ToyoKev86

Hi everyone! I just joined not too long ago, so this will be my first non-introductory post.

First of all, the tires I'm currently running are 33" x 12.5" x 15" Cooper Discoverer STT's. I got my truck with the wheels at a negative camber, which caused all four tires to wear mostly on the inside. Because of that, I plan to get new tires soon, but only after I have my wheels realigned.

I have my sights on a set of BFG Mud Terrain KM2's since it seems as though many people like them, they're available for 15" wheels, and I like they way they look overall. However, I've also considered the BFG A/T's and Toyo Open Country MT's, but I ruled out the Toyo's since they're a little pricey and I couldn't find ones in the size I'm looking for.

Are 35's okay or should I stay with 33's? I want to go from 33's to 35's mainly for aesthetic purposes to be perfectly honest since I have the room for 35's (I can even get 38's if I wanted to). Before anyone asks about my gearing, I have no idea at the moment, but I'm pretty sure I have the stock gearing since the acceleration is VERY sluggish (it takes a while to reach 70 mph on the highway). [EDIT: I do have the stock gearing] That being said, I'm aware that bigger tires will make my truck a little slower, but that won't be too much of a problem because, well, it's a truck, it's not supposed to be fast, lol.

My truck is a daily driver, and although I've never done any actual wheeling, I'd like to in the future. I know both the BFG Mud Terrain KM2's and BFG A/T's are good on and off the road, but what do you guys recommend? Since my truck's driven daily, how long do they last on the road? Are there any wear issues on either one?

I'm a little new to all of this, so please forgive my inexperience.

All opinions and any recommendations (perhaps for tires I didn't mention or consider) are welcome.

Thanks,

muddpigg

iTrader: (1)

35" with stock tires ouch, 33" with stock is rough.

Destination M/T have been my favorite M/T so far, lesser known but great Offroad performance but a bit slick on wet and snowy roads. KM2 is a good tire with good road manners and not to bad on wet and snowy roads. Don't waste money on A/Ts if you ever plan to go Offroad, IMHO.

87hoerunner

35x12.50 km2 are 203 each right now on 4wheelparts.

combatcarl

31-10.5/15 Nexen Roadian AT PRO RA8. Bought mine online,($460)shipped to dealer,(free) and mounted(($70~). Haven't had a lot of time to run them off road, but on road manners are excellent, especially in extremely wet conditions. Sidewall is apparently prone to rock damage, so be careful aired down off road. With stock gears, 31" is about as big as you can go without rendering 5th and some of 4th gear useless. If you go 32" and up, regear. Your clutch and engine and fuel economy will thank you.

donomite49

Hard to beat bfg's, 50k mile at's 40k mile mt's
.last set of tires I tried some Kelly safari tsr and have been happy with them.
I think they will match the bfg's for mileage and performance, lots of siping in the tread for good snow and wet weather traction.
I am going to go with another set for my16" wheels I just bought.

ToyoKev86

I just checked my gearing today using the tire-spinning technique; I do indeed have the stock 4.10 gears.

I honestly never considered smaller tires because I think they'd look ridiculous with my 7" lift.

tj884Rdlx

7" lift is excessive. But if you're the type to put carts before horses, must make sense to buy tires to match lift, instead of the other way around.

So since you're thinking that way instead of putting appropriate tires for the truck, i recommend 38s for 7" lift.
Dont worry about your engine or transmission. If you're running 35s on stock 4.11s , you're already screaming in 3rd gear most of the time anyway, and probably redlining the heck out of it just to get there.

If you want to be a spectacle, do whatever your wallet will let you, and be prepared to replace the parts you break. But If you want a competent and efficient rig, some common configs are:

31s with 4.11 and 1-2" lift
33s with 4.88s and 2-3" lift
35s with 5.29s and 3-4" lift
36s with 5.71s and 4-5" lift

It isn't about speed. Indeed the truck is slow. But it's about maintaining the appropriate ratio of power to the wheels, so you're running the power train in the rpm ranges it was designed to do, to minimize catastrophic failure.

These are just guidelines and other factors will determine actual lift required such as cutting fenders, beating in wheel wells, body lift pucks, ifs or sfa, wheel offset, etc etc.

Whichever tires you go with, i recommend getting them road force balanced. Higher chance of correct balancing with these bigger tires that will shake your steering apart since you probably won't be replacing bushings either.

Do it right the first time. Don't be mad later: 31" KM2s with a 1" body block until you are ready to regear to 5.29s with 35s and 3.5" lift, and preferably an ARB locker.

You were going to take it off road right?

combatcarl

Well, I can't blame ya for wanting to keep the wheel wells full. It WOULD look kind of silly, rolling 31s and a 7" lift. Before tires then, try hunting yards for some 4.56 or 4.88 gears. I know going from a 29-30 inch tire to my 31s definitely made a power difference. Freeway cruise is a little less strained, 75 is a lot easier to get to and maintain, but it's a 4-5 downshift on any real hill now. If it seems down on power, it's probably just the big tires and stock gears.

ToyoKev86

Yes, but not really that often since my truck spends most of its time on the road. Also, 38's are too big for my liking, so there's no way I'm getting those.

Re-gearing seems to be a bit prohibitive for me because from what I've read elsewhere on this forum, it's expensive and complicated, but please correct me if I'm wrong. In that case, the easier way to re-gear would be to buy a front and rear diff that have already been re-geared (makes sense to re-gear both diff's, to me at least), like what combatcarl suggested. However, the problem with that is the Pickups and 4Runners (the models with interchangeable parts) very rarely turn up at the local junkyards in my area, so looking for used parts is pretty difficult, especially used aftermarket parts. There was one time where my dad and I were going around looking for a hood and front fenders for my truck; we ended up going to I think 10 junkyards, and only one of them had the parts we were looking for.

I've even pondered the idea of doing an engine swap for more power, but I don't have the desire or money to do so. If I was to, it would have to be another Toyota engine, probably the Tacoma's 3.4 V6 or even the twin-turbo Supra's 2JZ-GTE. I could also modify my current engine to produce more power, but I just don't want to risk compromising the 22R's famous reliability with mods.

My truck's last owner ran it with the stock gears and 33" tires for years, which brings me to my next question: Would running 33" tires with the stock gearing do any actual long-term damage, realistically?

I'm kinda stuck on deciding what to do; I don't want to drop my lift for smaller tires, and at this point re-gearing is only possible if I absolutely have to. I want to try to do anything I can to make my truck better performance-wise and mechanically without changing too many things or spending too much.

Like I said before, I'm pretty new to this, so I have a lot to learn.

muddpigg

iTrader: (1)

Ah, go 38's and just drive it in low range, with a dual stick in t-case.

Naw just kidding... Regearing is about the cheapest option. An engine swap is spendy.. Not gonna mod a 22re for crazy hp, gears make it all possible. 5.71's aren't really strong enough for offroading. 5.29's about the highest gear ratio you can go.

tj884Rdlx

"I don't want to drop my lift for smaller tires"

This could be the most expensive obstacle you ever face, regardless of any trail you drive.

If you want approval to put giant tires on to fill up the space from excessive lift without proper regearing, you may as well leave yourself a voicemail. Seems you know what you want to do.

"Would running stock gears and 33s do any actual, long term damage?"

YES. My trans is loud as heck from the worn bearings on the shaft for 3rd & 5th gear. I've been waiting for it to grenade, but have somehow postponed the inevitable by using that Lucas gear oil additive and routinely confirming it's topped up.

And that damage is from the p.o. running highway in 3rd all the time with 35s.

33s may not be so bad on the trans, but you're also taxing the engine a bit more, with engine torque curve no longer matched to factory designed gear ratio. So you're increasing heat and oil pressure, reducing life on rings and seals. This is why OEM was 4.88s with 31" tires in the towing package.

Even with stoick 235s going from manual to automatic, Toyota used a taller set of gears, (4.56) because it mattered to them that much.

You can find used 3rds with the gears you want in the classifieds here, or use a Craigslist search engine, or just have them built and do it right. 5.29s and 36s should be good for your lift without looking too stupid.

muddpigg

iTrader: (1)

I bet 35's on stock gears was crap.... Mine had 33's with stock gears and that was a tired dog. But you hit the nail on the head. There's not much getting around having to regear for bigger tires. Only rigs I know with stock gears in the difs and large tires are trailer queens that never drive on the road. But they have gears in the t-cases and I imagine never get driven in 2 high.

combatcarl

When I mention regearing, I mean grabbing 4.56/4.88s thirds from a rig and swapping them into yours. Yeah, having gears done is a bit of a costly thing. But swapping thirds is a day's work. Trouble is, their condition is relatively unknown. So there's that risk. Dropping a lift for smaller tires is also a suckfest. There's just no easy way to do this. Go 33's for now, it's do-able until you find thirds or have money to regear. I don't know where you are, but I see thirds pop up on Craigslist near me, and I can find thirds all day long in junkyards. Learn the axle codes by heart, every time you see a rig in a yard, check for thirds, check the code. You'll get lucky eventually.

highonpottery

iTrader: (1)

Sounds like you need to prioritize your spending and possibly make some changes to accommodate the tire choice.

7" of lift is excessive like everyone said - I'm guessing it's a 4" bracket lift with 3" body lift? Ditching the 3" body lift will cut your wind resistance down considerably. It may even be enough to make 33s+4.10 more livable than currently, if you only drive on flat terrain. 4" bracket lift is plenty of room for 33-35" tires and could even fit 37s if you trim the fenders, but at that point you'll be breaking IFS parts like twigs just from the mass of the tires when you try to steer offroad. I recommend you stay at 33-35" tires and regear your axles to accommodate them and take the stress off your engine and trans. Why regear? Have you ever tried to ride a bike from a stop while stuck in a high gear? Now imagine how your engine feels trying to move tires that are 5 in larger diameter and 40 lbs heavier, each.

The off-road hobby is NOT cheap and usually one upgrade compromises something down-stream and you have to upgrade that too....gearing is not cheap; especially if you pay someone to do it and it's not a simple task for a newbies to tackle themselves. Then there's the "while you're in there" add-ons, such as lockers if you want them too, which most do eventually.

If you were regearing both F/R and adding even the cheapest lockers in both axles, you're looking at around $1500-2000 in just new parts (R/P gearsets, master rebuild kit, locker). If you purchase drop-in units from a vendor, you're still looking $700/ea for an open diff. I don't even know who still carries a complete 7.5" IFS diff. The other option is used diffs if you can find them. You said there aren't any toyota parts in your local salvage yards, that sucks. Even here near me the 4.88 differentials are hard to come by because it's a popular upgrade - they either get swooped up quick or parted because the salvage guys know they have value and can fetch $500/set easily.

As for your actual tires... if you're not wheeling, then I wouldn't waste money on MT tires. Perhaps consider a set of aggressive AT tires instead. They'll be lighter, last longer, less resistance and likely cheaper to buy. Most of the ATs these days are better than the old MT tires we had 20 years ago and can actually perform in most offroad situations that you'd want to put your DD through. Go look at something like a Cooper AT, Falken AT, BFG AT, Duratrac, Cooper ST MAXX, Toyo AT, etc etc etc etc.

ToyoKev86

Swapping the 3rd members was actually exactly what I meant, so I wouldn't have to put up with the difficulties of doing the re-gearing myself. I browse through Craigslist a lot in my free time, so I'll be sure to watch for those 3rd members and I'll continue searching the junkyards as well.

Toyota Pickups used to be somewhat more commonplace several years ago where I live, but they all seem to have disappeared, thus making even the junked ones hard to find. We've had two other '86 4x4's and a '92 V6 in the family over the years. They're so rare now that every time I see one, I act as if I just saw a Ferrari. There are apparently tons of Pickups in the Pensacola area of Florida though, as I noticed when vacationing with my family down there last summer.

I had a feeling it would be better to stay with 33's with my current gearing, but I just hope it won't do too much (if any) harm at the least before I'm able to swap the 3rd's or re-gear.

ToyoKev86

You were correct on the 3" body lift and 4" bracket lift.

It seems like the best option for me is to find used diff's/3rd members since I don't have the experience to do the re-gearing myself, and I definitely don't want to pay someone to do it for me.

I already have a locker that's still in its box, so that's ready if I ever want to install it in the future.

I didn't necessarily say there aren't any Toyota parts in the local junkyards at all, they're just really hard to find. When there are parts available, all the good ones quickly get snatched up, like you said. Last weekend I stopped by at one of the junkyards to look for a front skid plate (even though a stock one won't fit on my truck due to the lift), and they had only two 4Runners whose skid plates had already been taken.

I did think AT tires would be better for me since I've never wheeled my truck before, and to be honest I haven't even used 4WD yet! Right now I'm waiting for the rain so I can go try it out in the mud. I'll admit that the real reason I want MT tires is for aesthetic appeal since I just like the aggressive tread patterns, but like you suggested I might get aggressive AT tires instead. I like my truck a lot, to say the very least, so I wanted to make it "perfect" in every way, but since pure perfection isn't possible, I'd be okay with a few changes.

muddpigg

iTrader: (1)

Mickey Thompson makes some aggressive looking ATs don't forget duratrac.

combatcarl

No, 33s shouldn't destroy anything immediately. Just watch cv's off road. You'll hear the "pop" when you overdo it!