sway bar

kev93p-up · 10-08-2005, 04:17 PM

Lately I've noticed my runner acting a little skittish on small abrupt bumps on the highway. Today I realized that my right hand sway bar link is broken. I figure this is not helping my handeling issue along with worn out shocks. The truck is stock as it sits but I'm about to get some OME springs and shocks all around. Is there a better alternative to the factory sway bar set up that may complemint the OME set up?

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4Crawler · 10-08-2005, 05:20 PM

Factory sway bar is fine, or I imagine there are stiffer bars available aftermarket, Sway-A-Way, Addco, etc.

Or, just get some new end-links the proper length for the lift you'll be putting on:

http://www.4crawler.com/4x4/CheapTri...#DisconnectsV2

**waskillywabbit** · 10-08-2005, 06:13 PM

Yep, you might need some adjustable end links for the sway bar

Quick Disconnects

**Tofer** · 10-08-2005, 07:19 PM

the other thing you can do its yank them out completely, i've ran NO sway bars for a while with out a problem, including smashing through mountain curvie roads.... you'll get better flex with out them too.

ASU4runner · 10-08-2005, 07:39 PM

yeah no sway bars isn't too bad if you're off the pavement a good bit. I live in the mountains and it's actually kind of fun driving on the winding mountain roads with them off, but on the highway at 65+ it gets a little tricky. You really need to keep a good hand on the wheel and hope that you dont have to make any emergency maneuvers.

ebelen1 · 10-08-2005, 08:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ASU4runner

yeah no sway bars isn't too bad if you're off the pavement a good bit. I live in the mountains and it's actually kind of fun driving on the winding mountain roads with them off, but on the highway at 65+ it gets a little tricky. You really need to keep a good hand on the wheel and hope that you dont have to make any emergency maneuvers.

I always wondered how people drive w/o sway bars if they do a lot of on-road driving. The stock ones don't seem that great when you're going over 70 miles per hour b/c I still feel body roll. I'm actually upgrading to Addco's pretty soon.

kev93p-up · 10-08-2005, 09:43 PM

I didn't even think about needing more length on the sway bar link with the added spring height. Am I correct in thinking that the sway bar end should be level with the lower control arm?

4Crawler · 10-08-2005, 10:03 PM

You bet, generally you want the ends of the sway bar to be sitting horizontal at rest. Why? Drive hard around a turn and one side of the bar is pushed up, one side pulls up on the opposite side of the suspension. If you start out horizontal on the end, the up and down angles are the same, so you get equal forces on the bar and suspension. If, for example you lifted the suspension and left the bar hanging down at some angle and went around the same corner, the one side would push the end of the bar up, closer to horizontal. The other side would be pulled down farther by the opposing suspension arm. With the near horizontal end, it would have the full leverage effect on the sway bar since the cosine of 90 degrees is 1.0. However the end of the bar that is down at some angle, would have a lesser amount of leverage, reduced by the cosine of it's angle. So this imbalance would result in the bar needing to be twisted farther to resist the cornering force, more twist = more lean in the vehicle or a less efficient sway bar. For example, assume the bar was down at 15 degrees due to the lift and in a turn it was twisted 15 up and down. That would leave the up side at 0 degrees (i.e. horizontal) and the down side down at 30 degrees. At a 30 degree angle the efective length of the end of the bar is now only 86.6% what is was when level (i.e. cos(30)=0.866). So that side can only provide 86% of the roll resistance as it could when level.

A good lift kit should have available a properly sized end-link replacement for the sway bars. Same thing with an LSPV bracket for the rear axle.

kev93p-up · 10-08-2005, 11:25 PM

Thanks for the info!! I'll keep it all in mind when I order everything!

**waskillywabbit** · 10-09-2005, 06:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 4Crawler

You bet, generally you want the ends of the sway bar to be sitting horizontal at rest. Why? Drive hard around a turn and one side of the bar is pushed up, one side pulls up on the opposite side of the suspension. If you start out horizontal on the end, the up and down angles are the same, so you get equal forces on the bar and suspension. If, for example you lifted the suspension and left the bar hanging down at some angle and went around the same corner, the one side would push the end of the bar up, closer to horizontal. The other side would be pulled down farther by the opposing suspension arm. With the near horizontal end, it would have the full leverage effect on the sway bar since the cosine of 90 degrees is 1.0. However the end of the bar that is down at some angle, would have a lesser amount of leverage, reduced by the cosine of it's angle. So this imbalance would result in the bar needing to be twisted farther to resist the cornering force, more twist = more lean in the vehicle or a less efficient sway bar. For example, assume the bar was down at 15 degrees due to the lift and in a turn it was twisted 15 up and down. That would leave the up side at 0 degrees (i.e. horizontal) and the down side down at 30 degrees. At a 30 degree angle the efective length of the end of the bar is now only 86.6% what is was when level (i.e. cos(30)=0.866). So that side can only provide 86% of the roll resistance as it could when level.

A good lift kit should have available a properly sized end-link replacement for the sway bars. Same thing with an LSPV bracket for the rear axle.

ebelen1 · 10-09-2005, 10:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 4Crawler

You bet, generally you want the ends of the sway bar to be sitting horizontal at rest. Why? Drive hard around a turn and one side of the bar is pushed up, one side pulls up on the opposite side of the suspension. If you start out horizontal on the end, the up and down angles are the same, so you get equal forces on the bar and suspension. If, for example you lifted the suspension and left the bar hanging down at some angle and went around the same corner, the one side would push the end of the bar up, closer to horizontal. The other side would be pulled down farther by the opposing suspension arm. With the near horizontal end, it would have the full leverage effect on the sway bar since the cosine of 90 degrees is 1.0. However the end of the bar that is down at some angle, would have a lesser amount of leverage, reduced by the cosine of it's angle. So this imbalance would result in the bar needing to be twisted farther to resist the cornering force, more twist = more lean in the vehicle or a less efficient sway bar. For example, assume the bar was down at 15 degrees due to the lift and in a turn it was twisted 15 up and down. That would leave the up side at 0 degrees (i.e. horizontal) and the down side down at 30 degrees. At a 30 degree angle the efective length of the end of the bar is now only 86.6% what is was when level (i.e. cos(30)=0.866). So that side can only provide 86% of the roll resistance as it could when level.

A good lift kit should have available a properly sized end-link replacement for the sway bars. Same thing with an LSPV bracket for the rear axle.

WOW!!!! True engineering knowledge is pretty powerful even if I barely get it...

4Crawler · 10-09-2005, 11:49 AM

I added a sketch:

and a description on the web page:

http://www.4crawler.com/4x4/CheapTri...#DisconnectsV2

**Tofer** · 10-09-2005, 12:12 PM

thanks for reminding why i hated statics so much.... lol jk, it wasnt that bad of a class

MTL_4runner · 10-09-2005, 12:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ToferUOP

thanks for reminding why i hated statics so much.... lol jk, it wasnt that bad of a class

I was a TA in statics so no prob there......it was dynamics I hated.

10-08-2005, 05:20 PM	#2 (permalink)
4Crawler Contributing Member Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: SF Bay Area, CA Posts: 7,836	Factory sway bar is fine, or I imagine there are stiffer bars available aftermarket, Sway-A-Way, Addco, etc. Or, just get some new end-links the proper length for the lift you'll be putting on: http://www.4crawler.com/4x4/CheapTri...#DisconnectsV2 __________________ 1985 Toyota 4Runner SR-5, 22REC engine, dual t-cases, 4.88 gears, dual ARBs, 33x10.50 BFGs or 35x12.50 MTRs r.c.brown@ieee.org TruckEditor@tlca.org Project: 4Crawler 4Crawler OffRoad Gettin'Off 4WD Club

10-08-2005, 06:13 PM	#3 (permalink)
waskillywabbit Super Moderator-Sponsoring Member Staff Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Tuscaloosa, AL Posts: 14,554	Yep, you might need some adjustable end links for the sway bar Quick Disconnects __________________ WabFab Off-Road, LLC MySpace Twitter Facebook 7th Annual South East 4Runner Jamboree, 2010 The toughest part of a Jeep is the chick driving it. WabFab Off-Road 4th Anniversary Sale

10-08-2005, 07:19 PM	#4 (permalink)
Tofer Super Moderator Staff Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Tacoma WA. Posts: 6,908	the other thing you can do its yank them out completely, i've ran NO sway bars for a while with out a problem, including smashing through mountain curvie roads.... you'll get better flex with out them too. __________________ 94 4runenr: all the good stuff....... 89 4runner: 3.0, Auto, 5.29 lockright f/r. 31x10.5 wildcountry ATs. 81 2wd pickup: 22R \| 5-sp \| long bed \|Civic SI seats \| LockRight \| Hella 500s pacific-crawlers.com For all your Trail-gear and HID lighting Solutions Needs check out yotaworks.com Online store coming soon :)

10-08-2005, 07:39 PM	#5 (permalink)
ASU4runner Registered User Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Boone, NC Posts: 535	yeah no sway bars isn't too bad if you're off the pavement a good bit. I live in the mountains and it's actually kind of fun driving on the winding mountain roads with them off, but on the highway at 65+ it gets a little tricky. You really need to keep a good hand on the wheel and hope that you dont have to make any emergency maneuvers. __________________ '99 4runner Limited 4x4 w/ E-Locker '96 4runner Limited 4x4 SOLD SE4RJ - Pics

10-08-2005, 09:43 PM	#7 (permalink)
kev93p-up Registered User Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Amarillo, Texas Posts: 180	I didn't even think about needing more length on the sway bar link with the added spring height. Am I correct in thinking that the sway bar end should be level with the lower control arm? __________________ 1996 4Runner SR5 V6, stuff... 2007 Dodge Ram 2500 4x4 QuadCab Cummins Turbo Diesel

10-08-2005, 10:03 PM	#8 (permalink)
4Crawler Contributing Member Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: SF Bay Area, CA Posts: 7,836	You bet, generally you want the ends of the sway bar to be sitting horizontal at rest. Why? Drive hard around a turn and one side of the bar is pushed up, one side pulls up on the opposite side of the suspension. If you start out horizontal on the end, the up and down angles are the same, so you get equal forces on the bar and suspension. If, for example you lifted the suspension and left the bar hanging down at some angle and went around the same corner, the one side would push the end of the bar up, closer to horizontal. The other side would be pulled down farther by the opposing suspension arm. With the near horizontal end, it would have the full leverage effect on the sway bar since the cosine of 90 degrees is 1.0. However the end of the bar that is down at some angle, would have a lesser amount of leverage, reduced by the cosine of it's angle. So this imbalance would result in the bar needing to be twisted farther to resist the cornering force, more twist = more lean in the vehicle or a less efficient sway bar. For example, assume the bar was down at 15 degrees due to the lift and in a turn it was twisted 15 up and down. That would leave the up side at 0 degrees (i.e. horizontal) and the down side down at 30 degrees. At a 30 degree angle the efective length of the end of the bar is now only 86.6% what is was when level (i.e. cos(30)=0.866). So that side can only provide 86% of the roll resistance as it could when level. A good lift kit should have available a properly sized end-link replacement for the sway bars. Same thing with an LSPV bracket for the rear axle. __________________ 1985 Toyota 4Runner SR-5, 22REC engine, dual t-cases, 4.88 gears, dual ARBs, 33x10.50 BFGs or 35x12.50 MTRs r.c.brown@ieee.org TruckEditor@tlca.org Project: 4Crawler 4Crawler OffRoad Gettin'Off 4WD Club Last edited by 4Crawler; 10-08-2005 at 10:18 PM.

10-08-2005, 11:25 PM	#9 (permalink)
kev93p-up Registered User Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Amarillo, Texas Posts: 180	Thanks for the info!! I'll keep it all in mind when I order everything! __________________ 1996 4Runner SR5 V6, stuff... 2007 Dodge Ram 2500 4x4 QuadCab Cummins Turbo Diesel

10-09-2005, 11:49 AM	#12 (permalink)
4Crawler Contributing Member Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: SF Bay Area, CA Posts: 7,836	I added a sketch: and a description on the web page: http://www.4crawler.com/4x4/CheapTri...#DisconnectsV2 __________________ 1985 Toyota 4Runner SR-5, 22REC engine, dual t-cases, 4.88 gears, dual ARBs, 33x10.50 BFGs or 35x12.50 MTRs r.c.brown@ieee.org TruckEditor@tlca.org Project: 4Crawler 4Crawler OffRoad Gettin'Off 4WD Club

10-09-2005, 12:12 PM	#13 (permalink)
Tofer Super Moderator Staff Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Tacoma WA. Posts: 6,908	thanks for reminding why i hated statics so much.... lol jk, it wasnt that bad of a class __________________ 94 4runenr: all the good stuff....... 89 4runner: 3.0, Auto, 5.29 lockright f/r. 31x10.5 wildcountry ATs. 81 2wd pickup: 22R \| 5-sp \| long bed \|Civic SI seats \| LockRight \| Hella 500s pacific-crawlers.com For all your Trail-gear and HID lighting Solutions Needs check out yotaworks.com Online store coming soon :)

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