SKovarik

Hi everyone,
I have an apparently serious problem. I have a 1998 4Runner SR5 - V6 automatic. It has 4WD, but no locking differential. We had about 3-4" of snow last night and I decided to drive the 4Runner to work - bad idea! The first time I stopped, then tried to accelerate, I ended up backwards on the on-ramp. A passerby rolled his window down and told me that my rear passenger tire was not spinning - "frozen." The rig was in 4 wheel drive. At this point I kicked the tire a few times, to loosen - seems idiotic, I would think the differential would put some power to it no matter what. I put the truck in reverse and it turned around fine - back into drive and away I went down the freeway, everything seeming OK. Ten miles later I got to my exit, took it and got stopped at a light about a 1/4 mile away.

When I attempted to take off at the green light, I experienced the same symptoms again. Only with the front wheel jacked completely into a left turn could I get it to go somewhat straight. I still ended up tagging the curb. After repeated attempts at changing gear/in-out of 4WD/kicking tire I had the same results. Another passerby rolled down a window and told me that "You're rear passenger tire isn't spinning at all!"

It took about 10 minutes to go an 1/8 mile to the first side street. I turned off and still couldn't get it to straighten out. The odd part was that when I put it in reverse, it backed up great. I could have made it to work backwards pretty easily.

Seeing that I'd rather not put my truck into a parked car I decided to abandon it and walk the last 1/2 mile to work. Talk about embarrassing - my fiancee was scared out of her mind on the drive. This rig is supposed to be my snow ride - mind you, other people were leisurely driving in FWD cars and minivans past me (not to mention the other SUVs and trucks).

More on the rig and conditions: 3-4" of snow, hard packed (almost ice) - 21 F outside. 255/70R16 BFG All-Terrain T/A tires 32 PSI. Minimal weight in the back. The truck was outside all night due to another vehicle currently being serviced in the garage.

Does anyone have any idea what could be wrong? I've driven the thing in the snow before and it is a champ (except for stopping). I can't seem to figure this one out, but having a 4WD 4Runner that can't drive in the snow is like having a Supra with a Tercel engine - it pisses me off. Help!

Steve

lovetharunner

Bump for a friend... anyone have any ideas?

Yukon

is the wheel actally frozen, like the passerbys said, or does it spin? if it is locked up, it could send you sideways alot, and not be related to 4wd. if it just isnt spinning when you mash on the gas, thats an open diff problem

lovetharunner

I think its more than just an open diff problem... its like there is no power going to the rear passenger tire.

I drove on the same road as the OP this morning and didn't have any problems with my open diff.

cackalak han

Was the e-brake left on all night? Could have frozen? That's all I can think of. How does it drive in 2WD?

SKovarik

It was spinning fine when I was going down the freeway at 35-40. However, when I stopped both times, I could not get regain traction - no matter how much or little gas I gave it. That's why I ended up on top of the curb. The strangest part is that reverse was fine - maybe because the front wheels were doing the pushing? The tires are about 70% - should be enough to handle "moderate" snow.

The only mechanical oddity to the vehicle is a "stuck" feeling when first putting it into drive. The sequence is this - brake depressed, start truck, shift to D or R, release e-brake and pedal, slight "click" or "clunk", truck goes. Is my transmission on its way out? I just rolled over 171,000 mostly highway miles.

SKovarik

It drove fine in 2WD for 50 yards backing out of the driveway. I threw it in high 4 at that point for the rest of my journey. At the very end I put it in 2WD and it didn't help. Yes, the e-brake was engaged all night, seems like if it was frozen I would have had a light on my cluster - or is the sensor at the e-brake handle? I had some e-brake issues in the past, maybe it needs some maintenance.

cackalak han

So, when you have it in 2WD, it drives fine and gets power to the rear wheels, but when you put it in 4WD (in D) there is no power to the rear wheels?

SKovarik

I didn't notice a difference between 2 and 4 wheel-drive in D - I still couldn't keep it straight. It was way too cold and way too dark to do any serious diagnosing/observation. The weirdest thing was that it seemed just fine in reverse both in 2WD and 4WD. I think the stuck brake shoes seems like the most likely issue. The truck has displayed a little stickiness in the brakes in the past, even in moderate conditions. Perhaps after 10 miles with very little braking, when I hit the brakes again and sat for 45 seconds it was long enough to re-freeze the shoes to the drum. Then, being on a 1/2" thick pad of crushed snow (ice) it wouldn't free back up because of near-zero traction - thus all power going to the driver rear tire.

Seeing as it is supposed to reach an amazing high of 34 today, with lows in the 20s and tomorrow the roads will be a skating rink, what can I do this afternoon to get the thing home? Anyone know of a "field repair" for the brake drum? Yank the handle a couple times? I'm not sure what I can do.

4biker

So you are actually dragging a tire? I would definitely guess that the drum or e-brake on that side is frozen up. It shouldn't be the transmission or t-case since they just provide power to the driveshaft, and you are getting power to the rear diff. With an open rear diff it will send all of the power to the spinning wheel. The only thing it should be is the diff, an axle (bearings, etc.), or the brake assembly on the affected side. If you can't get into a shop, I'd take the tire off, and pour a bucket or two of warm salt water (or some other de-icer) over the drum brake assembly. That should melt any ice that's freezing it up, and keep it from re-icing until you can drive on it. Another thing that might work is to push on the brake (in 2wd) and push the gas at the same time, and that will force more power into the other wheel (a trick that many open-diff guys use while wheeling). That may be enough to break it free. Then I'd avoid using the e-brake unless it's dry outside or you can WD-40 the e-brake assembly.
Let us know what you find out!

Skrillah

Nah man...i'm going to agree with the one of the other dudes. Sounds like you are experiencing the fact that you have open diffs. In an open diff situation, the tire that has the least (thats right least) traction will get the power so in your situation the tire that was spinning. The tire that wasn't...shouldn't have got the power in an open diff construction. In a limited slip, it would be just the opposite which is why limited slip is ideal most times unless you are locked. With 4runners, I don't believe any 96-02 came with the option of limited slip, they were either open or have the optional locker but I could be wrong.

Its unlikely that your brakes would be affected in switching from 4wd to 2wd and vice versa thus I don't believe this to be your problem. If you have the brake problem in 4wd then it would be the same in 2wd. You can check the parking brake though....look under the rig on the rear drum assembly. You will see a cable that stretches the length of the axle. It then attaches on both ends to the drum brake assembly...the mechanism where it connects sometimes does get stuck. It looks like a little arm or ear or something....when the e-brake is disengaged...that arm should be touching the drum assembly. Then when its engaged...that arm should not be touching the drum assembly. Just something to check for....if it isn't touching when its disengaged...grab a hammer and take a few wacks on it...it should easily sit back on the assembly. There is pivot point that freezes up on there...I haven't had any luck getting mine lubbed up enough to the point that it works correctly every time therefore I just don't use the ebrake unless its absolutely necessary (big hill or something).

In any case...i believe that you are again just experiencing how a open diff operates...if you do indeed believe one wheel is not spinning.

Good luck

SKovarik

I went with my cohort over to check out my truck on lunch break. I started and put it in drive and got nothing, then it got traction and did the same as before, went sideways. Turns out that the passenger rear tire refuses to spin in Drive - I dragged it about 15 feet with the other 3. However, in Reverse everything is as normal.

This tells me I don't have a differential issue - sounds like my hydraulic brakes are simply locked up - can anyone explain why R would be fine and D would lock up completely? It is definitely not the differential, as far as I can tell - otherwise forward and back should at least loosen the shredded parts in the diff enough to get motion to that axle.

4biker

The e-brake bracket may have enough play in it to change orientation slightly when shifting from D to R. I'm sure someone else can come up with a better explanation for it. The dumb thing is - there doesn't necessarily have to be an obvious reason for it to act that way, sometimes it's the perfect storm and you end up with a quirky problem that wouldn't normally happen. The biggest pain is that it's stuck on the side of the road in the snow - not very comfortable diagnostic conditions

lobody94

it could be a broken shoe or spring holding the shoe? Maybe its getting jammed in the forward motion but releasing in reverse? I would start by pulling off the drum and see whats going on under there. Sounds like your going to freeze your boys off unless you have it towed somewhere.

SKovarik

I'm setting up the tow to my house this afternoon - it's covered by my insurance. Unfortunately I have a T100 in my garage with a blown head that I'm in the middle of fixing. Looks like I'll end up working on the 4Runner in the snow, either way. I guess I'll drive the car tomorrow...

Yukon

there is probably water in there. you can take off the drum to take a look, maybe get it freed up enough to get home. Just take off the wheel, and the drum should pull off. Thats what i would try before towing

SKovarik

After experiencing complete and utter loss of control driving the rig this morning (at only about 5 mph), I'm not willing to try driving in rush hour traffic with a faulty brake system (considering I will inevitably have to do a fair amount of braking). The tow is covered by insurance, so I might as well use it - rather than totaling my favorite vehicle (or worse). I will use this as an opportunity to change my pads and shoes on all four corners.

4biker

Yep, it's no emergency to get fixed tonight, so that's the best idea. I'm sure once you get it pulled apart, you'll see what the problem is. Good luck, and let us know what you find out.

SKovarik

Well, got it home after a long (expensive) tow. The weather is currently 22 expecting lows in the teens, high in the 20's tomorrow. Ironically, when the tow truck yanked the truck up, all four tires spun fine. Got it home, and had to park it properly - guess what, it wouldn't go (after depressing the pedal to out of Park). So I hit reverse backed up two feet and put it back in drive. Sure enough, traction to all 4. Drove down the driveway, reversed, then put it away. For good measure, I tried the same test again with the same results - brake, D, stuck, R, go, D, go, brake, stuck.

At this point I'm convinced it is definitely a brake issue. I had a hard time believing that my *rock solid* 4Runner would blow the differential coincidentally on the first really cold day of the season.

So, time for lessons learned (and public humility).

1. A small problem that lingers (the slight "pop" in my brakes at take-off over the summer) has the potential to be a huge problem if left unattended. I could have had to hit the brakes on the freeway and locked up my rear wheel at 20+ and ended up pointing my Runner into God knows what (center divider, guard rail, pond, 1997 Dodge Ram, or worse).
2. Service a vehicle for the *worst case scenario* not the average case scenario.
3. A small issue (or oddity or symptom) with a vehicle is license to upgrade numerous parts. I now have no reason *not to* put new slotted rotors on, fresh ceramic pads on the front, and replace the rear shoes - I could probably slip a few other upgrades in for good measure. Since the fiancee was with me, I can forever remind her of "that time" every time she questions an "unnecessary" upgrade or alteration to one of my vehicles.
4. Even if the worst happens, it can always be fixed (usually better than it was before "the mishap"). Had my differential been toasted, it would be time for an electronic locking rear differential. Damn. "It's not that much more."

cackalak han

Forget about the slotted rotors. They're just more expensive and don't do anything. Just get some good blank rotors and pads. I've used Autozone Duralast due to the 2 year rotor warranty.