2002 Performance Observations: YMMV
01-29-2003, 06:53 AM
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2002 Performance Observations: YMMV
As I am trying to learn more about my 2002 Limited w/ SC and TRD catback, I have the following observations and questions:
1) No matter what I do in hopes of being able to utilize the 4-1/2" hole I opened up in the airbox, the most efficient configuration (for me) remains the OE intake routing. I have tried the deckplate open w/ snorkle open and deckplate open w/ snorkle blocked off. What I find is that I lose between 2-4 In Hg in vacuum at cruise and there are other negative performance conditions. I have run half a tank of gas with the deckplate open and as soon as I block it off, all aspects of performance get better again.
2) As has been discussed before, the Intake Silencer vacuum routing is different on the '02 and w/ the SC I have no vacuum tubes connected to the IS. Therefore it would be very easy to remove it from the intake or render it functionless. What I don't like is the idea of introducing a metal tube into the intake that sits right on top of the engine. If we want to keep the intake air cool, this isn't going to help matters. Yes, I have done tests and taken readings in Diacom with different intake designs on 2 other cars and there is a differnce. What I want to experiment with is either blocking off the opening in the tube that goes into the Silencer box or find a piece of ABS or PVC tubing that is the correct ID and OD. I assume that plastic tubing has been sought after with no success. Has anyone attempted a stealth alteration of the existing IS w/o removing it?
3) If Gadget is saying that all this conversation about regapping plugs is not necessary because the Gen 2 SC is toned down and if I am not experiencing _any_ ping or knock whatsoever, then just maybe Toyota has figured something out for the '02 4R's and those of us who have the new 4R's should be not so quick at the trigger to do all these Lemmings mods. If it ain't broke, don't fix it. I am just thinking out loud and I mean no disrespect to any of the "Technical Gurus" <g> As I said before, YMMV
1) No matter what I do in hopes of being able to utilize the 4-1/2" hole I opened up in the airbox, the most efficient configuration (for me) remains the OE intake routing. I have tried the deckplate open w/ snorkle open and deckplate open w/ snorkle blocked off. What I find is that I lose between 2-4 In Hg in vacuum at cruise and there are other negative performance conditions. I have run half a tank of gas with the deckplate open and as soon as I block it off, all aspects of performance get better again.
2) As has been discussed before, the Intake Silencer vacuum routing is different on the '02 and w/ the SC I have no vacuum tubes connected to the IS. Therefore it would be very easy to remove it from the intake or render it functionless. What I don't like is the idea of introducing a metal tube into the intake that sits right on top of the engine. If we want to keep the intake air cool, this isn't going to help matters. Yes, I have done tests and taken readings in Diacom with different intake designs on 2 other cars and there is a differnce. What I want to experiment with is either blocking off the opening in the tube that goes into the Silencer box or find a piece of ABS or PVC tubing that is the correct ID and OD. I assume that plastic tubing has been sought after with no success. Has anyone attempted a stealth alteration of the existing IS w/o removing it?
3) If Gadget is saying that all this conversation about regapping plugs is not necessary because the Gen 2 SC is toned down and if I am not experiencing _any_ ping or knock whatsoever, then just maybe Toyota has figured something out for the '02 4R's and those of us who have the new 4R's should be not so quick at the trigger to do all these Lemmings mods. If it ain't broke, don't fix it. I am just thinking out loud and I mean no disrespect to any of the "Technical Gurus" <g> As I said before, YMMV
01-29-2003, 07:55 AM
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I can only comment on question #1:
I think it justifies the results of my "baseline" dyno. If you have a s/c, the deckplate mod is only beneficial when you have done the fuel mods too (IMHO). Once I have my 305cc injectors, SAFC and fuel pump installed, I will get it on the dyno again with the same test conditions, then I will post the results here.
I agree with you that after my dyno, I put the deckplate back in, my perception of the performance seemed to get better (even though dyno results show there is really no significant difference).
Just check out Gadget's response to the same query on thisthread
I think it justifies the results of my "baseline" dyno. If you have a s/c, the deckplate mod is only beneficial when you have done the fuel mods too (IMHO). Once I have my 305cc injectors, SAFC and fuel pump installed, I will get it on the dyno again with the same test conditions, then I will post the results here.
I agree with you that after my dyno, I put the deckplate back in, my perception of the performance seemed to get better (even though dyno results show there is really no significant difference).
Just check out Gadget's response to the same query on thisthread
01-29-2003, 08:16 AM
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ManyMods,
Sadly, there is NOTHING to be done for your 4Runner to enhance power or gas mileage....... most everyone (except you I fear) knows that that particular 4Runner w/ 3.4L and supercharger is a complete pile of trash. I feel so very sorry for you. Most dealerships have the decency to scrap those rigs out rather than sell them to some poor s.o.b. (no offence) I am SO upset over what happened to you, that I will offer to trade EVEN UP, your 4Runner for my '95 3.0L.
Yes, I'm that type of guy...
OK,OK.... all that just to tell you this, Gadget is your man on this. The man knows ALOT about the related problems youre having.
Sadly, there is NOTHING to be done for your 4Runner to enhance power or gas mileage....... most everyone (except you I fear) knows that that particular 4Runner w/ 3.4L and supercharger is a complete pile of trash. I feel so very sorry for you. Most dealerships have the decency to scrap those rigs out rather than sell them to some poor s.o.b. (no offence) I am SO upset over what happened to you, that I will offer to trade EVEN UP, your 4Runner for my '95 3.0L.
Yes, I'm that type of guy...OK,OK.... all that just to tell you this, Gadget is your man on this. The man knows ALOT about the related problems youre having.
01-29-2003, 08:23 AM
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Okay, so I am not nuts! <g>
Duke,
I agree 100% After you do the fuel mods you should see a real improvement, but from what I have read (limited reference) there is no set formula for what to do ... unless your laundry list is it.
I feel so-o-o-o much better now ... and exxcited for you. Good luck and please keep me posted on your progress. SOTP tuning is very misleading and I know you are going about this in the right way.
Duke,
I agree 100% After you do the fuel mods you should see a real improvement, but from what I have read (limited reference) there is no set formula for what to do ... unless your laundry list is it.
I feel so-o-o-o much better now ... and exxcited for you. Good luck and please keep me posted on your progress. SOTP tuning is very misleading and I know you are going about this in the right way.
01-29-2003, 08:31 AM
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ManyMods,
If you want to try the ISR mod, then you can get some 2.5" ID Plastic Electrical Conuduit from Home Depot or any decent hardware store. It sells for about $8 for 10 feet.
Hope this helps.
Dr. Z
PS I did reply to your PM that you sent me, but you have not yet read it...
If you want to try the ISR mod, then you can get some 2.5" ID Plastic Electrical Conuduit from Home Depot or any decent hardware store. It sells for about $8 for 10 feet.
Hope this helps.
Dr. Z
PS I did reply to your PM that you sent me, but you have not yet read it...
01-29-2003, 08:43 AM
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Dr. Z,
I will have to look for your PM. You are right, I didn't receive it or it is lost in my in-box.
I was looking at PVC and ABS tubing and was about to go to the Thomas Register to see what I could find there in terms of Mfg's who make this kind of tubing. The ABS tubing can take temps up to 180F degrees and I don't think the temps around the pipe would get higher than that but I can't say for certain. I was thinking that I would see if I could locate one of the companies like K&N and see if they could sell me the tubing component from one of their smaller straight line intake systems. I have worked with many Mfg's in the past and if you are decent to them they will bend over backwards to help you. I will check with an electrical supply store here on the Island and see what they can offer me. Thank you.
I will have to look for your PM. You are right, I didn't receive it or it is lost in my in-box.
I was looking at PVC and ABS tubing and was about to go to the Thomas Register to see what I could find there in terms of Mfg's who make this kind of tubing. The ABS tubing can take temps up to 180F degrees and I don't think the temps around the pipe would get higher than that but I can't say for certain. I was thinking that I would see if I could locate one of the companies like K&N and see if they could sell me the tubing component from one of their smaller straight line intake systems. I have worked with many Mfg's in the past and if you are decent to them they will bend over backwards to help you. I will check with an electrical supply store here on the Island and see what they can offer me. Thank you.
01-29-2003, 01:52 PM
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Re: 2002 Performance Observations: YMMV
Originally posted by ManyMods
[B]
1) No matter what I do in hopes of being able to utilize the 4-1/2" hole I opened up in the airbox, the most efficient configuration (for me) remains the OE intake routing. I have tried the deckplate open w/ snorkle open and deckplate open w/ snorkle blocked off. What I find is that I lose between 2-4 In Hg in vacuum at cruise and there are other negative performance conditions. I have run half a tank of gas with the deckplate open and as soon as I block it off, all aspects of performance get better again.
[B]
1) No matter what I do in hopes of being able to utilize the 4-1/2" hole I opened up in the airbox, the most efficient configuration (for me) remains the OE intake routing. I have tried the deckplate open w/ snorkle open and deckplate open w/ snorkle blocked off. What I find is that I lose between 2-4 In Hg in vacuum at cruise and there are other negative performance conditions. I have run half a tank of gas with the deckplate open and as soon as I block it off, all aspects of performance get better again.
2) As has been discussed before, the Intake Silencer vacuum routing is different on the '02 and w/ the SC I have no vacuum tubes connected to the IS. Therefore it would be very easy to remove it from the intake or render it functionless. What I don't like is the idea of introducing a metal tube into the intake that sits right on top of the engine. If we want to keep the intake air cool, this isn't going to help matters. Yes, I have done tests and taken readings in Diacom with different intake designs on 2 other cars and there is a differnce.
Chris
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01-30-2003, 02:58 AM
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Chris,
I can't imagine that the intake noise would be so objectionable that you would need to attempt the Dynamat idea. As far as insulating the steel pipe; what I did on a custom steel intake (Jet Hot coated ram air) I had was to have a sock made for it out of high temp insulating material. You can buy the material from Summit Racing. Then I went to a new idea that has proven to be the best intake for my kind of setup. See attached. I know it isn't the prettiest but it really works.
I can't imagine that the intake noise would be so objectionable that you would need to attempt the Dynamat idea. As far as insulating the steel pipe; what I did on a custom steel intake (Jet Hot coated ram air) I had was to have a sock made for it out of high temp insulating material. You can buy the material from Summit Racing. Then I went to a new idea that has proven to be the best intake for my kind of setup. See attached. I know it isn't the prettiest but it really works.
01-30-2003, 05:12 AM
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What vehicle is that in? That's what I've found from Thermo-Tec. A sleeve, same adhesive tape, and another heat deflector. I may use all four of them, but it might be overkill.
Chris
Chris
01-30-2003, 05:42 AM
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Chris,
That's in my '95 Chevy Caprice SSWAGN w/ worked '96 LT4 Corvette motor. The car weighs over 5000 pounds and does the 1/4 mile in 14 seconds ... it would cost me dearly to get into the 13's w/o NOS. My 0-60 foot times are 1.9 seconds and I go from 0-60 mph in 5.2 seconds ... not bad. The wagon looks pretty much stock, even still has the wood veneer siding (can you say sleeper <g>) but there is practically nothing left on it mechanically that is stock. On the road I can out handle most stock sports cars and I have had it up to 150 mph, before I had to shut down ... I was in Canada <g> The car used to be fast but now the guys in my club are doing stroker motors (more torque) and I just don't have the energy to do anymore to this car ... it's so nice to have it running nicely with no oil leaks or glitches. I do have an extra LT1 350 block for a project. <vbg> I was going to put the motor in my S10 4wd but with the 4wd I decided it would be too much of a project and difficult $$$ to bullet proof. If it was 2wd, the deal would have been done long ago.
That's in my '95 Chevy Caprice SSWAGN w/ worked '96 LT4 Corvette motor. The car weighs over 5000 pounds and does the 1/4 mile in 14 seconds ... it would cost me dearly to get into the 13's w/o NOS. My 0-60 foot times are 1.9 seconds and I go from 0-60 mph in 5.2 seconds ... not bad. The wagon looks pretty much stock, even still has the wood veneer siding (can you say sleeper <g>) but there is practically nothing left on it mechanically that is stock. On the road I can out handle most stock sports cars and I have had it up to 150 mph, before I had to shut down ... I was in Canada <g> The car used to be fast but now the guys in my club are doing stroker motors (more torque) and I just don't have the energy to do anymore to this car ... it's so nice to have it running nicely with no oil leaks or glitches. I do have an extra LT1 350 block for a project. <vbg> I was going to put the motor in my S10 4wd but with the 4wd I decided it would be too much of a project and difficult $$$ to bullet proof. If it was 2wd, the deal would have been done long ago.
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