In between a rock and a muddy place... - Page 6

stormin94 · 08-25-2007, 10:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AxleIke

Do you happen to know what the fine is for wheeling illegally out there is?

The point is that while some idiots will continue to wheel on the trails illegally, the rest of us will stay off, since we respect the law. So, even more trails will be shut down.

This is stupid. This thread was about helping to prevent illegal wheeling, now we are just discussing the merrits of illegal wheeling. Shut this trash down.

Easy there. I'm not condoning or justifying any sort of illegal activity. I'm just reacting to the post before mine. And if I recall right, AxleIke, you were the first one to mention the Moab closures, but thats besides the point. I'm just saying that shutting down more trails doesn't necessarily solve anything, since people who want to go 4x4 will have to go to other places, and the increased traffic on those trails will cause them to wear faster, and a hand full of people (who may or may not have otherwise done so) will continue to wheel on closed trails, or go and make their own. Thats a fact, people do that. I'm not condoning this at all if that's what you're getting at, and I'm not trying to justify this sort of behavior. If we work with tread lightly! our trails will stay open, and useable, so we can all enjoy access to our public lands. There is a handfull of people who will not chose to abide by these rules, and ruin it for the rest of us. I shouldn't have to explain everything I write, unless it's confusing, then I will. Don't trash my view there AxleIke. This thread is about what to do if there are pictures posted of Illegal activities. We can all work together to keep our trails open, so why flame me? Why don't you lay down some sort of constructive ideas on how to deal with pictures of illegal wheeling for all of us to consider?

AxleIke · 08-25-2007, 11:17 PM

I didn't ask for an explanation. Nor did i need one. You began bloviating and I took objection to it.

I already offered suggestions. The staff has a good idea of how to proceed.

Shutting down trails doesn't solve anything? Sure it does. It closes an area that was once open to OHV use. I don't know how they close things out in CA, but here it is done with cable, gate, cement, and deadfall. For us 4wheelers it sucks, but as posted in other threads, only a few of us care. And a great many hikers, bikers, equestrians, etc, are very happy.

The ONLY view that is acceptable to me is legal, on trail wheeling. ANY other alternatives are bull, so I will trash them. It sounds like you are on board with that. And now i don't have any more issue.

Call me a dick. I am, when it comes to this. This isn't my life, but it is a big part of it. I take trail closure extremely seriously.

Oh, and people who close trails are not stupid, they are quite smart. Why do you think they are so good at it?

stormin94 · 08-25-2007, 11:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AxleIke

Call me a dick. I am, when it comes to this. This isn't my life, but it is a big part of it. I take trail closure extremely seriously.

Oh, and people who close trails are not stupid, they are quite smart. Why do you think they are so good at it?

You're not a dick because you stated your opinion. I'm not trying to cause any problems, I'm just stating mine, you didn't ask for an explanation, but you got one, mostly because I wasn't online to defend my statements of my previous post, and three people went to write it off as stupid. I'm not angry about any of this, I'm actually glad that there are people paying attention to this thread. So what do you propose we should do to solve the issues of what to do with the illegal pictures?

**Lysmachia** · 08-25-2007, 11:30 PM

I think the proposal for illegal pictures has sorted itself out as far as I can tell. POST AN EXPLANATION. If you don't, the pic will likely get yanked. Even more importantly, get involved in Blue Ribbon Coalition or Stay The Trail or any other OHV advocate. They have been fighting for our rights for years... and they do it well!

AxleIke · 08-25-2007, 11:35 PM

My personal feelings on yanking pics are to yank any and all that even hint of legal issues.

However, I understand the issues people would have with that, and can think of any number of headaches it could cause.

I think the staff has come up with a reasonable way of doing things, and it shouldn't be that big of a deal.

stormin94 · 08-26-2007, 12:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lysmachia

I think the proposal for illegal pictures has sorted itself out as far as I can tell. POST AN EXPLANATION. If you don't, the pic will likely get yanked. Even more importantly, get involved in Blue Ribbon Coalition or Stay The Trail or any other OHV advocate. They have been fighting for our rights for years... and they do it well!

Thats a great idea, when can we start?

04 Rocko Taco · 08-27-2007, 04:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tacoclimber

I think Ike's right...perhaps this thread has reached the end of it's useful life.

Delete the obvious illegal pics, question the questionably illegal pics.
I think that's where we're at?

*TRain Whistle*

End of the line, everybody off!

tc · 08-27-2007, 08:13 AM

While the article is written about ATV's, we're all Off Highway Vehicles according to the USFS.

http://www.denverpost.com/commented/ci_6727627#28648

4biker · 08-27-2007, 08:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tacoclimber

I think Ike's right...perhaps this thread has reached the end of it's useful life.

Delete the obvious illegal pics, question the questionably illegal pics.
I think that's where we're at?

It sounds like everyone who's read the thread and has something to say has said it. How 'bout a shout from the mods to hear their position on this before it winds up (or ends in bloodshed)?

It's been a couple of days since one of you weighed in. Thanks

WATRD · 08-27-2007, 09:46 AM

Okay, I was away from the internet for a while, in the wilds of British Columbia, but I do tend to agree that this thread has run it's course.

Here's the current thinking:

We are going to rely heavily on the membership to report posts/threads/photos that they feel are illegal or portray wheeling/wheelers in a bad light. That might include obvious resource damage, wheeling in a known closed area, tearing down signs, obvious disregard for Tread Lightly, etc.

The hope is that by using the "Report Post" buttons, it will keep the staff from having to make too many unilateral decisions as well as allowing the membership to be somewhat self-regulating. Ultimately, the decisions to delete or not, rests on the shoulders of the staff. However, we can't spot everything on our passes through the forum and you might have knowledge of an area that we don't, so you might catch something we couldn't.

So, moving forward, please start using the "!" "Report Post" button to report illegal activity and questionable practices. We can see who reports what and may contact you for more information, if necessary, but we will not reveal that you were the one reporting something, outside of the staff.

Not everything that gets reported will get deleted and some things that don't get reported might get deleted, at the discretion of the staff. But, if multiple people report something, you had better believe it will get prompt attention. Don't leave it to someone else and don't assume that someone else will report it or has reported it. Just press the button to do your part for Tread Lightly and to help keep this forum as a positive influence.

Remember, we can see who is reporting what, so don't abuse the system. We have a couple of tools who seem to dislike each other and are reporting each others posts just out of spite. The staff does not find that humorous...

**Lysmachia** · 08-27-2007, 05:17 PM

Duly noted Rob, - I think we have a group consensus now...

dlbrunner · 08-28-2007, 05:22 PM

I didn't read the entire thread, but the "reporting" thing is a dangerous road to travel.

Land use in different areas of the country vary significantly, as to opinions on how that land should be used.

I feel very strongly about land use, as do others, to a similar level as religion and politics.

Tread lightly is a good policy to promote, but I think that is where the line should be drawn here. I belive this topic should be removed from the board, too many varying opinions and Laws are going to get thrown around and this will get messy. Promote "Tread Lightly" but encourage members and groups to visit their respective state websites to see what the local rules are.

Do a search for "Jarbidge shovel brigade" and you will see why land issues can get ugly. One of the few cases where the Federal Government backed down and the local residents got their road. I won't take a side here, but just point out the potential hornet's nest.

AxleIke · 08-28-2007, 05:27 PM

Its already been decided. Those issues have already been pointed out.

Woodstock45678 · 02-17-2008, 08:54 PM

Going back more towards the beginning: my problem with this is that it is a very slippery slope - IE: What constitutes 'mudding?' I haven't seen a formal definition. For example, yesterday I was out on a BLM dirt road, and the recent snow melt had made it quite muddy in some places. To get to where I was going and back involved driving through some deep soupy mud. By doing this I'm sure it wasn't pure TL action since my tires were spinning and kicking up mud everywhere (stock tires was the reason for the spinning), but I don't consider it 'mudding' either. My truck ended up covered in mud and dust just because of the nature of the road I was on. I didn't go out there with the intent to go mudding, I went to go shooting and happened to get dirty on the way. So, what one may deem 'mudding' another may not. So where is the line drawn?

BTW I'm not a huge fan of mud just because of the work involved in the cleanup process.
And, just for the record, I'm a supporter of TL/LNT - I just don't want so much policing happening that I cant even drive out to the scrub to go shooting and drive on dirt roads.

08-25-2007, 11:17 PM	#127 (permalink)
AxleIke Contributing Member Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Boulder, Colorado Posts: 4,535	I didn't ask for an explanation. Nor did i need one. You began bloviating and I took objection to it. I already offered suggestions. The staff has a good idea of how to proceed. Shutting down trails doesn't solve anything? Sure it does. It closes an area that was once open to OHV use. I don't know how they close things out in CA, but here it is done with cable, gate, cement, and deadfall. For us 4wheelers it sucks, but as posted in other threads, only a few of us care. And a great many hikers, bikers, equestrians, etc, are very happy. The ONLY view that is acceptable to me is legal, on trail wheeling. ANY other alternatives are bull, so I will trash them. It sounds like you are on board with that. And now i don't have any more issue. Call me a dick. I am, when it comes to this. This isn't my life, but it is a big part of it. I take trail closure extremely seriously. Oh, and people who close trails are not stupid, they are quite smart. Why do you think they are so good at it? __________________ IFS SAS My mods aren't bling enough for the signature line. -All Terrains are for when you know how to drive.

08-25-2007, 11:30 PM	#129 (permalink)
Lysmachia Super Moderator Staff Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Boulder, CO Posts: 3,603	I think the proposal for illegal pictures has sorted itself out as far as I can tell. POST AN EXPLANATION. If you don't, the pic will likely get yanked. Even more importantly, get involved in Blue Ribbon Coalition or Stay The Trail or any other OHV advocate. They have been fighting for our rights for years... and they do it well! __________________ Molly aka Lysmachia 93 4 Runner SAS - All Fixed in Junk Yard Goodness Get your 4x4 VIDEO pr0n here

08-25-2007, 11:35 PM	#130 (permalink)
AxleIke Contributing Member Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Boulder, Colorado Posts: 4,535	My personal feelings on yanking pics are to yank any and all that even hint of legal issues. However, I understand the issues people would have with that, and can think of any number of headaches it could cause. I think the staff has come up with a reasonable way of doing things, and it shouldn't be that big of a deal. __________________ IFS SAS My mods aren't bling enough for the signature line. -All Terrains are for when you know how to drive.

08-27-2007, 08:13 AM	#133 (permalink)
tc Contributing Member Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Longmont, CO Posts: 6,812	While the article is written about ATV's, we're all Off Highway Vehicles according to the USFS. http://www.denverpost.com/commented/ci_6727627#28648 __________________ Check out www.coTTORA.org to hook up with great Toyota 'wheelin' folks! Current - 93 4Runner: 3VZ 33"x10.50" no lift ARB F/R 96 Impala SS: My own personal cop car Previous - 89 2WD Pickup 22R, Fabtech "Ivan Dan" lift, 31x10.50, IASCA World Finals 4th Place Stop with the mods and get on the trail! Pix at www.4wheelingoh.shutterfly.com/action

08-27-2007, 09:46 AM	#135 (permalink)
WATRD Contributing Member Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Duvall, WA Posts: 5,125	Okay, I was away from the internet for a while, in the wilds of British Columbia, but I do tend to agree that this thread has run it's course. Here's the current thinking: We are going to rely heavily on the membership to report posts/threads/photos that they feel are illegal or portray wheeling/wheelers in a bad light. That might include obvious resource damage, wheeling in a known closed area, tearing down signs, obvious disregard for Tread Lightly, etc. The hope is that by using the "Report Post" buttons, it will keep the staff from having to make too many unilateral decisions as well as allowing the membership to be somewhat self-regulating. Ultimately, the decisions to delete or not, rests on the shoulders of the staff. However, we can't spot everything on our passes through the forum and you might have knowledge of an area that we don't, so you might catch something we couldn't. So, moving forward, please start using the "!" "Report Post" button to report illegal activity and questionable practices. We can see who reports what and may contact you for more information, if necessary, but we will not reveal that you were the one reporting something, outside of the staff. Not everything that gets reported will get deleted and some things that don't get reported might get deleted, at the discretion of the staff. But, if multiple people report something, you had better believe it will get prompt attention. Don't leave it to someone else and don't assume that someone else will report it or has reported it. Just press the button to do your part for Tread Lightly and to help keep this forum as a positive influence. Remember, we can see who is reporting what, so don't abuse the system. We have a couple of tools who seem to dislike each other and are reporting each others posts just out of spite. The staff does not find that humorous... __________________ -Rob Slightly Modified 2001 Tacoma - WATRD.COM WATTORA Prez Tread Lightly certified Tread Trainer I don't work here anymore... In fact, I seldom visit anymore. You can find me via the links in my signature. Last edited by WATRD : 08-27-2007 at 09:59 AM.

08-27-2007, 05:17 PM	#136 (permalink)
Lysmachia Super Moderator Staff Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Boulder, CO Posts: 3,603	Duly noted Rob, - I think we have a group consensus now... __________________ Molly aka Lysmachia 93 4 Runner SAS - All Fixed in Junk Yard Goodness Get your 4x4 VIDEO pr0n here

08-28-2007, 05:22 PM	#137 (permalink)
dlbrunner Contributing Member Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: phoenix Posts: 1,118	I didn't read the entire thread, but the "reporting" thing is a dangerous road to travel. Land use in different areas of the country vary significantly, as to opinions on how that land should be used. I feel very strongly about land use, as do others, to a similar level as religion and politics. Tread lightly is a good policy to promote, but I think that is where the line should be drawn here. I belive this topic should be removed from the board, too many varying opinions and Laws are going to get thrown around and this will get messy. Promote "Tread Lightly" but encourage members and groups to visit their respective state websites to see what the local rules are. Do a search for "Jarbidge shovel brigade" and you will see why land issues can get ugly. One of the few cases where the Federal Government backed down and the local residents got their road. I won't take a side here, but just point out the potential hornet's nest. __________________ Duncan -------------------------------------------------- Current: 95 4X4 SR5 V6, Yakima tracks/rack installed. Aisin hubs. Sonoran Steel IFS Truss. Cobra CB(finally!) Desired: 66 FJ45 shorty EX's: 89 4X4 V6 Downey'd 72 FJ40 W 350/SM465 powertrax, "Billy"

08-28-2007, 05:27 PM	#138 (permalink)
AxleIke Contributing Member Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Boulder, Colorado Posts: 4,535	Its already been decided. Those issues have already been pointed out. __________________ IFS SAS My mods aren't bling enough for the signature line. -All Terrains are for when you know how to drive.

02-17-2008, 08:54 PM	#139 (permalink)
Woodstock45678 Registered User Join Date: Jan 2008 Posts: 2	What defines 'Mudding'? Going back more towards the beginning: my problem with this is that it is a very slippery slope - IE: What constitutes 'mudding?' I haven't seen a formal definition. For example, yesterday I was out on a BLM dirt road, and the recent snow melt had made it quite muddy in some places. To get to where I was going and back involved driving through some deep soupy mud. By doing this I'm sure it wasn't pure TL action since my tires were spinning and kicking up mud everywhere (stock tires was the reason for the spinning), but I don't consider it 'mudding' either. My truck ended up covered in mud and dust just because of the nature of the road I was on. I didn't go out there with the intent to go mudding, I went to go shooting and happened to get dirty on the way. So, what one may deem 'mudding' another may not. So where is the line drawn? BTW I'm not a huge fan of mud just because of the work involved in the cleanup process. And, just for the record, I'm a supporter of TL/LNT - I just don't want so much policing happening that I cant even drive out to the scrub to go shooting and drive on dirt roads. Last edited by Woodstock45678 : 02-17-2008 at 09:42 PM.

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