FirstToy

Just got a Lexus newsletter and they show the Lexus RX hybrid. Here are the impressive stats: 36city/31highway mpg, SULEV, 0-60 under 8 sec, 270hp The torque gives the pull of a V8. All-wheel drive variant recovers more energy (heightening efficiency) and delivers more acceleration. 600 mile range and VDM (stability control system) Due Dec 2004 Wow, can't wait for the 4Runner hybrid!

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lee

hahah. i doubt we'll ever see a 4runner hybrid.

thats excellent news though.. the highlander hybrid is another intruiging choice. 270 hp and 0-60 under 8 is fantastic!

Bob_98SR5

if a hybrid 4runner came out, i'd wait a year until they worked out all the bugs and then happily trade in my 98 4runner for one.

bob

ruizs

As long as we're talking about hybrids, anybody see this?

http://www.wired.com/news/autotech/0,2554,63413,00.html

Looks like there's a bit of a misconception about hybrids, and in city driving, they don't do much better than other cars in terms of gas mileage... Anybody have a friend with a hybrid?

PistonSlap

The real improvements in these cars will not occur until auto electrical systems switch to 48v systems instead of 12. When this happens all systems that drive off the engine are switched to electric. Your AC, fans, drive motor ect. will all be electric driven. This will allow energy to be produced only as needed and offer the ability to recover energy through braking as well. That is something to look forward to, but requires a huge investment in the automotive industry.

shazaam

overseas they make a kit that is relatively inexpensive that allows you to run natural gas in your engine instead of unleaded. Maybe they should do a hybrid with natural gas instead .. better for the economy, better for the enviroment.

As for the the truck stays for at least another 10-12 years. By then they should have all the bugs worked out

BT17R

The Prius primary traction motor runs off of a 500 volt battery pack now. The 48V accessory drive standard is coming in a few years. All other systems are electrically driven including p/s, p/b, a/c, fans, cvt, and has regenerative braking built into the system. The IC engine runs to heat coolant that's stored in a large "thermos bottle" that dispenses cabin heat as needed, supplemented with electric assist elements. In warm temps, the IC engine will not start at all on short hauls with speeds under ~45 mph. Check around the various Prius boards and you'll see that Prius Sunbelt owners usually meet and often exceed 60 mpg.

Incidentally, the Highlander HSD will be a few ticks quicker than the RX, being between 130 and 245 lbs. lighter depending on options.

Paul H.

Any word on pricing of Rx or Highlander HSD?

BT17R

Somewhere (can't find the link), someone (Toyota rep maybe) said that Highlander HSD will carry a $4,500 premium. I'd be very hard pressed to justify the difference between a 4Runner V-8 Sport and one of those. OTOH, dealers are getting boatloads of pre-orders. I still think there's an ongoing wave of hybrid infatuation. Fine with me, I have people waiting in line to buy my used Prius.

EDGE

These hybrids are nothin more then buying the vehicle with a bigger engine, it will take several years atleast 5-7 to recap the initial upfront cost of the hybrid.

What kind of performance upgrades will their be for hybrids.

These people who are jumping on a list to pay a premium for a vehicle are the same people who will trade it for the newest thing out in 2 or 3 years, they say SUV owner buy their vehicles for image so whats so different about buying these things, it's just a faster version of whats already out in the market.

I can't believe people lease hybrids :pat:

02Runner

I like the look of the Hybrids from Toyota and Lexus. I think they'll be well accepted by the general population. In fact I heard that Toyota has pretty much sold out on their Prius vehicles for this year.

Have you guys heard anything about that?

In the short run, I'll stick with my dino driver. I figure a couple of hundred thousand miles on my Runner and I may consider the hybrid as a primary vehicle.

Doug M.

linhsy

How come the mileage in city (36) is higher than in highway (31)

is it because of hybrid?

4RUNR

linhs, 2 words: regenerative braking. Plus they are relatively bricks on wheels.

BT17R

Yes. Prius, one of the most aerodynamic cars in the world, is also rated higher in the city cycle. As tested in the city cycle, the system relies more on battery than the IC engine, opposite for the highway cycle.

Demand in America is so great that Toyota doubled production but still can't match demand. Dealers in most metro areas are taking orders for '05's. If you're willing to do some phone/computer work and travel, some are available in the boonies. A buyer on the Prius board I frequent flew from Boston to Butte, Montana, for the privilege of paying $1K over MSRP. They're going for $5K over MSRP on eBay in the "right" color and equipment combinations.

From the Toyota website:

Prius' look is as much substance as it is style. Its “aerodynamic mono-form” design offers a coefficient of drag (Cd) of .26, one of the lowest of any production vehicle in the world, greatly improving fuel economy. In addition, Prius' design philosophy focused on creating the greatest interior room with the least exterior footprint, offering both driver comfort and maneuverability. Toyota also believes that the Prius owner is unique and thus deserves a uniquely styled vehicle to drive.

outahere

Hybrids are cool. For many years, real full size trucks (and I am not referring to puny 1/2 ton, 3/4 ton, or 1 ton pickups) such as those used in open pit mines, have had hybrid diesel-electric powertrains, as have diesel locomotives. For these large vehicles, the diesel motor spins an alternator or generator, which in turn supplies power to electric motors on each axle.

4RUNR

Locomotives use electric motors for a very different reason:

#1 Diesels used in locomotives can only run in a limited RPM, and are more reliable at a steady speed
#2 It would be a nightmarish drivetrain situation trying to interface and engine to so many drive wheels
#3 Many places have overhead power, and diesels can run from that, where there is no wire they run on own power
</train hopper in past life>

Question, I haven't paid attention to the hybrid vehicles at all lately: are the IC engines used only for generating electricity, or are they directly coupled to the transmission?

BT17R

Hey, I've been driving one since last November and still don't understand how it works. Toyota has over 340 patents on just this generation of Prius. Scary. Toyota has a notice on their website for shoppers to expect shortages.

Answering, it depends on demand from the electronic fly-by-wire throttle. Prius is designed to use battery power as primary below ~44 mph under light to moderate acceleration. But when WOT is applied, the IC instantly starts and adds to total power output through a torque splitting infinitely variable planetary gearset connecting the IC engine and motor/generator. Total torque output is 295 ft. lbs., IIRC, modulated through the CVT or it would shred it's skinny little tires. As is, TRAC kicks in frequently on a wet surface.

Even in warm temps the IC engine starts and runs for a minute or so every few miles to recharge the primary battery if regenerative (coasting OR braking) can't keep up, and serves to lubricate moving surfaces in preparation for a need for speed. Simply amazing technology starting at $20K. Lately, I'm looking around for potential carjackers.

4RUNR

Ok, so it is directly linked. I was trying to rationalize if a locomotive was a hybrid, because the diesel is one half of the drivetrain. It would not move if either part was out of order. I guess 'hybrid' implies redudancy to an extent.

EDGE

IC is what exactly

BT17R

IC = Internal Combustion engine that uses some type of fuel ignited to provide power. In the case of Prius, it's the 1.5L 4-banger out of the Echo in combination with the motor/generator for a combined max output of 108 hp and 295 ft. lbs. torque. More in the Toyota website link above. I've read that experimental Prius using small diesel IC engines achieve 90+ mpg with about the same performance but are cost prohibitive and don't meet U.S. emission specs yet.