2WD vs. 4WD SAS please help!
08-14-2013, 07:40 PM
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2WD vs. 4WD SAS please help!
Hey guys, I'm new to posting here but I read at least 10 threads a day and I'm determined to do an SAS but I want to know, what should I use, 2WD or 4dig base rig? I want a fun, fairly easy project that will make people's jaw drop in town and out-wheel everyone. And also, what will I need? (IFS eliminator kit, axle, matching rear lift, tires, wheels, 5:29's) I'm 16 years old and a killer welder (not to toot my own horn) anything helps!!
08-14-2013, 07:55 PM
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I would say start with a 4x4 since it will already have a 4wd transmission and transfer case. But that depends how big your building it. Also some 2wds are 5 lug so you would have to get a matching 6 lug rear axle, also depends how big you want to go.
08-14-2013, 08:05 PM
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I'm wanting to get the 5" kit because that comes out to 6 inches of total lift if I'm correct
08-14-2013, 08:13 PM
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If you havent bought the truck yet i would definitely recomend spending a couple $$$ more and buy yourself a 4x4. If you get yourself an 85 or earlier itd be a heck of alot easier for ya since it already has the axle.
If you cant well then i'd say find yourself a toyota axle off the classifieds section, craigslist and buy that. I'll tell ya from experience it wont be easy to find one. i had to buy mine from another state lol.
Keep in mind if you decide to go with a 2wd its like Jason said above, it wont have the transfercase. So if you do go this route make sure to get the transfercase, driveshaft, and axle if it has one. If you dont wanna have such a hard time finding yourself a toyota axle id recomend going DANA 44's front and rear. tey are easier to find and boy does it make your truck look hella beefy. My neighbors son runs that set up and he can handle a lot more then my truck due to his wider wheel base. if you do go with dana 44's you will need to get a wider front spring hanger. (skys offroad design is one that sells it) but like i said it will be much cheaper for you in the long run to buy one thats already 4x4. keep that in mind.
Also keep in mind you're gonna need a shop to install those gears and lockers for you(unless you know how) that alone came out to an unexpected fee of $900 for me. That includes the labor, crush sleeve, and the master install kit for each 3rd member.
SAS kit will be about 1200 plus matching rear leafs will be about 500. gears will run about 250 each R&P set. and if you go spartan locker thatd be about 400. unless you go with something much much better like Detroit or ARB in which you can add an extra 2-300 for each locker.
You're on the right track man. Just make it easy for yourself though and get a 4x4.
Also if i were you i would calculate EVERYTHING because i ended up spending a heck of a lot more then i had planned to spend on mine. this job can easily end up in you spending 2500 - 3000
BTW you didnt specify did you want a Pick up or a 4runner? im just assuming you meanr a pick up because 4runners didnt come in 2wd for 1st gen as far as i have seen.
and to answer your question. the lift will Vary. the springs will settle over time and you will loose some lift.
If you cant well then i'd say find yourself a toyota axle off the classifieds section, craigslist and buy that. I'll tell ya from experience it wont be easy to find one. i had to buy mine from another state lol.
Keep in mind if you decide to go with a 2wd its like Jason said above, it wont have the transfercase. So if you do go this route make sure to get the transfercase, driveshaft, and axle if it has one. If you dont wanna have such a hard time finding yourself a toyota axle id recomend going DANA 44's front and rear. tey are easier to find and boy does it make your truck look hella beefy. My neighbors son runs that set up and he can handle a lot more then my truck due to his wider wheel base. if you do go with dana 44's you will need to get a wider front spring hanger. (skys offroad design is one that sells it) but like i said it will be much cheaper for you in the long run to buy one thats already 4x4. keep that in mind.
Also keep in mind you're gonna need a shop to install those gears and lockers for you(unless you know how) that alone came out to an unexpected fee of $900 for me. That includes the labor, crush sleeve, and the master install kit for each 3rd member.
SAS kit will be about 1200 plus matching rear leafs will be about 500. gears will run about 250 each R&P set. and if you go spartan locker thatd be about 400. unless you go with something much much better like Detroit or ARB in which you can add an extra 2-300 for each locker.
You're on the right track man. Just make it easy for yourself though and get a 4x4.
Also if i were you i would calculate EVERYTHING because i ended up spending a heck of a lot more then i had planned to spend on mine. this job can easily end up in you spending 2500 - 3000
BTW you didnt specify did you want a Pick up or a 4runner? im just assuming you meanr a pick up because 4runners didnt come in 2wd for 1st gen as far as i have seen.
and to answer your question. the lift will Vary. the springs will settle over time and you will loose some lift.
Last edited by Redeth005; 08-14-2013 at 08:15 PM.
08-14-2013, 08:19 PM
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If you havent bought the truck yet i would definitely recomend spending a couple $$$ more and buy yourself a 4x4. If you get yourself an 85 or earlier itd be a heck of alot easier for ya since it already has the axle.
If you cant well then i'd say find yourself a toyota axle off the classifieds section, craigslist and buy that. I'll tell ya from experience it wont be easy to find one. i had to buy mine from another state lol.
Keep in mind if you decide to go with a 2wd its like Jason said above, it wont have the transfercase. So if you do go this route make sure to get the transfercase, driveshaft, and axle if it has one. If you dont wanna have such a hard time finding yourself a toyota axle id recomend going DANA 44's front and rear. tey are easier to find and boy does it make your truck look hella beefy. My neighbors son runs that set up and he can handle a lot more then my truck due to his wider wheel base. if you do go with dana 44's you will need to get a wider front spring hanger. (skys offroad design is one that sells it) but like i said it will be much cheaper for you in the long run to buy one thats already 4x4. keep that in mind.
Also keep in mind you're gonna need a shop to install those gears and lockers for you(unless you know how) that alone came out to an unexpected fee of $900 for me. That includes the labor, crush sleeve, and the master install kit for each 3rd member.
SAS kit will be about 1200 plus matching rear leafs will be about 500. gears will run about 250 each R&P set. and if you go spartan locker thatd be about 400. unless you go with something much much better like Detroit or ARB in which you can add an extra 2-300 for each locker.
You're on the right track man. Just make it easy for yourself though and get a 4x4.
Also if i were you i would calculate EVERYTHING because i ended up spending a heck of a lot more then i had planned to spend on mine. this job can easily end up in you spending 2500 - 3000
BTW you didnt specify did you want a Pick up or a 4runner? im just assuming you meanr a pick up because 4runners didnt come in 2wd for 1st gen as far as i have seen.
and to answer your question. the lift will Vary. the springs will settle over time and you will loose some lift.
If you cant well then i'd say find yourself a toyota axle off the classifieds section, craigslist and buy that. I'll tell ya from experience it wont be easy to find one. i had to buy mine from another state lol.
Keep in mind if you decide to go with a 2wd its like Jason said above, it wont have the transfercase. So if you do go this route make sure to get the transfercase, driveshaft, and axle if it has one. If you dont wanna have such a hard time finding yourself a toyota axle id recomend going DANA 44's front and rear. tey are easier to find and boy does it make your truck look hella beefy. My neighbors son runs that set up and he can handle a lot more then my truck due to his wider wheel base. if you do go with dana 44's you will need to get a wider front spring hanger. (skys offroad design is one that sells it) but like i said it will be much cheaper for you in the long run to buy one thats already 4x4. keep that in mind.
Also keep in mind you're gonna need a shop to install those gears and lockers for you(unless you know how) that alone came out to an unexpected fee of $900 for me. That includes the labor, crush sleeve, and the master install kit for each 3rd member.
SAS kit will be about 1200 plus matching rear leafs will be about 500. gears will run about 250 each R&P set. and if you go spartan locker thatd be about 400. unless you go with something much much better like Detroit or ARB in which you can add an extra 2-300 for each locker.
You're on the right track man. Just make it easy for yourself though and get a 4x4.
Also if i were you i would calculate EVERYTHING because i ended up spending a heck of a lot more then i had planned to spend on mine. this job can easily end up in you spending 2500 - 3000
BTW you didnt specify did you want a Pick up or a 4runner? im just assuming you meanr a pick up because 4runners didnt come in 2wd for 1st gen as far as i have seen.
and to answer your question. the lift will Vary. the springs will settle over time and you will loose some lift.
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08-14-2013, 08:20 PM
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08-14-2013, 08:33 PM
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I will add since your 16 is to get a 4wd truck and drive and wheel it a few years before investing a solid axle swap in it. A SAS isn't cheap, spend the money your parents can give you on a good truck and later on add to it. It would be really bad to put all that money into a truck and you don't like it or something. You will not get your money back out of it selling it, around where I live all the sas trucks don't even look safe to drive down my driveway because people are cheap and don't use the correct parts, they also stay on craigslist for months. Just my advice, get the best truck you can afford and worry about mods later.
08-14-2013, 08:45 PM
#10
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You're welcome.
I agree with Jason on that. Exactly the reason I say get an 85 or earlier those already have the axle straight from factory. And it'll definitely be safer. Unless you know people with SFA / SAS'd rigs and have known from the very start that you'd be going offroading with those people then I totally understand. Because that's the situation I was in.
But like He said it is really expensive. And can get even more expensive with an SAS. I bought my 4Runner for $1400. And with all the receipts I've from truck expenses I'm up to about $12,600 right now. Spend the Parents money wisely. Sometimes I wish I would have just waited it out and bought an 85. But its done already. I don't regret it. But it is a couple thousand I could have spent elsewhere on the truck you know.
If you need any info on how to do the
sas. I took a whole crap load of pictures and write up descriptions for a lot of them in my thread. Think that album has over 300 pix of the full axle restoration and all of the process of the install. Itll definitely be a somehing good to read through aince youre already reading 10 threads per day. good. And good bookmark.
I agree with Jason on that. Exactly the reason I say get an 85 or earlier those already have the axle straight from factory. And it'll definitely be safer. Unless you know people with SFA / SAS'd rigs and have known from the very start that you'd be going offroading with those people then I totally understand. Because that's the situation I was in.
But like He said it is really expensive. And can get even more expensive with an SAS. I bought my 4Runner for $1400. And with all the receipts I've from truck expenses I'm up to about $12,600 right now. Spend the Parents money wisely. Sometimes I wish I would have just waited it out and bought an 85. But its done already. I don't regret it. But it is a couple thousand I could have spent elsewhere on the truck you know.
If you need any info on how to do the
sas. I took a whole crap load of pictures and write up descriptions for a lot of them in my thread. Think that album has over 300 pix of the full axle restoration and all of the process of the install. Itll definitely be a somehing good to read through aince youre already reading 10 threads per day. good. And good bookmark.
Last edited by Redeth005; 08-14-2013 at 08:50 PM.
08-14-2013, 09:06 PM
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I kinda want to just step by step it for awhile, you know? Buy a piece of crap rig, restore it, maybe swap a motor or rebuild it, just keep going on it for awhile... I'm getting decent income from my summer job and I'm selling $100-250 loads of firewood throughout the week and all that money is going into the bank waiting for the swap. I've been wanting to do it since I helped my brother do his when I was 13. But thanks again for the advice
08-14-2013, 09:09 PM
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I will add since your 16 is to get a 4wd truck and drive and wheel it a few years before investing a solid axle swap in it. A SAS isn't cheap, spend the money your parents can give you on a good truck and later on add to it. It would be really bad to put all that money into a truck and you don't like it or something. You will not get your money back out of it selling it, around where I live all the sas trucks don't even look safe to drive down my driveway because people are cheap and don't use the correct parts, they also stay on craigslist for months. Just my advice, get the best truck you can afford and worry about mods later.
08-23-2013, 05:30 PM
#13
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Go get a Trekker!
No SAS required and every Toyota enthusiast will drool over a nicely restored one.
Welcome!
No SAS required and every Toyota enthusiast will drool over a nicely restored one.
Welcome!
Last edited by Red Wagon; 08-23-2013 at 05:32 PM.
08-29-2013, 02:17 PM
#14
Red, that is just beautiful!!
Wood, these guys are throwing out some excellent suggestions. a proper build ain't cheap and a cheap build ain't proper. if you are driving onroad, there are others' lives to keep consideration of.
it took me several years to collect most of the parts i needed: '85 front axle, elockers, tires/rims, gears for elockers, longfileds, armor...it adds up fast and as mentioned you won't get any of it back and in some cases the value of a perfect stocker drops in resale value.
if i calculated all my receipts as well, i'd sure i'm not far from Redeth's amounts.
$450 for each elocker and $750 each for 5.29Nitros and setup. $650 for longfileds....depending on what direction you take, it gets BOAT style pricy.
i would definitely go with a 4wheel drive model and as stock as you can find if you plan to build. other option is to find someone's well built headache/money pit and wheel that.
i will end with this though, make sure you really want to swap out the ifs...you mentioned you were not sure about 4x or 2x so maybe a SAS is not needed for what you will be wheeling. you will come out way ahead $wise if you keep the ifs and get a rancho/procomp/tuffcountry etc lift. even a downey kit will save you over an sas(if you can find) or i am reading people are happy with the badlands kit.
just make certain you know what you want, and tailor the build to that level of capability.
also remember, it's not over with suspension: armor, cb, tunes, engine/exhaust/intake, lighting, jeep rescue gear, spares, air(tire fill/tools).....there are many many rigs $40k on an $1900 truck.
just my too sense, and best of luck to the project.
Wood, these guys are throwing out some excellent suggestions. a proper build ain't cheap and a cheap build ain't proper. if you are driving onroad, there are others' lives to keep consideration of.
it took me several years to collect most of the parts i needed: '85 front axle, elockers, tires/rims, gears for elockers, longfileds, armor...it adds up fast and as mentioned you won't get any of it back and in some cases the value of a perfect stocker drops in resale value.
if i calculated all my receipts as well, i'd sure i'm not far from Redeth's amounts.
$450 for each elocker and $750 each for 5.29Nitros and setup. $650 for longfileds....depending on what direction you take, it gets BOAT style pricy.
i would definitely go with a 4wheel drive model and as stock as you can find if you plan to build. other option is to find someone's well built headache/money pit and wheel that.
i will end with this though, make sure you really want to swap out the ifs...you mentioned you were not sure about 4x or 2x so maybe a SAS is not needed for what you will be wheeling. you will come out way ahead $wise if you keep the ifs and get a rancho/procomp/tuffcountry etc lift. even a downey kit will save you over an sas(if you can find) or i am reading people are happy with the badlands kit.
just make certain you know what you want, and tailor the build to that level of capability.
also remember, it's not over with suspension: armor, cb, tunes, engine/exhaust/intake, lighting, jeep rescue gear, spares, air(tire fill/tools).....there are many many rigs $40k on an $1900 truck.
just my too sense, and best of luck to the project.
08-29-2013, 04:50 PM
#16
Here's a little info.
The 2wd frame is much better for SASing. You have more clearance since they are designed off a SA frame. High steer has much more room. All IFS eliminator kits work with 2wd frames.
As stated above you must obtain a Transfercase, transmission, IFS steering box, and both Axles. You must also fabricate a crossmember for the transmission. You may also note that 84-95 toyota truck cabs are interchangeable as long as you are using a corresponding frame. ( short wheel base, long wheel base, extended cab, ext ) but 2nd and 3rd gens are interchangeable.
I'm currently building a SASed rig using a 2wd frame.
Good luck to you and have fun with your build. Looking forward to seeing pics.
The 2wd frame is much better for SASing. You have more clearance since they are designed off a SA frame. High steer has much more room. All IFS eliminator kits work with 2wd frames.
As stated above you must obtain a Transfercase, transmission, IFS steering box, and both Axles. You must also fabricate a crossmember for the transmission. You may also note that 84-95 toyota truck cabs are interchangeable as long as you are using a corresponding frame. ( short wheel base, long wheel base, extended cab, ext ) but 2nd and 3rd gens are interchangeable.
I'm currently building a SASed rig using a 2wd frame.
Good luck to you and have fun with your build. Looking forward to seeing pics.
08-29-2013, 04:53 PM
#17
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I'm going to repost what you said in this thread. Hope you don't mind.
https://www.yotatech.com/forums/f116...stions-272386/
I had questions about the frames.
I have to ditch my parts 4Runner but when I settle into my new place I want another.
This time I'm after doing the perfect SAS'd 4Runner. Well, as close to perfect as I can make it. I've learnt loads from what I have now and to change it all would be more time than it's worth. Better to start fresh from stock and get it done right.
I have a set of FJ62 axles for this swap. Unless I find some FJ80 axles for a good price I'll be using them on my next build.
https://www.yotatech.com/forums/f116...stions-272386/
I had questions about the frames.
I have to ditch my parts 4Runner but when I settle into my new place I want another.
This time I'm after doing the perfect SAS'd 4Runner. Well, as close to perfect as I can make it. I've learnt loads from what I have now and to change it all would be more time than it's worth. Better to start fresh from stock and get it done right.
I have a set of FJ62 axles for this swap. Unless I find some FJ80 axles for a good price I'll be using them on my next build.
Last edited by Red Wagon; 08-29-2013 at 04:58 PM.
10-26-2013, 05:06 PM
#18
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Here's a little info.
The 2wd frame is much better for SASing. You have more clearance since they are designed off a SA frame. High steer has much more room. All IFS eliminator kits work with 2wd frames.
As stated above you must obtain a Transfercase, transmission, IFS steering box, and both Axles. You must also fabricate a crossmember for the transmission. You may also note that 84-95 toyota truck cabs are interchangeable as long as you are using a corresponding frame. ( short wheel base, long wheel base, extended cab, ext ) but 2nd and 3rd gens are interchangeable.
I'm currently building a SASed rig using a 2wd frame.
Good luck to you and have fun with your build. Looking forward to seeing pics.
The 2wd frame is much better for SASing. You have more clearance since they are designed off a SA frame. High steer has much more room. All IFS eliminator kits work with 2wd frames.
As stated above you must obtain a Transfercase, transmission, IFS steering box, and both Axles. You must also fabricate a crossmember for the transmission. You may also note that 84-95 toyota truck cabs are interchangeable as long as you are using a corresponding frame. ( short wheel base, long wheel base, extended cab, ext ) but 2nd and 3rd gens are interchangeable.
I'm currently building a SASed rig using a 2wd frame.
Good luck to you and have fun with your build. Looking forward to seeing pics.
What about a 79-83 2wd frame SAS? As easy as an ifs to sas?
10-26-2013, 05:43 PM
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Here is a link to a build I stumbled across, it has some good info on a 2wd sas
http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/toyot...e-2wd-sas.html
http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/toyot...e-2wd-sas.html
