AJatx

I found a leak today (pretty big one) somewhere near the rear driver side wheel. It's pretty messy and I've cleaned up a bit of it.
There is fluid all around the inside of the wheel, back of the hub carrier, and rear shock.

Could it be the axleshaft seal?
Would it be better to have the dealer replace it?

It smells like gear oil.
At first, I thought it was brake fluid since I changed out the front rotors today, but it doesn't smell like brake fluid.

J

AJatx

After doing a search, I found that it's common for the axle seal to wear out prematurely.

I have about 70k miles on the Runner now.
The leak just sprung this afternoon after a test drive for the front rotor replacement.

So, you only need a hydraulic press if you plan to replace the bearings?

Sounds like it's going to be a little tricky for me since I have ABS.

J

Jonathan

Oh Yes! Sounds like the infamous rear axle seal. The 3rd Gen has a real big problem with axle seals going out prematurely. It seems to be one of those things us guys have to deal with on this particular truck. But look at the bright side; that is probably the most serious problem you will ever experience in a Toyota. Mine went out about 7K miles ago and I just let Toyota deal with it. It's expensive, but i really didn't feel like doing it myself. No leaks now so I'm happy. Good luck man.

Jay

1999 with only 67,000 miles.

Do you have record of servicing the rear diff? Perhaps toyota would be kind enough to "Goodwill warranty" it for you, due to all the problems they have had. The brakes have been saturated in gear oil, and the vehicle is unsafe. Ask a dealer, be patient and kind but persistant on there assistance.

Good luck.

AJatx

I did both sides today. It didn't seem too labor intensive.

However, the side that leaked previously is still leaking.
I may have damaged the seal, so I'll check it out tomorrow.
The other side is holding up fine.

The dealership near me blows on service.
But their parts guys are helpful and cool.

J

keisur

Unfortunately, the inner seals are really simple to replace but it is the outer seal you need to replace on the drivers side (leaking side). the inner seal could also be doing it's job but the 90w that was absorbed by the gasket between the hub flange and the circlular metal piece the the outer seals outer lips slides under could be spitting it out which may look like it is still leaking but it may just need to be cleaned. I don't know how to clean it but I know the one I pulled off my 4runner is still leaking 90w from that gasket and that was over 6 months ago, luckily it is just sitting on my garage floor and is scrap. the outer seal requires a press to remove/replace all the crap on the axle. hope this helps.

kxpaul

This is for the do-it-yourself guys.
If your replacing seals and bearings, be sure that you press on the collar to the proper depth. ( those with ABS, its the last collar above the tone ring) If you press the collar (and tone ring) all the way down tight aginst the bearing, the seal will leak. The inner axle seal, seals it self on the collar. ( this is the seal in the axle tube).
FYI, Kxpaul.

AJatx

What are the symptoms of the rear brake drum locking up (when it's contaminated with gear oil)?

I drove the 4Runner to work today and I can hear intermittent clunking from the rear. It sounds and feels like my sports car 1.5 way LSD at low speeds.

I know there is enough gear oil in the rear diff.
I didn't replace the rear brake pads yet.

~I can't believe this little leak is fustrating me~
I can usually do decent mechanical jobs on cars/trucks.

J

keisur

Actually the inner seal seals on the seal surface directly on the axle shaft just before the retainer for the speed sensor gear. that is why if you don't press that collar on far enough, it pushes on the lip of the inner seal and causes the leak.

keisur

If your rear brakes are saturated they will heat up during braking and "stick" to the drum and drag causing a brake smell and possibly smoke. that is what happened to me on the interstate once. then I was pulling into a parking spot and I lightly applied the brakes, I was in gravel and the rear drivers side brake locked up and that wheel skid a couple of inches. take your drum off and inspect the shoes after a couple hundred miles from the seals being replaced. If they are saturated again, then one of the above things I stated above is going on. It so happened that the first time the stealership did the job for me they just sanded and cleaned the shoes and put the same ones back on. I don't know why since they are only about 30 bucks a set but they did. this is not the right thing to do. if they have oil caked on the edges, they are saturated and no matter how much you sand them, they will leak oil out when they heat up and brakes are applied. they proper fix is to have BOTH seals replaced and as stated above make sure the offset is correct to prevent the seal from contacting the inner-most retainer ring.

kxpaul

Two things. One on 99 runner the seal does NOT seal on the shaft. Two, There is no such thing as a speed sensor " GEAR ".

keisur

one thing, sorry for using the term "gear" when in actuality Toyota calls it a "rotor." there are many ways to skin a cat and many different things you can call that cat. If it has teeth, technically it is a "gear."

AJatx

I understand the speed sensor you talk about (gear basically).

On the passenger side, I made sure it was pretty even and the seal was driven firmly in it's place. Hence, no leak (but it never leaked in the first place).

On the driver side, it was the first seal I replaced and I remember that it was a bit tweaked when I drove it in (really lame homeade driver was used until I found my 2 1/2" socket for my 13b motor flywheel nut). So, I really believe the seal may not be doing it's job since it isn't completely even when I drove it into place.

I haven't checked the manual, but how involved is the outer seal replacement? My friend's shop has a press, but I would need to make an adapter to press out the seal.

J

kxpaul

Its a lot more work than the inner. Due to fact you have to dissasemble the entire bearing and backing plate. But the inner
seal on your year of runner is really the only seal that prevents gear lube from leaking. The reason the bearing and outter seal are replaced is due to the fact gear lube contaminated the bearing. ( although its a sealed bearing ) personally if my runner or truck leaked i would NOT change out bearing and outter seal.

While you have the axle out, just clean is as best as possible.
Remember the outter seal is designed to keep out water and dust debris.

Inner seal in axle tube is the important seal. IF you do want to do it. e-mail me and ill call you land line for TIPS.

Kxpaul, certified TOYOTA Tech. Master ASE Tech.




















t

kxpaul

Keisur, Didd you have both inner and outter seals replaced six months ago on the side that is still leaking? And did you do it your self ?

The reason im asking is, Ive seen other techs and do-it -your-selfers make the miss understanding of placing the pressed collar in the wrong place. The inner seal does not seal on the axle shaft like the older vehicles. ( note the axle shaft O.D vs. inner seal I.D.)

If the collar and tone ring ( rotor ) are pressed to far on the shaft,
gear lube will continue to leak.

Good luck, Kxpaul.

keisur

[QUOTE]Originally posted by kxpaul
[B]Keisur, Didd you have both inner and outter seals replaced six months ago on the side that is still leaking?

Both seals, bearing, bearing cup/flange, axle, oring, both retainers, speed sensor rotor, studs, crake backing plate, were deflector and gasket and snap ring were replaced AND IT NO LONGER LEAKS. I have fixed the problem for good.


And did you do it your self ?

Yes I did it myself with the help of a factory service manual, diagrams printed out by the stealership and also offset specs for the placement of the pressed parts. I can assure you mine is done correctly. I slid an extra seal I have onto the axle I have sitting in my garage, and as I have stated, the seal seals up on the axles seal surface just in front of the inner-most retaining ring (the one that secures the abs rotor. It was physical impossible to forced the seals lips up onto the od of the retaining ring since the id of the seal is a little smaller that the id of the retaining ring which would make the od of the retaining ring's od twice it's thickness larger than the id of the seal. I will send you pictures of this fact if you like. I can also send you the offset specs. that will prove that the seal should not touch the retaining ring.

Have you ever done this job on yours?



The reason im asking is, Ive seen other techs and do-it -your-selfers make the miss understanding of placing the pressed collar in the wrong place. The inner seal does not seal on the axle shaft like the older vehicles. ( note the axle shaft O.D vs. inner seal I.D.)

yes it does, no misunderstanding. are you a tech or where are you getting your info from? If you are a tech, maybe this philosphy is the reason why toyota can't seem to fix this problem.

AJatx

Which brake shoe kit should I get?

The dealer is asking $60 for the rear set (both left and right).

Autozone has a few vendors that range from $14 to $24 each shoe.

Any reason why I shouldn't use the Autozone brake shoes?

J

keisur

I tried the AutoZone ones. they were thin and barely hanging onto the frame. when I went to check them after about 10k miles they were almost worn out so they got replaced with OEM ones from toyota. you could try www.performanceproducts.com I think they have the same ones or at least the same quality ones for a little less moolah. this is just my experience and after the autozone (raybestos i think was the brand) I won't use anything but oem toyota pads and shoes.

kxpaul

As always, you get what you pay for. OEM shoes are really good.
100k miles is normal on OEM. ( I think there worth it )

kxpaul

Thanks for the e-mail KEISUR.
I was begining to think i needed to go back to drive terain 101.
Glad the new axle is working out so well.
Absolutly no hard feelings here.

Let the good times roll. Kawasaki LTD. , Kxpaul