zinprogress

How is the drivability in your 4x4 7mgte swapped truck.

How does it cruise down the interstate? Can you do 80mph without being in boost and still have passing room? Have you gone on a road trip in it? How did it do economically on this road trip?

Im strongly considering this swap, but im wanting the truck to be able to cruise at interstate speeds and the ability of the 7mgte to do this is the main deciding factor on doing this swap.

thank you!

JasonYota

iTrader: (1)

Interested to hear people's responses.

Also include gear ratio, tire size, vehicle ie. truck, 4runner. And a total weight if you can. All those have effects on performance.

zinprogress

I feel it's a very important subject that never gets covered in these swaps

dark_fairytales

When I get home, I will do some math, just to present some scientific numbers regarding the -ge, and the -gte varients of the 7m.

I know this does not answer the question, but I do have a Mk.3 Supra, and was planing the swap. I can say this much about the 7m-ge, it will blow the shirt off a 22re, and 3.slow.

zinprogress

Oh I bet. I've owned everything from a 22re, 22rte and the 3.slow and honestly I wasn't really impressed with any of them. The rte was fun with the ct26, but just couldn't cruise down the interstate the way I would like it to.

I would like to think that the displacement and torque of the 7mgte could give me the daily driving (not rock crawling, now creeping through the woods) experience that I'm looking for.

wyoming9

iTrader: (1)

Having all the parts to do the 7MGTE swap i just quit I like the 3.4 much better

zinprogress

Does anyone know another forum I could post this in to maybe get a variety of responses?

blake.nemitz

i cant comment directly on the 7m swap but i did a 2jzgte and there might be similarities.
It will cruise at whatever speed you want. mileage wise is gets low 20's driving like a grandma but on the highway cruising at 85-90 the mileage is around 15 and that might be generous. passing power is always there and violently accelerates when you put your foot down. Ive had it up to 135 and still had most of OD left but didnt trust the truck and tires to hold up past that.

This swap will definatly be worth it for you. there really isnt a down side, better milage, power, and if you care probably less emmisions since you dont have to floor it everywhere. being an inline six its going to have plenty of torque. DO IT AND POST PICS

blake.nemitz

first gen runner 31 tires stock gears. going to 33's or 35's instead of gears to try and limit loss of traction from taking off. it spins at any speed when floored when it rains and can get squirrely fast. a jdm 2jz or 1jz will be cheaper for ya instead of pieceing together a 7m swap. I spent around 4k on mine and that includes the motor and trans.

blake.nemitz

http://www.ebay.com/itm/TOYOTA-1996-2000-SOARER-CHASER-CROWN-2-5L-TURBO-1JZGTE-VVTI-ENGINE-ONLY-1JZ-/261547093449?pt=Motors_Car_Truck_Parts_Accessories&hash=item3ce56bedc9&vxp=mtr
http://www.ebay.com/itm/JDM-TOYOTA-SUPRA-SOARER-CHASER-1JZ-GTE-ENGINE-5SPEED-MANUAL-TRANSMISSION-ECU-/291216906159?pt=Motors_Car_Truck_Parts_Accessories&hash=item43cde157af&vxp=mtr

blake.nemitz

that manual trans can have the guts swapped with your manual trans and swap outputshaft and you can have a 5speed 1jz swap and maintain 4wd

zinprogress

I would love to do a 1jz and would honestly prefer to do the 2jz but I don't see how the cost would be cheaper. I know right now where I can get a running wrecked 7mgte 5sp supra for $1,100.

I'll definitely take tons of photos and try to be as thorough as possible when doing my swap!

dark_fairytales

Hilux/ Pickup 22re (140lb/ft) (5th gear .85:1), (Diff. Final drive 4.10:1), (Stock tire size 28 inches)
------------------------------119lb/ft-----------487.9lb/ft---------------34.85lb/ft
Hilux/ Pickup 3vze (180lb/ft) (5th gear .83:1), (Diff. Final drive 4.10:1), (Stock tire size 28 inches)
------------------------------149.4lb/ft---------612.54lb/ft--------------43.75lb/ft
Hilux/ Pickup 22rte (173lb/ft) (5th gear .83.lb/ft), (Diff. Final drive 4.10:1), (Stock tire size 28inches)
------------------------------143lb/ft-----------588.71lb/ft--------------42.05lb/ft
Supra N/A 7m-ge (200lb/ft) (5th gear .78:1), Diff. Final drive 4.30:1), (Stock tire size 23.5 inches)
------------------------------156lb/ft------------670lb/ft----------------57.08lb/ft
Supra Turbo 7m-gte (240lb/ft) (5th gear .78:1), (Diff. Final drive 3.73:1), (Stock tire size 23.5 inches)
------------------------------187.2lb/ft-----------698.25lb/ft------------59.42bl/ft

The table above shows all of the stock torque values of each engine and vehicle related to the gear ratios shown, and how the torque value is transferred to the road via the tire surface. The math works out in this fashion; (Engine Torque) X (Selected Gear Ratio) X (Final Drive Gear Ratio) / (Radius of Tire) = Torque where the tire meets the road surface. All of this information is helpful when contemplating Gear Selection, or Engine Swaps, because torque is the physical force which drives a vehicle up a hill or maintains it's speed, along the interstate.

The OP has some great questions, and I do agree; it would be nice to hear from others who have performed the swap, and what has been their experience while driving along the interstate. I predict the experience has been fantastic, and I can show why.

The OP asked,”How did it do economically on this road trip?” Comparing weight and torque is an easy way to calculate, for just such a question. A Turbo Supra weighs in at 3388lb (Which I know is actually wrong as many people have weighed their Supra and get much higher results), and a second generation Pickup/ Hilux scales at 2800lb. Knowing the weight allows us to calculate lb/ft of torque per ton, (Engine Torque) / (Vehicle Weight) X (One Ton, or 2000lb) = Torque lb/ft per ton:

Pickup 22re (140lb/ft), (2800lb)
100lb/ft per ton
Supra 7m-gte (240lb/ft), (3388lb)
141.67lb/ft per ton
This comparison can also be shown, as the Supra only needs to push 14.11lb of the cars weight per One lb/ft of torque produced. And, the Pickup must push 20lb of weight per One lb/ft of torque produced. Greater demands require greater amounts of fuel. Real world experience has shown me this is the case. I hyper-mile as a hobby, and The best I ever got in the Pickup with 35's and 5.29 gears, plus all the camping gear needed, for a weekend of wheeling, including two people riding in the bed of the truck, was 26mpg, and with the Supra 30mpg. A turbo will certainly change thing a little, but to someone who hyper-mile(s) purposely, a turbo makes little difference, as a turbo actually make engines more efficient.

“Can you do 80mph without being in boost and still have passing room? “, is a very tough question to answer with the current information I could find. However, I will attempt to work this out on paper.
First off, Toyota never released the compressor map, for the CT26 turbocharger too the public. So, all discussion about the actual specifications of the CT26 turbocharger is all theory. The best anyone, or anybody has ever been able to do, is to compare other known turbo compressor maps of turbos that have similar physical dimensions too the CT26. I ended up looking for real-world info regarding the CT26 by asking, “What engine rpm does the 7mgte start to spool, and produce boost?” My question turned out to be a bigger task then I anticipated.

The best information I could find regarding the CT26 too start spooling, occurred at 2400rpm, and the max stock boost pressure is limited at 5-6psi at 6000rpm. Due to not finding the base ratio of the W56 transmission I can not present all of the proper math, for calculation related the turbocharger boosting at a given MPH. I have had to rely on the information that can be collected from grimmjeeper.com.

According to grimmjeeper.com, a stock Toyota Pickup, with stock gears and 28inch tires, will have an engine rpm of 3350 revs. per minute. So, certainly 80mph will be in the boost production range of the turbo for the 7M. The throttle valve is the only restriction that keeps the boost out of the cylinders. However, with my experience, I found it quite difficult to maintain the Supra at a speed below 80mph on the interstate. In Fifth gear at 65mph I am not even using 25% of the throttle, And remember, mine is not even turbocharged. So, there is certainly enough head room for passing on the interstate, which also indicates that cruising at 80mph does not require any boost. Using a 7mgte for an engine swap, certainly must provides an excellent driving experience in a Toyota Pickup/ 4Runner.

Every one who has swapped a 5vze absolutely loves the 3.4v6. However, I believe the 7m-ge is even better regarding drivability, and I am going to show why. The under square form-factor of the 7m-ge produces a better torque curve, which in-turn provides a wider power band. At around 2100rpm the 5vze make about 81lb/ft of torque, and tops off at about 3700rpm. In comparison, the 7m-ge jumps too 180lb/ft torque, and stays above 180 torque until 5400rpm. Plus that power band is made by a smaller displacement engine that is naturally aspirated. The turbocharged 7mgte pushes that same torque curve past 220lb/ft of the 5vze, to peak at 240lb/ft.

5vze


7m-ge


These are the reasons I wanted to do the 7m swap, however my new rig would not be smog legal with the 7m that I currently have, so I have decided too migrate my future swap to a 2jz-ge.

nothingbetter

wow, ^^^^ thats a lot of text.

I love my 7m. 4200lbs. I've driven it around 80,000km. I can consistently get low 20s for fuel economy on the highway. Nice smooth, usable, power. my SAFC says I use around %13 throttle going down the highway at 100kmph. That equals to 10 inches of vac ay 4000ft. Most hills can be pulled without downshifting and not going into boost. But I have killed 5th in 2 trannys from doing so.

Read all the build up threads on here. I'm assuming you've found supracharged.com?

blake.nemitz

thats a good deal. if it runs and can be swapped as is it would be cheaper. however with the HG problems these engines had or if it needs a rebuild in the near future it can get expensive quick. the 7m swap would be way easier than a jz swap. my next one is a 1jz in a jeep, i know heresy but it will be a sleeper

egesledder

So I've taken my 7mgte truck on plenty of road trips. I did a 3,000 mile road trip a couple months after it was completed. I'm running stock boost and non-intercooled still, so definitely not a built powerhouse like some people's swaps (YET...hehe). Here's what I've found:

With 4.56 gears, tacoma R150, and 33's, it rev's a bit higher at 80mph than I'd like. 35's make it quite a bit better. If I were to stick with 33's, I'd probably drop to 4.30 or 4.10 if I was going to do a lot of highway driving, then maybe put lower gears in the transfer case for offroading.

At 80mph, I'm getting around 14-15mpg. I think that has quite a bit to do with the crappy aerodynamics of a lifted '85 toyota pickup, not with the motor. At 65mph on flat ground sustained for a whole tank, I get around 17-18mpg. At 65mph through the mountains I get 21mpg... somehow. I guess it has a lot to do with up and down and elevation.

So yea, I've never had a problem holding speed at all, it just depends on how much fuel you want to use. I can still blow past people going up Colorado passes above treeline fully loaded with camp gear and bicycles on top or a motorcycle on the hitch.

Now, the real truth with a 7m swap is that its pretty much never as cheap as it looks on paper. Pretty much every 7m out there that you're buying for cheap probably needs to be rebuilt. Even the ones that are more expensive because they've just been "rebuilt" can be a gamble (read my swap thread). For the money I have in my swap+ motor rebuild, I could have done any number of other swaps. I like my swap because its quick and makes cool turbo noises, but I would have been just as happy with a v8 of some sort too. Do what you want, but don't do a 7m swap because it looks like a cheap option.

liveoffroad

i'll add to this discussion. i did an n/a 7m swap about 5 years ago now and its still goin! i rebuilt the top end when i got it since most of these motors have issues with that, but at almost 200k the lower end is still goin, though i will probably rebuild it this winter since its starting to smoke a bit and the compression is a little low. i've driven it all over colorado and utah to go wheeling and never had any complaints. I get 20-22 mpg on the highway averaging 65-75 mph. the n/a isn't a v8 by any means, i still have to get into 3rd occasionally on the steeper hills here in colorado, but for normal highway driving i can pull most hills in 5th. I'm running 5.29's on 35's with a g52 trans, and everything has held up great so far.
would i do the swap again? thats the big question, i'd probably say no and here's why: the 7m has decent power but its all in the higher RPM's. this is impractical for a truck. the biggest issue for me though is that i don't like the way it fits in the engine bay. i had all sorts of trouble getting a radiator and fans to fit (you can read all about it in my build thread if your interested) and even though my current setup is doing great and my engine never gets hot, I would really like to have a/c and with 2 pusher fan's there's no way that's going to happen. So my 1st choice for an engine swap would be the 3.4 v6. they are becoming easier and cheaper to find, they are just as reliable as a 22re with equivalent power to a 7mge and they fit perfectly in the engine bay. there's also the supercharger option if you want more power.
so in conclusion, the best thing i can say about the 7m is gas mileage (a 3.4 will get mid teens) and i really can't complain about he reliability. i chose the 7mge because i believe it to be more reliable and easier to keep cool than the 7mgte but that may or may not be true. If i were to do it again i'd go with a 3.4 (preferably supercharged) and i would be fine with the worse gas mileage for a weekend recreational vehicle.
hope that helps.

slimbobaggins

I don't have any practical experience to add to this discussion, but I did want to say that the below post from dark_fairytales appears to be incorrect, in that they claim the 5VZE engine makes 81 lb-ft of torque at 2100 rpms, whereas it looks to me from the dyno graph that the vehicle dyno'ed had an automatic transmission with an unlocked converter, so the torque curve at that low of an rpm is unreliable for comparison purposes. A quick google search tells me stock Taco converts have a stall speed of 1800-2200, depending on the year.

That's not to say that the 7m doesn't make more torque, but I don't think it's the 100 lb-ft difference at the same rpm. The torque from the 3.4L at 2100 rpms is probably closer to the 155ish lb-ft that the curve shows at the slightly higher rpm.

Also, the Supra dyno curve appears to have been from a manual transmission car, which will put down a higher number than the auto will anyways, all other things considered the same... and the Taco dyno probably was 4wd and had to go through a transfer case after auto tranny, which = even more driveline loss.

The point to all my jibber jabber is that comparing chassis dyno graphs between the two motors is pointless due to the extreme variences in vehicles... if you can find engine dyno graphs then that's fine, but to compare across the vehicles, I would build in at least a 20 lb-ft cushion, and understand that you're not going to get a reliable reading in an auto tranny vehicle below 2000 rpms unless the pull is done with the converter locked in the 1:1 gear.