LS1 Engine swap question

TNRabbit · 05-07-2009, 05:38 AM

Has anyone done a GM LS1 engine swap? I figure since the aluminum block weighs about 48% of the iron block, there could be substantial weight savings...

What is the difference in weight between the 3.0 3VZE and the LS1? Where can I get a bell housing adapted for the R150 manual transmission? Can you use the 3VZE clutch/flywheel? What kind of engine mounts did you use?

Also considering the Lexus 1UZ-FE swap....

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Adam F · 05-08-2009, 07:49 AM

The last thing on my mind with a LS1 swap would be weight issues.

You need to worry about breaking stuff like CV axles, ring and pinions, and rear axle shafts.

The LS1 uses the same bolt pattern as the older 5.7 350 engines, so any adapter should work. I use advance adapter's setup.

No, most definetly the 3vze clutch/flywheel would NOT work.

I see advanced has LS1 adapters for land cruisers and jeeps, just nothing for mini trucks.

You should call advance adapters and ask for advice.

[N8] · 05-08-2009, 09:16 AM

What advantage aside from possible off-the-shelf conversion parts could there be to a LS1 swap vs a 1UZFE? It's gotta cost a lot more.

Adam F · 05-09-2009, 05:56 AM

One major thing would be more power

1uze = 256hp 260 ft·lbf

LS1 = 305 - 350 hp 335-375 ft·lbf

TNRabbit · 05-11-2009, 03:16 AM

I'm also considering the 1UZ-FE conversion as well. I found these dimensions online; it looks to be @ 25"x25"x25", which is a pretty damned compact unit. Any ideas if you can use the clutch/flywheel from the 3VZ-E? What about bell housing adapters? I'll get in touch with Advanced Adapters....

TNRabbit · 05-11-2009, 04:39 AM

I also found this EXTREMELY interesting reading; lots of good details (an Australian writer):

http://www.lextreme.com/1uzfe_info.html

TNRabbit · 05-11-2009, 04:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Adam F

One major thing would be more power

1uze = 256hp 260 ft·lbf

LS1 = 305 - 350 hp 335-375 ft·lbf

I don't really need the LS-1 numbers; I'm predominantly looking to shave some weight & increase towing ability. I'm not interested in killing my R150F transmission....

here's some pics of a GORGEOUS 1UZ-FE dropped into a 2wd pickup:

gennro · 05-11-2009, 04:44 AM

There is a few companies in Australlia that make auto to manual adaptors. They will run in the $1500+ for the parts.

[N8] · 05-11-2009, 06:40 AM

If you don't need the power and are interested in researching and making a few custom parts, I'd do the 1UZ over the LS1 for sure - but that's up to you.

If you decide to go 1UZ, there is a TON of useful info at lextreme. You can read for hours upon hours, and you'll need to.

For short answers to your questions - LOTS of options for bellhousing/adapters - some dirt cheap and require a fair amount of custom work, others pretty expensive and bolt-on. Secondly, yes the 3VZE/R150F flywheel can be used with modifications. Lastly, I don't think AA has anything for this swap.

Adam F · 05-11-2009, 09:25 PM

A nice clean 1UZ swap in a 96+ 4Runner would be hot!

TNRabbit · 05-13-2009, 03:53 AM

I've contacted from a couple of folks who've attempted this swap; they said it took up to a couple of years to finally get everything working right, then they had issues with cooling. Sounds good at first but apparently it's a gigantic PITA. One guy said he wished he'd just bought a Tundra & been done with it.....

Here's what one of them had to say (I found the part in red interesting; I asked him who this mysterious engine builder was...waiting on a reply):

"Nope I'm not using the R150. It's pretty obvious in my posts what I'm using. I'm just pointing out that all the information that your asking about is already there for you to see. Please just read through everything and get acquainted with the whole idea and how much effort it has taken me to do the work I've done.

I have told just about everyone that has emailed me to forget about doing this swap. It's an extremely expensive endeavor and takes an extremely long time to make it work. Just for example... I am the only person in the US with a manual 4wd transmission hooked up to a 1UZ engine. It's not the engine that costs so much but the people that have the skills to do the work I have done, they don't work for free... far from it. I wouldn't even put a 1UZ in someones truck if they wanted to pay me more than $5,000. No way. The time it takes... I would make much more money working at my job!

Everything I have done is custom made including all the wiring for the programmable computer that is running the engine. Look around in the US and see how many people have 1UZ or 2UZ engines in their truck. I do not recommend it. It's extremely hard. Extremely time consuming... I'm talking years. Seriously the smartest thing and cheapest thing you could do it to sell your truck and buy a Toyota Tundra. If I didn't build the whole rear suspension from scratch in my truck I would have sold it and bought a Tundra myself.

You have a very good engine in your truck already. I know an engine builder who was contracted by Toyota to take care of engineering flaws that resulted in warrenty work that had to be done at the cost of Toyota. The cylinder heads have a couple engineering flaws but he fixes them and he has ported and polished them for customers who use them in sand rails. Good engines after you have the heads worked on.

I just happen to have a friend of mine near me who has a 90's 4Runner that he took his 3VZ out of for the 1UZ swap. He ran out of money and his truck has been sitting for over a year. It costs a lot of money! If you read all the info I have on the forum you'll find out. Especially read the threads in which I talk about how to find an engine to use and how not to get screwed by a wrecking yard.

Before I bought my first engine I studied for 1 year about the 1UZ and if I should really do the swap. I suggest you keep on reading and hopefully discover that it's not worth it. I did it simply because I had the 4cyl engine in my truck. If I had a 6 cyl.. even the 3VZ - I wouldn't have ever done it.

I hope this helps! Keep on learning. And go to Lextreme.com and read all the info on that forum. There is a lot to learn."

gennro · 05-13-2009, 06:10 AM

Hmm, that guy you just quoted TNRabbit, he hasn't supported that at all with any facts. All he said it was hard and expensive to do. I'm currently in the middle of doing a 1UZ swap into my 1988 toyota pickup. For one thing that can make this swap expensive is trying to bolt and engine up to a manual transmission which never came with a manual transmission. It will cost you over 2 grand plus to get the parts to bolt up a manual transmission.

Cheapest way I have found out to accomplish this engine swap with keeping the A30-41LE transmission is to pull the transfer case and output shaft out of a A30-80 out of a 86 to 95 V6 or I4 automatic transmission and swap them onto the A30-41LE 4-speed automatic.

The other problem with the manual swap onto these is all the ECUs used in the US all have the automatic transmission computers intergrated, which has been known to cause problems without the automatic hooked up. But I believe this has to do with the LS400 engines with the traction control installed because the traction controller uses the speed sensor off the tailshaft of the A30-41LE. Now there is an overseas Toyota Crown where the ECU and ECT where seperate and thats why over in Austraillia there are great successes with running a manual gearbox behind the 1UZ. Also there are two manufactures that sell the parts to bolt up a 1UZ to a R150/1 transmissions.

Cooling issues can always be fixed with a proper fan and radiator setup. An oil cooler would be worth while. But the thing is the engine bay in a SC400 car is more crowded then the bay of a toyota pickup.

TNRabbit · 05-13-2009, 06:35 AM

there's a huge thread on the entire swap; I'll try to find it again. Thus far, I've found a lot of folks TRYING to do this swap, but no successful ones yet in the USA.

gennro · 05-13-2009, 07:06 AM

I'll have my 1UZ swap running next month for the most part. It is not a difficult swap, but it is not a direct bolt in. I have to fabricate motor mounts and lots of wiring to make it work. All new exhaust fabricated also. The radiator i'll be using will be a 3-core used on the 22rtes. If the 22rte radiator doesn't work i'll go to a summit racing universial aluminum radiator. The fan for now i'll be using is a fan from a early 90's ford tarus.

gennro · 05-13-2009, 07:08 AM

Another mistake doing a 1UZ swap is not buying a donar car. Buying just the engine and trying to piece the rest together is really costly.

TNRabbit · 05-14-2009, 07:11 AM

When did you start on yours, gennro?

gennro · 05-14-2009, 07:36 AM

In april 09

Cplmike · 05-21-2009, 02:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TNRabbit

Has anyone done a GM LS1 engine swap? I figure since the aluminum block weighs about 48% of the iron block, there could be substantial weight savings...

What is the difference in weight between the 3.0 3VZE and the LS1? Where can I get a bell housing adapted for the R150 manual transmission? Can you use the 3VZE clutch/flywheel? What kind of engine mounts did you use?

Also considering the Lexus 1UZ-FE swap....

Hey, I am about ready to do a LS engine conversion. In my research I found that most of the LS series engines are iron block and aluminum heads, thats going to be quite a bit heavier than your 22r motor. Sooo... I found that the engine to use, in my case anyway, is the L33. It was only available on extended cab 4WD pickup trucks. 2005-2007 Chevrolet Silverado 1500 4WD and 2005-2007 GMC Sierra 1500 4WD some of them were hooked up to the 4L60E trans. Oh, the L33 is the aluminum version of the LM7 its 5.3L , I think the motor weighs about 100lb more than a 22r. My Toyota is a '87 extra cab with a 2" body lift. I think for clearance all I am going to have to do is add Downey's 26 mm H.D. "Forged" Torsion Bars and level out the back half with a spacer between the leaf springs and axle. Throw in Downeys engine conversion kit and I'll be good to go. Sounds easy ,huh? well I know there is going to be alot more to it that that but I have been wanting to do this since I first bought this tuck back in 1990 or 91 anyway for awhile. Let me know if you have any suggestions.

TNRabbit · 05-21-2009, 07:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cplmike

Hey, I am about ready to do a LS engine conversion. In my research I found that most of the LS series engines are iron block and aluminum heads, thats going to be quite a bit heavier than your 22r motor. Sooo... I found that the engine to use, in my case anyway, is the L33. It was only available on extended cab 4WD pickup trucks. 2005-2007 Chevrolet Silverado 1500 4WD and 2005-2007 GMC Sierra 1500 4WD some of them were hooked up to the 4L60E trans. Oh, the L33 is the aluminum version of the LM7 its 5.3L , I think the motor weighs about 100lb more than a 22r. My Toyota is a '87 extra cab with a 2" body lift. I think for clearance all I am going to have to do is add Downey's 26 mm H.D. "Forged" Torsion Bars and level out the back half with a spacer between the leaf springs and axle. Throw in Downeys engine conversion kit and I'll be good to go. Sounds easy ,huh? well I know there is going to be alot more to it that that but I have been wanting to do this since I first bought this tuck back in 1990 or 91 anyway for awhile. Let me know if you have any suggestions.

Thanks for the info; I have the 3vze, though...which is around 500 lbs~

mastacox · 05-21-2009, 08:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cplmike

Hey, I am about ready to do a LS engine conversion. In my research I found that most of the LS series engines are iron block and aluminum heads, thats going to be quite a bit heavier than your 22r motor.

If it's got an LS* designation, it's an all-aluminum engine. The only exception I can find to that is the LSX race engine that was presented at SEMA. You may be talking about L-series Vortec engines, instead of LS-series engines.

RMA · 05-21-2009, 02:35 PM

Mr Rabbit forget about the LS1, stick with the 1UZ.

mastacox · 05-21-2009, 03:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RMA

Mr Rabbit forget about the LS1, stick with the 1UZ.

Why?

The LS1 swap is more common, parts for the conversion are more readily available, and you'd get more power. I would also argue that an LS1 swap has as good a coolness factor as a 1UZ swap.

RMA · 05-21-2009, 04:03 PM

only because there is less 1UZFE in the 4runners here in the states, and just to keep it all toyota .
I am sure there is a coolness factor to the LS1 to some people.
I am not trying to say one is better than the other just I prefer the 1UZFE even though I have not seen either motor in a 4runner in person.

VEGASROBBI · 07-28-2009, 10:49 AM

I've had and LS series engine for about a year now in my 1982 LWD 4x4 PU. It's an LH-6 (all aluminum HO 5.3 with AFM)
Has about 350hp, and gets over 25mpg in 4cyl mode.
I bought this truck new in 1981, converted it to a 3.8 Buick V-6 then a 283 small block Chevy. I put about 300,000 miles on the small block, good motor; however,
The LS engine is awsome, great power, great mileage, and drivability is far superior to all the others. With ETC peddle bobble off road is eliminated, steep angles and flooding out are a thing of the past. Overall weight is about the same as stock I would say. IM running Downey springs and the ride height is the same as with the 22R.
The biggest issue is cooling. I removed the core suppourt and added a large aluminum racing radiator. My truck has A/C, P/S, /P/B....etc, no overheating.
If you want more info or pics please ask, Robbie.

mastacox · 07-28-2009, 10:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by VEGASROBBI

I've had and LS series engine for about a year now in my 1982 LWD 4x4 PU. It's an LH-6 (all aluminum HO 5.3 with AFM)
Has about 350hp, and gets over 25mpg in 4cyl mode.

I'm not a GM guy, but I do know that is not an LS-series V-8; it's an L-series all-aluminum Vortec engine with active fuel management. Just because it's all-aluminum doesn't mean it's an LS V-8.

As a general rule, unless the engine is a 5.7-7.0 liter engine that came available in a Corvette between 1997 and now it isn't an LS V-8. One of the rare exceptions to this rule is the LS-4, which is a transverse mounted 5.3l all-alloy V-8 with LS-6 heads used in some FWD applications like the Grand Prix GXP.

05-08-2009, 07:49 AM	#2 (permalink)
Adam F Registered User Join Date: May 2002 Location: Cincinnati Ohio Posts: 2,397	The last thing on my mind with a LS1 swap would be weight issues. You need to worry about breaking stuff like CV axles, ring and pinions, and rear axle shafts. The LS1 uses the same bolt pattern as the older 5.7 350 engines, so any adapter should work. I use advance adapter's setup. No, most definetly the 3vze clutch/flywheel would NOT work. I see advanced has LS1 adapters for land cruisers and jeeps, just nothing for mini trucks. You should call advance adapters and ask for advice. __________________ 88 4Runner. 350 V8, R150 5-speed. SAS, 36" TSL's, elocker rear

05-08-2009, 09:16 AM	#3 (permalink)
[N8] Registered User Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Lancaster, PA Posts: 281	What advantage aside from possible off-the-shelf conversion parts could there be to a LS1 swap vs a 1UZFE? It's gotta cost a lot more. __________________ \| '91 4runner \| 22RE \| 5-spd \| 5.29's \| Locked F & R \| 35" BFG AT's (no lift) \| TG Rear Bumper \| SS IFS Truss \| AISIN Hubs \| OME Steer. Stab. \|

05-09-2009, 05:56 AM	#4 (permalink)
Adam F Registered User Join Date: May 2002 Location: Cincinnati Ohio Posts: 2,397	One major thing would be more power 1uze = 256hp 260 ft·lbf LS1 = 305 - 350 hp 335-375 ft·lbf __________________ 88 4Runner. 350 V8, R150 5-speed. SAS, 36" TSL's, elocker rear

05-11-2009, 04:44 AM	#8 (permalink)
gennro Registered User Join Date: May 2009 Location: Virginia Posts: 69	There is a few companies in Australlia that make auto to manual adaptors. They will run in the $1500+ for the parts. __________________ 1988 Toyota truck with a 1UZ swap http://www.yotatech.com/f158/88-toyo...s-more-181467/

05-11-2009, 06:40 AM	#9 (permalink)
[N8] Registered User Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Lancaster, PA Posts: 281	If you don't need the power and are interested in researching and making a few custom parts, I'd do the 1UZ over the LS1 for sure - but that's up to you. If you decide to go 1UZ, there is a TON of useful info at lextreme. You can read for hours upon hours, and you'll need to. For short answers to your questions - LOTS of options for bellhousing/adapters - some dirt cheap and require a fair amount of custom work, others pretty expensive and bolt-on. Secondly, yes the 3VZE/R150F flywheel can be used with modifications. Lastly, I don't think AA has anything for this swap. __________________ \| '91 4runner \| 22RE \| 5-spd \| 5.29's \| Locked F & R \| 35" BFG AT's (no lift) \| TG Rear Bumper \| SS IFS Truss \| AISIN Hubs \| OME Steer. Stab. \|

05-11-2009, 09:25 PM	#10 (permalink)
Adam F Registered User Join Date: May 2002 Location: Cincinnati Ohio Posts: 2,397	A nice clean 1UZ swap in a 96+ 4Runner would be hot! __________________ 88 4Runner. 350 V8, R150 5-speed. SAS, 36" TSL's, elocker rear

05-13-2009, 06:10 AM	#12 (permalink)
gennro Registered User Join Date: May 2009 Location: Virginia Posts: 69	Hmm, that guy you just quoted TNRabbit, he hasn't supported that at all with any facts. All he said it was hard and expensive to do. I'm currently in the middle of doing a 1UZ swap into my 1988 toyota pickup. For one thing that can make this swap expensive is trying to bolt and engine up to a manual transmission which never came with a manual transmission. It will cost you over 2 grand plus to get the parts to bolt up a manual transmission. Cheapest way I have found out to accomplish this engine swap with keeping the A30-41LE transmission is to pull the transfer case and output shaft out of a A30-80 out of a 86 to 95 V6 or I4 automatic transmission and swap them onto the A30-41LE 4-speed automatic. The other problem with the manual swap onto these is all the ECUs used in the US all have the automatic transmission computers intergrated, which has been known to cause problems without the automatic hooked up. But I believe this has to do with the LS400 engines with the traction control installed because the traction controller uses the speed sensor off the tailshaft of the A30-41LE. Now there is an overseas Toyota Crown where the ECU and ECT where seperate and thats why over in Austraillia there are great successes with running a manual gearbox behind the 1UZ. Also there are two manufactures that sell the parts to bolt up a 1UZ to a R150/1 transmissions. Cooling issues can always be fixed with a proper fan and radiator setup. An oil cooler would be worth while. But the thing is the engine bay in a SC400 car is more crowded then the bay of a toyota pickup. __________________ 1988 Toyota truck with a 1UZ swap http://www.yotatech.com/f158/88-toyo...s-more-181467/

05-13-2009, 07:06 AM	#14 (permalink)
gennro Registered User Join Date: May 2009 Location: Virginia Posts: 69	I'll have my 1UZ swap running next month for the most part. It is not a difficult swap, but it is not a direct bolt in. I have to fabricate motor mounts and lots of wiring to make it work. All new exhaust fabricated also. The radiator i'll be using will be a 3-core used on the 22rtes. If the 22rte radiator doesn't work i'll go to a summit racing universial aluminum radiator. The fan for now i'll be using is a fan from a early 90's ford tarus. __________________ 1988 Toyota truck with a 1UZ swap http://www.yotatech.com/f158/88-toyo...s-more-181467/

05-13-2009, 07:08 AM	#15 (permalink)
gennro Registered User Join Date: May 2009 Location: Virginia Posts: 69	Another mistake doing a 1UZ swap is not buying a donar car. Buying just the engine and trying to piece the rest together is really costly. __________________ 1988 Toyota truck with a 1UZ swap http://www.yotatech.com/f158/88-toyo...s-more-181467/

05-14-2009, 07:36 AM	#17 (permalink)
gennro Registered User Join Date: May 2009 Location: Virginia Posts: 69	In april 09 __________________ 1988 Toyota truck with a 1UZ swap http://www.yotatech.com/f158/88-toyo...s-more-181467/

05-21-2009, 02:35 PM	#21 (permalink)
RMA Contributing Member Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: San Jose ,Ca Posts: 1,132	Mr Rabbit forget about the LS1, stick with the 1UZ. __________________ '89 2wd X-tracab,W55,22re,My DD '94 SR5 4Runner 4x4,A340H, 3VZE,Alpine deck,Wifes DD '88 SR5 4runner ,A341E,1UZ-FE,kenwoodVZ907, XRC8, Homemade Roof rack.33x10.50,15 KM2 1" home made body lift, BJ spacers ,CB, rear disc brakes ,lockright rear.sky ebrake,truetrac front. My swap thread http://www.yotatech.com/f161/1uz-fe-...0-3vze-185324/

05-21-2009, 04:03 PM	#23 (permalink)
RMA Contributing Member Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: San Jose ,Ca Posts: 1,132	only because there is less 1UZFE in the 4runners here in the states, and just to keep it all toyota . I am sure there is a coolness factor to the LS1 to some people. I am not trying to say one is better than the other just I prefer the 1UZFE even though I have not seen either motor in a 4runner in person. __________________ '89 2wd X-tracab,W55,22re,My DD '94 SR5 4Runner 4x4,A340H, 3VZE,Alpine deck,Wifes DD '88 SR5 4runner ,A341E,1UZ-FE,kenwoodVZ907, XRC8, Homemade Roof rack.33x10.50,15 KM2 1" home made body lift, BJ spacers ,CB, rear disc brakes ,lockright rear.sky ebrake,truetrac front. My swap thread http://www.yotatech.com/f161/1uz-fe-...0-3vze-185324/

07-28-2009, 10:49 AM	#24 (permalink)
VEGASROBBI Registered User Join Date: Jul 2009 Posts: 1	My LS Toy I've had and LS series engine for about a year now in my 1982 LWD 4x4 PU. It's an LH-6 (all aluminum HO 5.3 with AFM) Has about 350hp, and gets over 25mpg in 4cyl mode. I bought this truck new in 1981, converted it to a 3.8 Buick V-6 then a 283 small block Chevy. I put about 300,000 miles on the small block, good motor; however, The LS engine is awsome, great power, great mileage, and drivability is far superior to all the others. With ETC peddle bobble off road is eliminated, steep angles and flooding out are a thing of the past. Overall weight is about the same as stock I would say. IM running Downey springs and the ride height is the same as with the 22R. The biggest issue is cooling. I removed the core suppourt and added a large aluminum racing radiator. My truck has A/C, P/S, /P/B....etc, no overheating. If you want more info or pics please ask, Robbie.

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