fishuntr

I hope you can help me. 1st generation Runner, 22re, manual trans, full tank of gas, oil etc. My relatively new(to me) Runner has been performing almost flawlessly. I was troubleshooting the A/C idle up system. I eliminated the adjustable valve on the intake and was working on the VCV. I was in the process of installing and testing the system wiyth a different VCV that I know was working. Because this VCV had a different plug I was uncertain of the polarity. I made a couple of jumpers and plugged them in. No help on the idle up. I reversed the wires; no help. I decided to check the ground, and just hooked the white w/red tracer to the VCV. I was going to ground the other to a bolt on top of engine. I started the engine, it ran fine, then suddenly just quit. I hadn't yet grounded the other wire, but the red/white was hooked to the VCV. It would not restart at all. I restored all the wires to their original position, including the oringinal VCV. Still no start. I pulled #1 plug wire and confirmed I am getting spark. Must be fuel???; but why? No sparks, nothing smoked or felt hot. I'm not even sure my fooling with the VCV wires had anything to do with it, but it seems suspicious. Could I have caused a short? In the ECM? I'm stumped

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Tacoma Dude

I don't know if this will help you but I let my 1st gen sit for a few months without running (busy at work) and when I did get around to it I changed the sparkplugs, battery, etc. I had a hard time starting and thought it was a vacuum seal issue because of a torn PCV grommet. Drove up to a local shop to get new parts and the entire thing died.

Fast forward few days later at Protrux. Electric fuel pump. Just died. The guy said that because it's an old truck it could have been the nasty sediment at the bottom of the tank if I'd run it to E. I hadn't and the only explanation he could come up with was maybe it was just its time to go.

__________________
Peter!
2002 Tacoma
1986 4Runner

fishuntr

I checked all fuses, inside & out; nada

Mr.mud

How long did it run a second or2 or more than 2 min

fishuntr

Just a few seconds; that's why i suspect it has to do with what I was doing at the time. Also, I read a kittle more, then went out and jumped the fuel pump test circuit which is in a little diagnostic pod on the passenger side behind the main engine fuses.
It didn't help.

Mr.mud

The fuel pump is turned on and off by a relay I am not sure if jumping the pod by passes the relay or if turns the relay on it self turning on the fuel pump. Check the relay, some times toyota will use the same relay for rear/window defrost so you may have a spare to test with. Another thing to think about is when you start your motor the computer goes into start mode and forces the fuel pump on till the computer gets a "run signal" then the fuel pump relay kicks in, I am not sure what sensor on your truck gives the computer this info, but if the computer does not get the signal you will get the same problem you have now. I have a few factory manuels I will see if I can find out for you. Post back soon.

Mr.mud

I just checked the manual (85 truck) and the test pod does turn on the relay so if the relay is bad jumping the pod will not help. The manual shows the "circuit opening relay" is in the pass. kick panel above the efi computer. Check for contanuity at "sta" to "e1", and "+b" and "fc". If you can not read any thing then the relay is bad.

STA to E1 should be 17-25 ohm
+B to Fc should be 88-132 ohm
+B to Fp should be infinity

fishuntr

Thanks Mr Mud; I'll try that in the AM. I am to the point that when I get this fixed, I will just put up with the AC idle up problem. I was just mostly foolin around with my new toy anyway, getting to know it better. Didn't anticipate this though.

2ToyGuy

Mine does that every time I mess with almost anything that the ECU has to do with. Just have to pull the EFI fuse in the interior fuse panel above the driver's side kick panel for 30 seconds (at 68*F, longer at higher temps per the fSM) or the negative battery leads. These ECU's are pretty stupid and get very confused very easily. Just need to reset it and it get's happy again.
Something easy to try, anyway...

__________________
"Well, that didn't work!" - Baron Manfred von Richtofen, during the latter portion of his last flight
'87 4Runner, 22RE, pretty much stock, on it's 3rd head now, 146 k miles
'87 2WD P/U, 22R, stock everything, mostly factory everything too, 286 k miles, beater truck.
10 year US Marine and proud of it. One of my daughters is an active duty Marine, another is Navy!

fishuntr

Good suggestion Guy! I'll try that before I fool with the relay.

fishuntr

OK; looks like MrMud nailed it. I tried disconnecting the battery first and that didn't work. I then removed the relay. Wow, what a bear that was!
I ohmed out and it is bad. I callled my son (Desertoy) and he said he has a couple of the relays, so I should be able to get one from him. Probably be tomorrow before I get it back together and try it.

BTW, MrMud, I found the info you were referring to in my manual too. It also said there should be voltage with the engine running or cranking at the fp terminal of the plug. Obviously I couldn't check it running, but with the key in the run position, I got no voltage. ???

We'll see.

2ToyGuy

It has to have been started to get the voltage there, and why can't you check it running? Stick the + meter lead in the Fp terminal, and the - meter lead to ground (best is the neg term on the battery). Won't hurt anything, as long as you don't let your meter leads get away from you and touch things they shouldn't...

__________________
"Well, that didn't work!" - Baron Manfred von Richtofen, during the latter portion of his last flight
'87 4Runner, 22RE, pretty much stock, on it's 3rd head now, 146 k miles
'87 2WD P/U, 22R, stock everything, mostly factory everything too, 286 k miles, beater truck.
10 year US Marine and proud of it. One of my daughters is an active duty Marine, another is Navy!

fishuntr

Thanks for the reply 2ToyGuy...but..read the first post. It wont run, ie:cant check it running. ;>) You are correct, however, I know it wont show voltage. I think I could jump the fuel pump test circuit again and get voltage. I'm not going to worry about that though; I just picked up another relay from my son's shop, ohmed it out and it appears good. I'm just going to install it and see if the engine starts. I hope, I hope!!!

fishuntr

:cry: Wow; I'm realy bummed now. It didn't work. I tested the new(used) relay and it was in specs. I installed it, and engine still will not start. I checked the plug that I was working on when the engine stalled ( to the VCV) and it has no voltage with key on. When everything was working, there was voltage to that plug with key on. I realize that the VCV has nothing to do with the engine not starting, but I just wanted to see if there was power there.

I had my wife listen for a click down there when i turned the key on and she heard nothing. I pulled the relay back out and tested it again with another V/O meter and it is good. Wow, this has me stumped. Any ideas? MrMud? Anybody?

2ToyGuy

Doh! Sorry 'bout that. Not paying attention, sometimes. But all you need is to have had it run for a few seconds to have been "started" for the purposes of checking the voltage at teh Fp terminal. The ECU needs to sense that the MAF has opened for a specific length of time. Have you checked your MAF? The manual has a good test & check proceedure in it. Same with the TPS. Have you checked the tube from teh MAF to teh TPS for cracks, leaks, and such? That can do what you describe.
Why can I NOT type the word "the" correctly?
So many questions, so few answers...

__________________
"Well, that didn't work!" - Baron Manfred von Richtofen, during the latter portion of his last flight
'87 4Runner, 22RE, pretty much stock, on it's 3rd head now, 146 k miles
'87 2WD P/U, 22R, stock everything, mostly factory everything too, 286 k miles, beater truck.
10 year US Marine and proud of it. One of my daughters is an active duty Marine, another is Navy!

Mr.mud

2ToyGuy is on the right track. Check the air flow meter and that duct tube. Good luck, keep posting on your problem as you have my mind hi centered on this one.

fishuntr

Thanks for the replies guys. I haven't forgotten the problem; I have been knocked off the internet by lightning. My ISP's transmitter tower for my WiFi connection was struck by lightning last Thursday PM. I am just now back on.

I checked some of the things you suggested about the MAF and the air tube.
I checked the TPS; that was a long shot, but is ok. I checked all kinds of connections as well. I think tomorrow I am going to jump the fuel pump and see if it works. I can run a wire to it with 12V. The engine might even start if the pump runs. I think it is a long shot that the pump might be bad, but I guess it's possible. If it runs, and the engine starts, that should narrow down the places to look....right?

2ToyGuy

You can force the fuel pump to run by jumpering B+ to Fp- in the little test connector area just towords the firewall from the underhood fuse box. Actually looks like an extension of the fuse box. Just stick a wire, or even a paperclip in those two slots, and if the fuel pump is good, you'll hear it run...Kind of a quiet whine...You can hear it also if you just get in and turn the key to "start" but leave the clutch out to keep the engine from actually turning over. A word to the wise: Make DARN sure, absolutely CERTAIN that the transmission is in NEUTRAL first, just in case your clutch switch is bad, and it permits the engine to turn over even with the clutch out.

__________________
"Well, that didn't work!" - Baron Manfred von Richtofen, during the latter portion of his last flight
'87 4Runner, 22RE, pretty much stock, on it's 3rd head now, 146 k miles
'87 2WD P/U, 22R, stock everything, mostly factory everything too, 286 k miles, beater truck.
10 year US Marine and proud of it. One of my daughters is an active duty Marine, another is Navy!

fishuntr

Thanks 2ToyGuy. I tried that early on and it didn't work. The schematic shows that to be in line with that bad relay that I already replaced. That's why I want to try jumping it with a separate wire and ground straight to the pump. I can access it pretty easy. This shouldn't "cause" any additional problems...should it?

2ToyGuy

Not that I can see. Just run a wire from the two battery terminals to the pump. Just be VERY carefull about hooking them up. One little spark in a partly filled fuel tank can do really, REALLY bad things, like blow the fuel tank up like a really nice big bomb...REALLY!
I would hook the wires to the pump first , then to the battery. That way you don't have so much to worry about...

__________________
"Well, that didn't work!" - Baron Manfred von Richtofen, during the latter portion of his last flight
'87 4Runner, 22RE, pretty much stock, on it's 3rd head now, 146 k miles
'87 2WD P/U, 22R, stock everything, mostly factory everything too, 286 k miles, beater truck.
10 year US Marine and proud of it. One of my daughters is an active duty Marine, another is Navy!

fishuntr

FIXED IT!
OK; just a quick review. Engine just died and wuldn't start after I evidently crossed a wire while troubleshooting the A/C idle up.

what I did;
1. Check fuses; fuses look ok
2. Check for spark; have spark
3. Cuss; didn't help/
4. Consulted members this forum; got many good suggestions. Also consulted son who is a mechanic.
5. Checked relay over ECU; it was bad; replaced it; still wont start.
6. Studied manual and schematics.
7. Jumped fuel pump via test pod under hood, no help/
8. Checked main EFI relay by fuse panel inside drivers side; checked ok.
9. Checked for power to relay while cranking ( suggestion by 2ToyGuy).; no
power to plug. I originally didn't do this because I knew the engine wasn't
running. This turned out to be significant.
10. Ran a jumper directly from battery to fuel pump. (4Runner has easy access under back seat). Engine started and ran.
11. Consulted son John(Desertoy) "Dad, when you checked the fuses did you ohm them out?" "Well...uh..no, I just looked at them and they looked ok."
12. Check fuses (see #1) ohm out fuses. Found bad one on EFI circuit.
Replaced fuse; started and ran !!!

I feel like a dumb SH##.; but man am I glad I got that fixed. I did learn a lot about how my EFI circuits work. Thanks guys for all your help.

2ToyGuy

Yaaay! Glad it was an easy fix. never trust these fuses to "look" OK. They will fool you every time, as you found out. A quick shot on a multimeter is a much better test, and most of them have holes in the top that you can test them without pulling them.
And never underestimate the power of a good cussing. It can really make these trucks snap into line, sometimes

__________________
"Well, that didn't work!" - Baron Manfred von Richtofen, during the latter portion of his last flight
'87 4Runner, 22RE, pretty much stock, on it's 3rd head now, 146 k miles
'87 2WD P/U, 22R, stock everything, mostly factory everything too, 286 k miles, beater truck.
10 year US Marine and proud of it. One of my daughters is an active duty Marine, another is Navy!

Mr.mud

There is a fine line between a challenge and a pain in the as* some times they are so close you cant see the light between them. Just think next time how much easier it will be to work truck as you now know how the computer and sensor tie together and work work with each other. Congratulations on getting your trunk on the road.

__________________
Doug