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What should I ask for my 2nd Gen?

Old 01-10-2017, 07:53 AM
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What should I ask for my 2nd Gen?

The attached word doc is what I put together for my Craigslist Ad. I know I need pictures still. I am thinking of asking $4500 with all the extras, but I am blinded by love. Tell my if I am off my rocker, and where I should be on asking price. Thanks.
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4Runner Ad.docx (52.1 KB, 170 views)
Old 01-10-2017, 10:40 AM
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post pics in this thread.
so the rebuilt engine has 45k and probably should be redone because it wasn't done properly 45k ago?
honest ad and descriptive but I wouldn't pay 4500
Old 01-16-2017, 12:37 PM
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Here are some photos from this weekend. I did not even vacuum the interior, so the seats in particular could show a little better. The trunk carpet is acid stained from the previous owner, so that one won't come out.
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What should I ask for my 2nd Gen?-img_0943-copy.jpg   What should I ask for my 2nd Gen?-img_0945-copy.jpg   What should I ask for my 2nd Gen?-img_0960-copy.jpg  
Old 01-16-2017, 12:45 PM
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Thanks for the reply Dropzone. I see your point, but it is not like the needle immediately drops on a leakdown test. It just won't hold pressure for a long as the other cylinders. I think there is some room for things to be done right, but not getting ideal results, especially with molly rings. I also don't feel this engine will be ready for another rebuild for quite some time if the buyer is willing to pay any attention to the dipstick at all. But I see your point. Perhaps a little less description is appropriate to avoid confusion. I don't want buyers to expect a brand new engine, but it is not a clunker either.
Old 01-16-2017, 10:52 PM
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Originally Posted by FishOutOfWater
...
Perhaps a little less description is appropriate to avoid confusion. I don't want buyers to expect a brand new engine, but it is not a clunker either.
For sure go over that text again, it is a little repetitive and aimless. You want it clear and concise
Old 01-17-2017, 06:55 PM
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It sure looks like a $4500 rig but I can't seem to open up your attached file. I do see that you have some kind of issue though. I wouldn't think you would be doing a leak down test if you didn't suspect a compression issue and a little compression issue on a 45K mile engine scares me more than it would on an old original engine. With only the tiny bit of information I've gathered without reading your add, as a buyer, I personally, would be looking at your truck as a project rig. By that I mean, lots of good parts and upgrades in a good looking body but with an engine rebuild, replacement or upgrade in the near future.

Folks like me are all about buying one like that in the $1000 to $2500 range with plans of dropping $1500 into an engine upgrade but I would honestly rather pay $4500 for a clean machine with 225,000 on the original engine, provided that it ran fine and had good compression.

It may just be this old PC that I'm on causing me trouble opening your attachment but you may want to copy and paste your text into a post in case anyone else is having trouble viewing it.
Old 01-18-2017, 07:12 AM
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Text version of the document.

Text version of the document.

Originally Posted by FishOutOfWater
1993 Toyota 4Runner, 230K, $4500.

Manual transmission, rebuilt 3.0L, 3vze engine, new battery in 2016, Toyo Open County AT tires (265/75/16 on steel 16x8 Rock Assault rims) with good tread, and mostly new front suspension and steering components. White factory paint, with blue cloth interior. All synthetic fluids, changed as needed, with twice a year oil changes. K&N air filter with custom air intake tube. Front break pads (Hawk LTS) and new rotors (Brembo blanks) in good condition. Custom HID projector headlights. Good AC and heat. Good condition body and mechanically, with plenty of mild modifications and upgrades to create an extremely durable and reliable trail access vehicle geared toward offroad conditions. I am a conservative offroad driver, so this 4Runner has never been abused. Aside from a slightly dented rear drive shaft, I have never broken anything while offroading.

History:

Purchased in 2007 with about 185,000 miles with bad low engine knock and with a used engine for replacement. Replacement engine block completely disassembled, decked due to pitting, cleaned, and reconditioned with all new rings, bearings and seals. Replacement heads cleaned, checked and decked. Engine reassembled with new Toyota head gaskets, and all new upper gaskets. Custom 12mm ARP head studs installed to avoid questionable Toyota torque to yield headbolt design. No head gasket issues since reuild. Knock sensor and wire replaced during rebuild.

Only deficiencies in rebuild include a slightly incomplete ring seal on cylinder #3, requirement to deck the sealing surfaces on the heads and block, and a less than ideal rear main seal seating. Slight blowby on #3 requires use of quality and stable engine oils that minimize oil burnoff. After breaking in with conventional Valvoline, I used Mobile 1 Synthetic with reasonable results. This year I switched to Castrol Syntec Platinum Synthetic with better results in fuel economy. The Castrol left me with increased valve noise (last time I checked the lash was 2 years ago, and everything was just within spec, on the loose side), so I have been adding Lucas oil stabilizer to thicken things up a bit and quiet the valves with very good results. The truck has consistently used or lost about 1.5 qt of oil every 6 month oil change. The block was decked due to pitting at the sealing surface. Combined with decking the heads, the cylinder compression ratio has increased enough to require premium fuel. I set the timing advance between 12 and 14 degrees btdc, which is a mild advance over the factory spec of 10 degrees. People commonly advance these engines up to 18 degrees btdc for better throttle respons and increased low end power. At 17 degrees I start to hear pinging under load even with premium fuel, and above 14 degrees my NOx emissions start to climb higher than I like.

Factory shocks replaced immediately after rebuild with Bilstein HD shocks, for a significant improvement in on road ride quality. Also replaced sagging rear springs with stock height Moog HD coils. Front torsion bars replaced around 2012 with Sway-A-Way 25mm torsion bars. Along with the other suspension mods below this 4Runner rides quite stiff but handles very predictabely offroad, and feels very stable even over 90 mph descending I-70 just west of Denver, with almost no body roll. The suspension is stock height, but no one believes me at first glance. Upward articulation is limited by the thick torsion bars, so I set the front to sit relatively low (about stock height). This allows the suspension to sit just off bump stops while balancing on two wheels offroad. I have never felt this setup bottom out and there is plenty of downward articulation. I do have 70lbs of sand in back to add a little weight on the Moog HD coils, or the rear tends to bounce a bit more than I like.

The custom HID projector headlights are one of a kind. Fremont pass north of Leadville used to be scary at night with the stock headlights. The original headlight covers are fluted glass, so I had to grind the fluting off flat with diamond disks, and polish with serium oxide to make them crystal clear. I am pleased with the limited distortion from the modified glass and the projectors produce a nice straight cutoff. These headlights make for awesome visibility in any condition, and produce no glare for oncoming drivers.

Factory stereo replaced with Kenwood HD radio, CD, USB receiver around 2010 and fresh wiring run to factory rear speakers. New front JBL speakers installed in 2016.

Rear drive shaft cv’s and differentials replaced around 2012. Axle work done by a local axle specialty shop. 4.30 differentials replaced with Toyota factory 4.88 differentials. ARB air locker and compressor installed in 2013 in rear differential. Rear diff also got new Timken side bearings with ARB install.

Steering and suspension work in 2013 included new Toyota factory ball joints, 1.5” ball joint spacers, upper and lower poly control arm bushings with lots of grease and no squeaking, idler and pitman arms, new cv axles, new tie rods, etc.

What’s needed:

Rear axle seals starting to show slight leaks since late 2015 and should be replaced. Dash cracked in 2016 and aftermarket stereo works well but will need to be replace in a couple years. Very slight leak in windshield seal. I started pulling the factory trim already, but stopped after I decided to sell. I never got around to sliders, and the front bumper is a little off level. The paint is in fairly good shape for a 23 year old vehicle, but the small chips will start to show if you don’t wax twice a year. It is ready for a paint job, or some TLC with a rattle can.

Extra parts:

Factory alternator with new Toyota brushes, ready for testing and install.
Autozone pitman arm with brass bushing kit ready for assembly and install.
Spare heads in good condition from old 1993 engine ($500 value).
Spare rear axle with rear drum break. At one point I thought the right rear axle is a little bent at the flange, and this would have been the replacement.
Original 4.30 front and rear differentials ready to install ($550 value).

Conclusion:

This is my toy I purchased for hiking/backcountry ski trail access. I love it for what I used to use it for. But in the last year my family has grown and my company moved offices to the tech center, so I now commute on I-25. I am getting old, so the clutch is annoying in traffic, and the ride is a little stout for a daily commuter. The 3vze has good throttle response and will last a long time. The 93 also has no traction control, antilock brakes, side impact protection, child seat attachments, airbags, or any safety features other that seatbelts. With the oversized tires and powerful breaks, it can out break anything on dry pavement, but judicious break pedal on ice is recommended.

If you want a toy to work on that has all the basics covered already and/or a vehicle you won’t be afraid to abuse, this is the truck for you. This 2nd Gen 4Runner is priced just below most 3Rd Gen’s on Craigslist. But once you add in all the additional suspension upgrades, and fixes those practically stock trucks will require to do what this one already can with its ARB rear locker, you will need to add thousands on top of their price. This is truly a joy to drive, especially in snow and offroad.


Old 01-18-2017, 05:06 PM
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Let me try.

For sale: A nice and dependable 93 Toyota 4Runner SR5 4WD. 3.0L V6 with Manual Transmission 230,000 Miles.

I have owned this vehicle since 2007 and the last 45K miles have been under my care. I've treated her like a queen, using nothing but the best synthetic fluids and premium fuel. I have been very particular with the maintenance and care of the vehicle. You may say it's an obsession of mine. I've been all through the front end including the CV axles as well as the drivetrain front to back. I've done many popular upgrades including a locking rear differential and have regeared both differentials to increase torque which will allow for large tires if that's your thing. I'm not big into tearing up the hills or mud holes so I have left the suspension at near stock height and the tires at a reasonable size. (You are not obligated to tell them your off-roading preferences or what you have taken it through in the past.)

I love this old truck but am now commuting long distances to work and am a little tired of the clutch in traffic and I feel it's time for someone else to enjoy it as much as I have. See below for the upgrades and repairs I have performed thus far.

this (Not I have sand in the trunk. More like, it's set up ready to tow although I personally don't tow with it.)

that (Not the engine block needs surfaced. Do you really know that surfacing the block will solve the problem.)

this (Not that it has no ABS. Some folks find that to be a negative.)

that (Not that it pings with Mobile 1 in it. Hell, mine might ping with Pensoil in it but I'm not going to try it and then tell people it does. Just tell them what kind of oil gives the best performance. They will see your dedication in that you tried several different synthetics.)

this (Not the paint cracks show up after a year without waxing it. That's what pictures are for and it is a 24 year old truck. Take honest pictures and let them decide what looks good and what doesn't.)

etc. etc. etc.

Asking $4500. You really have to see it and drive it to truly appreciate it. You are welcome to come over, kick the tires, smell the oil, run tests, and ask anything you like. Even if you don't buy it, I'm glad to show it off.

Please call with any questions or to set up a test drive. Thanks,


I actually tried to be brief but you do have a lot of good things to say about your ride. I am all for telling someone about a potential problem with the truck but if you aren't sure that you have an issue then I wouldn't put all of that out there to folks that might be interested otherwise. You can say it uses a quart every 6 months without telling them that they have a faulty engine component unless you are absolutely sure that you do. If you are sure then you absolutely should go through it with them before they buy it. You can always tell them your gut feelings about it over the phone or in person but you need to get them to call first. You described your negatives about the vehicle the way I would describe mine to a bunch of Toyota junkies but not to the general public. I understand what you are talking about but if you told my boss, who is a GM gearhead, those things, he wouldn't want anything to do with your truck. I never leave out the ugly details before I finish a deal but I want to do it while they are checking out all the positives. If you spill the beans in your add, you may never get your chance to show them all it has to offer.

One more thing I would think about if I were you. Those components that you are giving away with the truck are worth close to $1000. You might consider selling those parts separately and then possibly lowering the price of your truck. That truck will go fast at $3500 and if you can get $500 for the rest of it, I'd call that a win.

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