DeathCougar

iTrader: (23)

nope i am too good to read pages of yore

JGage

Car and Driver article on the 2010 4Runner, including some new spy photos. C&D claims the 4.6l V8 will indeed be available (which of course the Toyota Canada .pdf disputes). I can forgive Toyota for the pole antenna if we get the V8.

http://www.caranddriver.com/news/spi..._4runner-spied

bigtrucknwheels

Its really pretty unlikely that the V8 is gonna be offered. I am HIGHLY skeptical about the C&D article. They also state the body will be pretty smooth. Toyota has described it otherwise...

JGage

Wow, so much for C&D being creditable, they retracted their story because someone sent them the .pdf going around.

Guess journalists don't do research anymore.

http://blog.caranddriver.com/2010-to...linder-option/

bigtrucknwheels

that'd be me, I hate when the facts are wrong!

M1911

Given that Toyota has effectively cancelled the V8 for 2009, I doubt we'll see it in 2010. The 4300 lb 4Runner is going to be a dog with the 4 cylinder -- pointless.

BT17R

FWIW, I was told the new 2.7L 4 cyl. will only be available in small numbers, and then only on the lighter 4X2. It was done to pump up the EPA #'s and Toyota expects few actual sales. Regions are only ordering enough for one per dealer initially to judge market reaction, so if anyone actually wants one in a certain color, they'll have to hunt.

bigtrucknwheels

not nesc.

considering the first three gens all offered a 4 cylinder engine, its not such a bad idea. look on this site, a lot of people love the 4 cylinder. Just because it doesn't go fast doesn't mean its pointless. good gas mileage ring a bell?

Besides, when you use low range, if you aren't turning huge tires, it doesn't matter if its 4 cylinders or 8. Considering the 4 cylinder that is going to be offered is almost the same horsepower as the V6 offered in the third gen and well over the V6 offered in the first and second gens, its really hard to justify calling pointless haha.

The 4Runner's true heritage had nothing to do with speed and power. The fact that the 4th gen sold out to that Americanization crap is a shame (think GM and Chrysler, what exactly is it they did with all their vehicles that rendered them a failure??). I for one am very glad to see the return of a 4 cylinder. There are plenty of big, bloated, and over powered vehicles out there. Why not go back to its roots? CAFE standards are looming anyways, and if you want to see the 4Runner survive into the future, this is the only way it can happen.

Not to mention the price will be lowered, which makes it easier to get more people into a 4Runner. There are many of us who would want to get into a 4 door Toyota SUV with four doors and a live axle in the rear, a frame under foot, and not have to deal with shopping mall'd out pavement pounders. Sure, the 4Runner has a little ways to go yet to satisfy a lot of our needs, but this sure is a step in the right direction.

Thats my argument for the 4 cylinder lol

M1911

1) The first three generations were much lighter than the gen 4, and it appears that the gen 5 size and weight will be similar to the gen 4.

2) The 4-cylinder simply isn't going to get very good gas mileage. It will have the same poor aerodynamics as the V6. The overburdened 4-cylinder will be working so hard that it won't save you much gas in regular driving.

There are two ways Toyota could get significantly better mileage out of the 5th gen 4Runner: a) redesign significantly smaller and lighter, and/or b) equip it with a turbo-diesel engine. But Toyota isn't going to do either.

The 4-cylinder is simply going to be ineffective greenwash.

bigtrucknwheels

good points, but it will help boost the critical fleet gas mileage for the CAFE program, and as BT17R said, its more for that than anything. I totally agree with you that Toyota needs to do A and B haha. Thanks for pointing out that the new 4runner is much heavier, I always forget that fact... lol

M1911

It will only help the fleet mileage for CAFE if they actually sell them. I have a hard time seeing the 4-cylinder, 2-wheel-drive 4Runner as being a sales leader. Time will tell.

I don't want A, smaller and lighter. The 4Runner is only just big enough for my needs as it is. I would greatly prefer B, a turbo-diesel engine. But that's just not going to happen.

BT17R

Has anyone seen weights yet? One of my TMS contacts "believes" it's actually going to be lighter than a 4th Gen despite being bigger. I'll believe it when I see the specs. Maybe one version only is lighter, the SR5 4X2, and the rest aren't.

M1911

4x2 is, by definition, lighter than 4x4 -- no front diff, no transfer case. The 4-cylinder is lighter than the V6 as well. So a 2wd 4-cylinder will be a couple hundred pounds lighter than a V6 4x4. Yes, a more highly optioned model will be heavier as well, due to things like motors for power seats, etc.

But the basic structure of the vehicle -- body, frame, suspension, etc. -- will be the same. So the weight difference will not be huge.

Furthermore, while lighter weight does improve fuel economy, the difference of a couple hundred pounds on a 4000+ lb truck just won't have much impact. Much of the poor economy of the 4Runner is due to aerodynamic drag, which is a function of the drag coefficient and cross-section, both of which will be the same on a 4-cylinder 2WD model as a 6-cylinder 4x4.

Will a 2WD 4-cylinder have a higher fuel economy rating than a 6-cylinder 4x4? Sure. How great a difference in the real world? My guess is not that much.

Up here where it snows, dealers wouldn't be able to give away a 2WD 4Runner.

BT17R

M1911, gearing will have a similar or greater effect than weight.

For example, the A/T FJ 4WD is rated 16/20, the M/T 14/19. Weights are within a few pounds. A/T overall final drive is substantially higher than the M/T counting the OD and final drive of 3.7 vs. 3.9 for the M/T. So the A/T FJ gains 14% better fuel economy through gearing alone.

I expect a different gearset and final drive for the 2.7L vs. the 4.0L. It'll be interesting to see the difference in EPA ratings. I'm guess at least a 20% improvement, but haven't seen the updated 1GR dual VVT-i ratings yet.

M1911

The problem, of course, is that the underpowered 4-cylinder will need a much lower gearing than the V6, due to its lack of torque.

BT17R

It depends on overall final drive. Sure it'll have shorter 1-2-3 gears, but I'm guessing at least one, maybe two overdrive ratios to pump up the EPA numbers.

M1911

Time will tell.

bigbwb

Any updates lately guys....anyone heard anything new?

BT17R

End of 4th Gen Production: 8/28/09 (Tahara)

5th Gen Production begins: 8/31/09 (Tahara)

1st VIN Visibility: 9/03/09

Ship to Dealers: 9/16/09

Wholesale/Retail Date: 9/15/09 (May be reported sold to customer)

PPO Available: 9/15/09

One per dealer initially, future availability earned based on dealer's previous 4R sales rate

Depending on dealer location, their first one on the ground will take between 7-14 days (Portland) or 28-35 days (Boston via Panama Canal)

bigtrucknwheels

and still no photos? If they wanna sell any of these, they gotta start hyping it up...