Xyphus42

I've been researching this idea alot. need a new motor in my 85 runner so I wanna build something cool. ok here is the math I've come up with...

3RZ crank 95mm Stroke and rods 147mm.... rods are shorter only draw back is the wrist pin 24mm

83-84 22r block "Tall Deck" 231.5mm for extra clearance

85+ 22re pistons, here's the trick though they need to be drilled out for a 24mm wrist pin

and I think a little grind on the block for clearance of the crank.

94mm Bore and 95mm stroke

Last but not least the timing setup... I don't know about this part because I have only been doing research on the net. Maybe a chain conversion for the 3RZ ?? or like EB said a BMW chain.

Just my thoughts and I would like to see what you guys think.

blake.nemitz

if your trying to stroke a 22re you can buy a 2.7 stroker kit that way you dont have to mill your pistons. lce makes a complete kit ill include a link
http://www.lceperformance.com/Stroke...-p/1010030.htm

scuba

2.7 is already a timing chain engine. No need to convert it.

Xyphus42

I know you can buy one but the darned thing costs waaaaay too much. Trying to find a fairly simple and inexpensive way to do this.

Other options might include a super thick head gasket and dish pistons.

blake.nemitz

that wont give you any more displacement just less compression

blake.nemitz

will the 3rz crank even fit a 22re?

Xyphus42

Well all the math works for fitting the crank in there (3rz in a 22r) the journals all match up and the clearances are the same

I just had a true epiphany... the 3RZ rods have a 24mm pin and the 22r's have a 22 mm pin so I was thinking about the caged needle bearings like in a motorcycle to make up that difference. i found some from wiseco that have the 22 mm inside but the OD is 27 mm. and the width is 24 mm

so the real question is the 3RZ rods... what is their ID with out the bearing? (small end) is there an oil passage for the bushing? and finally what is the width of the rod on the small end? I cant find the width dimensions but I know that the ID can be bored out just the little bit.

Sleepr71

Sounds like the 3rz crank in a 22 block is doable w/ custom parts. I'm all for it,but have one small question....WHAT would we do about that pathetic 22R/RE head?? I mean..from what I've read the 22R/RE head has arguably the worst ports & airflow of any Toy. head ever made! Would you/can you port the 22 head to flow enough air to even justify adding stroke to an already air starved engine? I'd like to hear from some of our "expert" 22R/RE engine builders. Sleepr71.

Xyphus42

Yes you can port them out to accept 1mm oversized valves and throw in a good cam to make up the difference

The reason I'm thinking of doing this is because I want a fairly inexpensive way to get more torque without a full engine swap or going to a gas hog V6 or V8. So a poor man's stroker, mainly because I'm poor.

But here's a little tidbit I found

http://www.bgsoflex.com/displacement.html
Bowling's Engine Displacement Calculator

Input Parameters Are the Following:
Number of Cylinders are = 4 to 1
Piston Diameter = 92.000 Millimeters
Piston Oversize = 0.000 Millimeters
Engine Stroke = 95.000 Millimeters
Computation Results:

Computed Engine Displacement (CID) is 154
Computed Engine Displacement (Litres) is 2.5
Computed Engine Displacement (CC) is 2526.1


which means you get a nominal increase in displacement. But here's the real kicker....

longer strokes = more torque

just physics

the lengthened arm of the crank is like using a 3ft crowbar versus a 1 ft crowbar.





Now ok does anyone have the width on those 3RZ con. rods? Thats my last sticking point.

dark_fairytales

cheaper option, 7mge

Xyphus42

7mge?

Its not even in the same family.... But I will look. :o)

Xyphus42

7MGE wont do...

ran into an engine building friend and he brought up a good idea... have a machine shop build some custom bushings.

thing about those would be they would have to be 2 part... a steel outer later for strength and then the bronze inner layer for "squish"

he also said the roller idea was an ok one for the high RPM set but im trying to build a low rpm torquer so probably not such a good idea.

oh I also did the ratio and it seems really small.... ~1.54:1 but stock is only ~1.66:1 so I don't know...

oh one more thing... possible to use the "laser" block with a the 2 mm head gasket from www.22re.com

But I don't know if the top ring lands will be inside the block far enough for that. I think thats only for valve clearance issues.

Xyphus42

Well here's a little update I Found...

You can actually use the "laser" block but you have to get a super expensive head gasket. The one I found is from husseycopper....

http://www.husseycopper.com/HusseyPe...3%20-%2008.pdf

you need the .150 thick one because it will give you the extra 2mm in height plus the original HG thickness. to tune it back to stock compression you also have to get the deck milled about .005~ but thats fairly standard for a resurface.

I haven't called them yet for a direct price but another site was offering them at ~$150

so I would figure from hussey about the same just a little less.

this is looking like more and more of a possibility to me

oh and if you use the 22RE "laser" block you will need the chain from the early model block to make up the difference probably the 98 link version.

soon as I can get the money around I'm gonna start buying parts

dark_fairytales

i was meaning a strait motor swap

Xyphus42

Yeah I figured that after my post sorry...

Also did some more digging and this is kinda nifty...

need the 3RZ flywheel... 10 bolt instead of 6 but this is actually a good thing because the stock 3RZ flywheel and clutch is heavier by just a little bit. (couple pounds) It is also much beefier. Contact patch is 9 7/8" on 3RZ versus the 8 7/8" on the 22r So a big upgrade (through necessity) but still an upgrade over the 22r FW/Clutch.

Tomorrow I'm going to contact my local machine shop (non automotive) to see if I can get the connecting rod spacers made and how much they will be.... easier to have the tiny part machined and use stock 22r rod bushings....


speaking of I actually found the rod width on the 22r... well the bushing anyway...

Piston Pin Bushing
O.D.=0.9449" I.D.=0.8674" Length=1.102"

Xyphus42

the last post about the flywheel was for an off road application. But I think you could lighten it up quite a bit by using the 2RZ flywheel instead.

Has anyone thought of drilling a flywheel like they do for brakes? Thinking about the race application there. I don't know the balancing would be tough. But if done properly it would add a cooling effect to the clutch for less fade I would think.

Anyway just a thought...

Xyphus42

Ok.... looking for parts...

have block (on order from junk yard {machineable} '84 pickup YAY!), head and timing cover just need everything else

Xyphus42

oh yeah one more thing...

I can get the wrist pin bushings machined from a tool machinist kinda pricey but I think totally worth it. $100 per hour machine time and he has a bunch of different grades of bronze to choose from. I'm going to go with the hardest stuff he's got... so they don't oval out.

they'r gonna be 3 mm thick at the very least so the harder the better... also gonna have auto machine shop set the pistons for full float just as a precaution.

And I think those bushings are going to be the only truly "custom" part in this build... everything else is off the shelf

Xyphus42

Ordered crank and rods.... $200 junk yard

dark_fairytales

I am vary interested to see how this all goes together and works out.