincidence that I even found it with the replaced windshield and the falling mirror putting stress on the wiring. Who knows, but I wouldn't take the chance if I were you...
Last edited by bamachem; 07-19-2004 at 05:10 AM.
07-13-2004, 05:07 AM
#2
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i plugged into my sunroof power wire to install mine. the ground is actually pulled far away from the power wire and attaches to a metallic pole that runs the width of the headliner (left to right), and i took my time and taped everything up appropriately, so i think im in the clear.
thats terrible news, was there any damage?
thats terrible news, was there any damage?
07-13-2004, 05:11 AM
#3
Just a melted wire and some nasty "stink" that went away after about 30 minutes of leaving my windows down... but that's ONLY because I shut off power and pulled out the wire and cut off the shorted section before turning on the power again. If I wouldn't have done that, it would have caught fire VERY quickly. Imagine taking a small gauge wire and laying it on your battery and connecting it from the positive terminal to the negative terminal and letting it sit there without interrupting the current...
Last edited by bamachem; 07-13-2004 at 05:16 AM.
07-13-2004, 06:27 AM
#6
When they tapped into the hot wire below the fuse panel, they tapped into one that was coming from the power accessory slow-burn 30A fuse. That means that the mirror has essentially NO FUSE (no in-line fuse and hooked to the hot side and not the fused side) and if it shorts, it can easily cause a fire.
Last edited by bamachem; 07-19-2004 at 05:11 AM.
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07-13-2004, 01:40 PM
#8
ebay 
they also have them with built in homelink as well. anything that mounts to the glass will work. it doesn't have to be 4runner specific. ours are made by Gentex and were installed by the regional Toyota supplier for the original dealer. They did not come on the 4runner from Japan. You can buy them aftermarket. Do an internet or ebay search and you'll see the multitude of options that you have.
they also have them with built in homelink as well. anything that mounts to the glass will work. it doesn't have to be 4runner specific. ours are made by Gentex and were installed by the regional Toyota supplier for the original dealer. They did not come on the 4runner from Japan. You can buy them aftermarket. Do an internet or ebay search and you'll see the multitude of options that you have.
Last edited by bamachem; 07-13-2004 at 01:43 PM.
07-19-2004, 11:09 AM
#12
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You should go to the NHTSA website and file a report of this. They may decide to investigate it. You never know, what you descovered might turn into a recall and save someone's truck or even life.
Gadget
Gadget
07-19-2004, 12:57 PM
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No, not NTSB. Those are the people that investigate airliner crashes. NHTSA is the National Highway and Transportation Safety Admistration. They are the proper ones to preport it to and they force the recalls and so on.
You can file the initial report online and then they will send you something in the mail to fill out and they may or may not contact you directly after that.
Gadget
You can file the initial report online and then they will send you something in the mail to fill out and they may or may not contact you directly after that.
Gadget
07-19-2004, 01:00 PM
#16
NHTSA is a division of the DOT and provide the same online form to file a complaint about a motor vehicle.
The wire for the mirror was jumped onto the power accessories wire that provides power to the driver side power windows and locks. Ironically, there have ONLY been two reported fires involving 1999 4runners (electrical problems) and in BOTH, the driver side power window somehow shorted and rolled down, and then the wiring ignited into flames inside the door. This is the same circuit the mirror is attached to. No root cause was ever found for the two fires that have been reported.
The wire for the mirror was jumped onto the power accessories wire that provides power to the driver side power windows and locks. Ironically, there have ONLY been two reported fires involving 1999 4runners (electrical problems) and in BOTH, the driver side power window somehow shorted and rolled down, and then the wiring ignited into flames inside the door. This is the same circuit the mirror is attached to. No root cause was ever found for the two fires that have been reported.
Last edited by bamachem; 07-19-2004 at 01:08 PM.
07-24-2004, 04:19 AM
#17
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You can thank Gulf States Toyota for the install I'm sure. GST is an independent distributor of Toyota motor vehicles and the only independent left in the US. They also set their own pricing. In El Paso, I can check out the sticker on a new Toy, then run over to Las Cruces, NM, less than an hour away and find a similar vehicle, but without the additional profit installs, and it will be priced significantly lower.
I even find that used vehicles from LC Toyota are priced lower than comparable vehicles in El Paso. LC gets their's from the west coast...a division of Toyota.
I even find that used vehicles from LC Toyota are priced lower than comparable vehicles in El Paso. LC gets their's from the west coast...a division of Toyota.
10-17-2004, 03:01 PM
#18
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Just a thought on the hot wire tap from the fuse panel
Was the power tap off the fuse panel a fuse with a power wire running from one side? If so, it is possible to install it so there is no fused protection in the new “hot” wire. You need to check the slot the fuse goes into (in the fuse panel) to see which of the two slots (in the fuse panel) the lugs on the fuse go into is hot. The wire coming off of the fuse should be opposite the hot side in the fuse panel. That way the new hot wire is downstream from the fuse and it there is a problem with the added circuit, it should blow the fuse.
11-01-2004, 07:28 AM
#20
There's a bunch of interior stuff on that circuit, that's why it was not jsut a regualr 30 AMP, but a 30 AMP Slow-Blow that is $10 EACH from the dealer. The slow-blow fuse allows the wire to get so hot that it will melt all insulation and possibly ignite before the fuse blows.
