Silver_Truck

After way too long of not working on it and too many delays (getting married, honeymoon, remodeling house etc.) I'm finally back at it, and have 27 days to have the truck road ready and on a shipping carrier bound for our new home in Puerto Rico Finally got a chance to get the truck into the shop it wasn't road worthy before needing new front shocks, brakes and steering so the time was right to cut it all off and start fresh. People always ask how much you can do an SAS for or how to save money doing it etc. so here's my edition of a simple, yet effective swap. (Revised) Plan is: 1980 axle trussed, and armored '91 rears up front mixed with 3 leafs from an '86 pack 14" bilstein 5150s all around New shock mounts in the rear FJ rotors with 91 IFS V6 calipers & IFS hubs for width 4.88s open for now Bobby Long Chromo hub gear and inners 35's Trail Gear Hy-steer and in addition to the SAS: Hot water shower w/ water tank Dual Batteries New in floor sub mount and hidden amp Bed organizer / sleeping platform In bed spare tire mount Tinted lexan windows in canopy w/ security screen inside Tinted & Security laminated cab windows LED lighting in & outside canopy Tune up w/new fluids everywhere and new timing belt Budget is out the window now with all the add ons, but the swap itself with 5 new wheels and tires is in at just under $1,700. HHere's progress so far: As picked up: Oven cleaner: stripped everything! Trussed and armoured: Steering stop braces: My stock 51" 91 rears (top), my donor pack a stock 86 48" set (bottom)

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__________________
-Geoff
*1991 Toyota Pickup Ext. Cab SR5 4x4 V6 5 spd K&N intake, port & polished heads with OS valves, port & polished intake manifold and plenum, NWOR headers and crossover, NWOR catback, Denso Iridium plugs, Redline Fluids, 4.88s, Rear LockRight, Aisin hubs, Chevy springs, BJ spacers, 2" RB body lift, 34x10.5 Swamper LTBs, WolphisWorks Sliders and bumpers, 400,000 mi.

Silver_Truck

My new front springs ...order of pack, top to bottom:
91 main
91 second
91 third
86 third
86 main
86 second

Ready for paint:

All primed up:

7 coats of hammered paint later:


As it rolled in the shop:

Time to start cutting:

__________________
-Geoff
*1991 Toyota Pickup Ext. Cab SR5 4x4 V6 5 spd K&N intake, port & polished heads with OS valves, port & polished intake manifold and plenum, NWOR headers and crossover, NWOR catback, Denso Iridium plugs, Redline Fluids, 4.88s, Rear LockRight, Aisin hubs, Chevy springs, BJ spacers, 2" RB body lift, 34x10.5 Swamper LTBs, WolphisWorks Sliders and bumpers, 400,000 mi.

91 4Runner

Looking good so far! Wish I was ready for a SAS! What are you using for springs?

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Mostly Stock 90 4Runner SR5 V6 Auto w/ 33" Durango MT's (bent lower valance removed), bush bar w/ 55w Baja Offroad Lights, Custom fit 1st. gen rollbar (used to mount Hi-Lift and fire extinguisher), extended diff breathers, (Comming soon rear spool and 2" body lift..)

My very slow buildup on Sontt.com - currently building.
http://www.sontt.com/forum/viewtopic...&t=109&start=0

whokrz

91 rears are about 51" long compared to the 48" rears.
You will need to move that front hanger forward or your shackle angle will be lay really far back, and will hit the frame during up travel.
My brother used the same springs with out moving the hanger forward and had to cut it off and move it.

I have 51" rears on mine here is pictures of my hanger.
The front of the hanger is 4.25" in front of the frame.
The center of the bolt hole in the hanger is 2" in front of the frame.




My shackle angle


The plates where for mocking it up, but they do have the weight of the truck on them. They are 5.5" eye to eye

Also it is a little harder to get lift out of these springs compared to the 48" rears, but they flex good.

The axle is hanging by my 14" shock.


If you have any questions feel free to ask.

Silver_Truck

91_4runner- I'm running my stock rears up front with 3 cut down 48" leaves mixed in for a 6 leaf pack, we'll see how it works I'm looking for about 3 inches of lift
Hey thanks for that, I've spent heaps of time on pirate without finding much good info on our springs, plan was to run the hanger 1" in front of the frame and move the shackles behind the body mount...What are you running for your pack?

__________________
-Geoff
*1991 Toyota Pickup Ext. Cab SR5 4x4 V6 5 spd K&N intake, port & polished heads with OS valves, port & polished intake manifold and plenum, NWOR headers and crossover, NWOR catback, Denso Iridium plugs, Redline Fluids, 4.88s, Rear LockRight, Aisin hubs, Chevy springs, BJ spacers, 2" RB body lift, 34x10.5 Swamper LTBs, WolphisWorks Sliders and bumpers, 400,000 mi.

4banginRunner

Must be nice working on your rig on a lift

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whokrz

If you are going to have the shackle tube threw the frame and behind the body mount just make sure that shackles will hang in the right place side to side. Your springs should be parrallel like l l not like \ / . If the inside plate is to far out you will have to have a bent shackle plate made.

The first lift that I had with these springs was about 2.5 inchs of lift. I was trying to keep it low so it would be harder to roll. In the picture it has 2" body lift and 2.5" suspension lift. I was really happy with how it turned out.

When I took it off road and flexed the front the drag link hit the frame hard enough to leave dents. This was caused because when the driver tire went down the passenger tire went up causing the knuckle to try and go above the frame this was limited by the drag link.


I could only think of three options to fix the problem.
1) Notch the frame making a U for the drag link, I did not like this idea because it is a daily driver and I was worried about stress cracks forming in the frame around the U.
2) Make the bump stops longer so it would hit the bump stops before the drag link hit the frame, but this would cause the truck to 1/2 inch of up travel before bottoming out on the bump stops and would be a ruff ride for daily driving.
3) Lift my truck so that I could have longer bump stops and have about 1.5 inches of up travel. This is the option that I went with and now the truck is taller than I wanted but still lower than most out there.

Here is my front leaf pack

1 & 2 = Top 2 leafs from 51" rears
3 & 4 = Cut leafs from 48" rears
5th = 3rd leaf from 4x2 S-10
6th = a leaf from the front of a 85 4runner.
The S10 leaf provides the arch for the pack.
The 6th leaf is almost flat and just supports the S10 leaf.
This spring pack along with a 1" drop hanger gave me 4" lift.

The next time I have the front end taken apart I will try and make a 8 leaf pack with toyota, waggoneer, broncoII leafs. I hope this will make a nicer pack that will give me more stability on road, still have the same off road flex, have more resistance to make the back springs work more, and have more than one leaf providing arch. The pack I have is not bad and works well but I do not like how the toyota leafs have alot less arch than the S10 leaf.

Hope this all helps

whokrz

any updates?

Silver_Truck

Alright back at it!

Here's the finished axle just awaiting the 3rd and final reassembly:




Some how in the 29 year history of this thing the original knuckle bearing shims had been lost, I bit the bullet and bought the knuckle centreing SST and it made life real easy!! Sorry no photos of it in use though, I used this for directions: http://forum.ih8mud.com/40-55-series...tions-faq.html

Motor mounts boxed:





Shackles getting pretty:

__________________
-Geoff
*1991 Toyota Pickup Ext. Cab SR5 4x4 V6 5 spd K&N intake, port & polished heads with OS valves, port & polished intake manifold and plenum, NWOR headers and crossover, NWOR catback, Denso Iridium plugs, Redline Fluids, 4.88s, Rear LockRight, Aisin hubs, Chevy springs, BJ spacers, 2" RB body lift, 34x10.5 Swamper LTBs, WolphisWorks Sliders and bumpers, 400,000 mi.

waskillywabbit

I hope you welded that truss SLOW and I would have left the diff in there...if you didn't you warped that axle.

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WabFab Off-Road, LLC

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7th Annual South East 4Runner Jamboree, 2010

The toughest part of a Jeep is the chick driving it.

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85toy

seems like he does good work and has researched what he is doing, im sure he knows whats up.

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1984 toyota pickup extended cab 4x4

couple of mods

Silver_Truck

yep, I made sure to be careful the truss was welded with a series of small stitches over a couple hours, alternating top and bottom, diff was in while it was all being welded and then pulled for paint and regearing!! I was real careful as to not warp it but I guess I'll find out soon enough...off to go drill the holes for the frame tubes and somehow get new bushings into my springs now

__________________
-Geoff
*1991 Toyota Pickup Ext. Cab SR5 4x4 V6 5 spd K&N intake, port & polished heads with OS valves, port & polished intake manifold and plenum, NWOR headers and crossover, NWOR catback, Denso Iridium plugs, Redline Fluids, 4.88s, Rear LockRight, Aisin hubs, Chevy springs, BJ spacers, 2" RB body lift, 34x10.5 Swamper LTBs, WolphisWorks Sliders and bumpers, 400,000 mi.

85toy

i knew it

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1984 toyota pickup extended cab 4x4

couple of mods

waskillywabbit

Pictures didn't show the diff in there so that is the only reason I said anything...seen folks warp the crap out of them not being patient and taking out the diff.

__________________
WabFab Off-Road, LLC

MySpace
Twitter
Facebook



7th Annual South East 4Runner Jamboree, 2010

The toughest part of a Jeep is the chick driving it.

WabFab Off-Road 4th Anniversary Sale

Silver_Truck

Last night's progress, got the shackle tubes and front hanger all mocked in!




Going to put the axle under and drop her down onto some jackstands to check the shackle angle tonight, and try to get the rear shocks set up.

Picked up some free scrap diamond plate today to make a switch panel for the canopy to control all my aux. camping lights. And ordered my Painless dual battery wiring harness and 6 24" LED light strips, and 4 12" to provide lighting for inside the canopy and around the outside of the truck while camping.

__________________
-Geoff
*1991 Toyota Pickup Ext. Cab SR5 4x4 V6 5 spd K&N intake, port & polished heads with OS valves, port & polished intake manifold and plenum, NWOR headers and crossover, NWOR catback, Denso Iridium plugs, Redline Fluids, 4.88s, Rear LockRight, Aisin hubs, Chevy springs, BJ spacers, 2" RB body lift, 34x10.5 Swamper LTBs, WolphisWorks Sliders and bumpers, 400,000 mi.

whokrz

Looking good.
If you get the 3 inches of lift out of your pack you will want to clamp the lowest leaf, they have a tendency of fanning out.
I ended up using one of the leafs off of the front of a 85 toyota pack that had a clamp. The leafs are thin and flat. I had to bend the spring up to clamp it, which lowered my truck 1/4 of a inch and made the front more stable on the road. I do not know how much it will affect flex, but I don't think it will hurt much.

__________________
1990 4runner, 22re, R151, 4.7, 5.29s, E-locker front, Lock-Rite rear, 37" MTRs, 51" rears all around
Trail Reviews http://www.gentryoffroad.com
Toyota Factory Service Manuals http://ncttora.com/fsm/index.html

Silver_Truck

SOB!!! Went to bolt the axle up and realized that TG sent me u bolts for a later model axle with the factory gussets so I've got 2 square ones, now to try and find a pair locally so I don't have to wait on shipping

__________________
-Geoff
*1991 Toyota Pickup Ext. Cab SR5 4x4 V6 5 spd K&N intake, port & polished heads with OS valves, port & polished intake manifold and plenum, NWOR headers and crossover, NWOR catback, Denso Iridium plugs, Redline Fluids, 4.88s, Rear LockRight, Aisin hubs, Chevy springs, BJ spacers, 2" RB body lift, 34x10.5 Swamper LTBs, WolphisWorks Sliders and bumpers, 400,000 mi.

Silver_Truck

Woo hoo, got my first look at roughly its final stance tonight and its looking good...a bit tall though 3" up on my rear though hopefully that will change when actually sitting on wheels and tires. Not sure on the shackle angle though, hopefully you guys can throw in some input! The angles are off a bit and I double and triple checked my measurements and the tubes and hangers are all within about 1/16th on an inch of each other.

That and the axle is awfully far forward, I think I'll have to drill my perches back an 1" to try and help.







And onto the underside and rear...forgot to get a pic of the new rear shock mounts though, oh well tomorrow!



(Yes thats the iphone level, haha only good thing I've found about that damn phone so far!!!)


Now I've just got to wait on getting my 3rd back from Crash, and picking up my new tires on Friday, a set of 5 new BFG muds on rockcrawlers

Tomorrow will bring drilling of the perches, drilling the hub bolt pattern into my rotors and starting to mount and fab up switch plates in the canopy for my new lighting!

__________________
-Geoff
*1991 Toyota Pickup Ext. Cab SR5 4x4 V6 5 spd K&N intake, port & polished heads with OS valves, port & polished intake manifold and plenum, NWOR headers and crossover, NWOR catback, Denso Iridium plugs, Redline Fluids, 4.88s, Rear LockRight, Aisin hubs, Chevy springs, BJ spacers, 2" RB body lift, 34x10.5 Swamper LTBs, WolphisWorks Sliders and bumpers, 400,000 mi.

Silver_Truck

anyone have any ideas on my shackle angles, too far back or ok?

__________________
-Geoff
*1991 Toyota Pickup Ext. Cab SR5 4x4 V6 5 spd K&N intake, port & polished heads with OS valves, port & polished intake manifold and plenum, NWOR headers and crossover, NWOR catback, Denso Iridium plugs, Redline Fluids, 4.88s, Rear LockRight, Aisin hubs, Chevy springs, BJ spacers, 2" RB body lift, 34x10.5 Swamper LTBs, WolphisWorks Sliders and bumpers, 400,000 mi.

whokrz

In order to make sure that your shackle angle is equal the truck needs to sit level side to side.
When I did it I leveled the front first by putting thin pieces of wood under the low tire until that axle was level. Then I repeated the process in the rear. My driveway looked level side to side but it was actually a ways off. Once I got the axles level my shackle angle was the same.
When the truck is level the shackle angles should be the same, but there is not really an exact angle that the shackle should be. When they are closer to straight up and down say 22deg it tends to stiffen the ride. When they are around 45deg the ride gets softer. If they lay back to far the spring will hit the frame under compression. Mine sit at about 45deg which gave the front a nice soft ride and never hits the frame..

Because you are still tacked I would take extra time and make sure that your suspension is square. Your springs should be parallel to each other and to your frame. The shackle tubes and spring hanger should be square to the springs. You can check square by using 3,4,5 here is an example http://mikelindstrom.wordpress.com/2...4-5-triangles/ Once you weld it all up it is a pain to try and move.

Personally I would leave your axle moved forward, it will give you a better approach angle. If you want you axle moved closer to the cab I would run the 48" rears and have your hanger flush with the frame which would also give you a good approach angle. I have read that if you move up to 37" tires with the 48" springs you will need to trim/beat the fire wall. With the 51" springs I stuff a 37" tire with room to spare.


Here is how it looks with the axle forward on bigger tires and 51" springs.


Sorry i didn't reply earlier work and sleep kept getting in the way

__________________
1990 4runner, 22re, R151, 4.7, 5.29s, E-locker front, Lock-Rite rear, 37" MTRs, 51" rears all around
Trail Reviews http://www.gentryoffroad.com
Toyota Factory Service Manuals http://ncttora.com/fsm/index.html

Silver_Truck

Alright put a level across the frame and got the truck all squared up (thankfully our shop is level and square!) and shackle angles are still off by the same amount...checked and double checked my measurements and locations and squareness and really can't see how it could be improved on.

__________________
-Geoff
*1991 Toyota Pickup Ext. Cab SR5 4x4 V6 5 spd K&N intake, port & polished heads with OS valves, port & polished intake manifold and plenum, NWOR headers and crossover, NWOR catback, Denso Iridium plugs, Redline Fluids, 4.88s, Rear LockRight, Aisin hubs, Chevy springs, BJ spacers, 2" RB body lift, 34x10.5 Swamper LTBs, WolphisWorks Sliders and bumpers, 400,000 mi.

Silver_Truck

Some new goodies, picked em up yesterday but we lost our internet with the little storm we had last night (thanks Comcast )




5 35x12.5 BFG MTs on nice shiny new rock crawlers!


Front 4.88's, thanks Mike!!


LC brake rotors drilled to IFS hub pattern


Driveshaft carrier bearing dropped 1" for better angles


New LSPV bracket

Also started a new thread for the rest of the build up to keep things simple: http://www.yotatech.com/f191/silver_...thread-196707/

__________________
-Geoff
*1991 Toyota Pickup Ext. Cab SR5 4x4 V6 5 spd K&N intake, port & polished heads with OS valves, port & polished intake manifold and plenum, NWOR headers and crossover, NWOR catback, Denso Iridium plugs, Redline Fluids, 4.88s, Rear LockRight, Aisin hubs, Chevy springs, BJ spacers, 2" RB body lift, 34x10.5 Swamper LTBs, WolphisWorks Sliders and bumpers, 400,000 mi.

whokrz

From the pictures the tubes and hanger looks correct. My guess would be that the front axle is not level, which is making the shackle angle different.
Put the wheels on the front axle and level the ground that the wheels sit on. Your frame can be level and your axle not level, which can make your shackle angle different.
Like in this picture it looks like the driver side is higher, causing the spring to be flater, causing the shackle to lay farther back than the other one.

__________________
1990 4runner, 22re, R151, 4.7, 5.29s, E-locker front, Lock-Rite rear, 37" MTRs, 51" rears all around
Trail Reviews http://www.gentryoffroad.com
Toyota Factory Service Manuals http://ncttora.com/fsm/index.html

murdarunna19

lookin good man im excited to see this one come along

-matt

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Matt D

2000 4runner. supercharged, flowmaster, 3" toytec lift, sitting on BFG 33's.

2009 fj, arb bumper, warn winch, bfg ats, 2" lift, IPFs.

4runner Build - http://www.yotatech.com/f191/murdaru...thread-190270/

Silver_Truck

Alright a bit more progress coming along, ran into a bit of a problem with the lift the phase converter puked out so truck is stuck up in the air until we can get this fixed...well at least I decide I have the patience to crank it down by hand with a ratchet, probably tomorrow then I'll get the axle level and see how it sits. Did some work on the interior and got the axle done and wheels...


Ran into a bit of a problem with a broken bolt on one of the hubs


Yay!



got some work done in the other build up thread too!

__________________
-Geoff
*1991 Toyota Pickup Ext. Cab SR5 4x4 V6 5 spd K&N intake, port & polished heads with OS valves, port & polished intake manifold and plenum, NWOR headers and crossover, NWOR catback, Denso Iridium plugs, Redline Fluids, 4.88s, Rear LockRight, Aisin hubs, Chevy springs, BJ spacers, 2" RB body lift, 34x10.5 Swamper LTBs, WolphisWorks Sliders and bumpers, 400,000 mi.