FJC 2WD verses 4WD in ice/snow

***Corey*** · 11-28-2006, 11:02 AM

Coming into work this morning I used 4WD the whole way.
Lots of compact snow and ice on the way in, the whole way in.

I noticed at stop lights when taking off I would slide a little sideways, then it would correct itself when in 4WD.
Also when in 4WD your traction control stuff via the onboard computer is all turned off.

Later I took a few corners in 2WD to try and spin the tires, and it did not happen.
What happened was there was a clicking noise from under the dash, and even the throttle would shut down on me even with the gas on.

I guess this is the VSC (Vehicle Stability Control) system kicking in.
It was cool, the vehicle was almost trying to slide sideways, it would have if I had done that in 4WD, but the vehicle applied the brakes to the ones slipping, and totally corrected me as I was going into my turn.
I could have taken my hands off the wheel and the rig would have made the turn on its own.

This is my first rig with all of this new fangled computer gizmo stuff, and I was impressed that 2WD was actually better in this than 4WD.

Anyone else get that impression too that has VSC on their rig?
Also when it kicked in an alarm would go off behind the dash and the VSC light would come on, pretty cool.

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Nate C · 11-28-2006, 11:09 AM

Isn't 2wd better in snow and ice than 4wd anyway?

Or am I thinking about 2wd front wheel drive..???

garrett1478 · 11-28-2006, 11:13 AM

thats why you do the mod where you can use 4WD, e-locker, and VSC all at once

***Corey*** · 11-28-2006, 11:18 AM

Having the VSC and 4WD would be nice, but not so sure I would do the locker on a commute.

Nate, I have driven a lot of 4WD rigs, and 4WD is great for deep powdery stuff and I am sure it would win here over the 2WD with the traction stuff on.

But what I was driving on was about 2" to 3" of pure ice from the compact snow that had frozen over.
This morning temps and still right now is around 24 degrees.

Teotwaki · 11-28-2006, 11:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nate C

Isn't 2wd better in snow and ice than 4wd anyway?

Or am I thinking about 2wd front wheel drive..???

2WD front wheel drive is a PITA on ice. When the front tires lose traction you've lost steering and the drive wheels

04 Rocko Taco · 11-28-2006, 12:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Teotwaki

2WD front wheel drive is a PITA on ice. When the front tires lose traction you've lost steering and the drive wheels

You think?!?! I loved my 2WD FWD Ricer in the ice. Granted I live in Atlanta, Ga, and we dont see a lot of ice, but when we did, I loved it. easy on the skinny pedal, and you just wont lose traction...

BT17R · 11-28-2006, 12:58 PM

Corey, try taking it out in deep snow and forcing it to spin...it won't. Oh, if you overcook it enough it might, but it has to be a heroic entry speed to overcome VSC.

It's an amazing safety system on-road, but can interrupt progress off-road in some conditions where you want wheelspin and can accept some yaw while slogging up a slick climb. I guess that's why it disengages in either system with the center diff locked.

I've read stats from years of analysis of VSC's from different manufacturers selling in Europe longer than here. It's proven to be a tremendous safety device that's even more effective than dedicated snow tires. It's mandated for all cars sold in the US in a few years, and has trickled down from Lexus into most Toyotas as standard equipment now.

I used to object to the nanny computer, but after working it to know what to expect and when, think it will prove helpful for the vast majority of drivers out there. We here at YotaTech, being exceptionally skilled, of course won't need it but can tolerate it for those with lesser skills than ours.

***Corey*** · 11-28-2006, 01:13 PM

Hi Bob.
Yeah, I have been reading the owners manual at night, makes for good bedtime reading

It says it can get hot after awhile.

I guess that is why it does not work when in 4WD high or low, as we do want some wheel spin at times to make it up a climb.

EWAYota · 11-28-2006, 01:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Teotwaki

2WD front wheel drive is a PITA on ice. When the front tires lose traction you've lost steering and the drive wheels

I'd rather have FWD on ice as oppose to RWD on ice. More weight on the front end and grip and power applied with FWD. RWD, all your power is on the rear, which in most cases is light (empty truck bed), and you turn your front wheels and they're just getting pushed straight no matter what.

da_bigg_wigg · 11-28-2006, 01:37 PM

My old civic did well on ice, maybe even slightly better than the 4runner. Weight is a big thing there...

***Corey*** · 11-28-2006, 02:18 PM

Played around a bit in the parking lot after I got off work.
I would purposely slam on the brakes and I guess it is the ABS that kicks in.

It would push back up against my foot and make a clicking sound as well.
That keeps you from locking up your tires and skidding into someone.

Next these on board computers will be asking us how we want our coffee on our into work commute.

Elton · 11-28-2006, 02:21 PM

i found out going up steep hills better to have it in 4wd and flat ground with the locker on it was a handfull with it off it was better in 2wd

da_bigg_wigg · 11-28-2006, 02:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Corey

Played around a bit in the parking lot after I got off work.
I would purposely slam on the brakes and I guess it is the ABS that kicks in.

It would push back up against my foot and make a clicking sound as well.
That keeps you from locking up your tires and skidding into someone.

Next these on board computers will be asking us how we want our coffee on our into work commute.

or parallel parking themselves... *cough * lexus *cough*

EWAYota · 11-28-2006, 03:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Corey

Played around a bit in the parking lot after I got off work.
I would purposely slam on the brakes and I guess it is the ABS that kicks in.

It would push back up against my foot and make a clicking sound as well.
That keeps you from locking up your tires and skidding into someone.

Next these on board computers will be asking us how we want our coffee on our into work commute.

When I went from my 79 Ranger to my 99 F150, my first experience with ABS was while I was idling down a muddy hill after hitting a couple bogs. I started to slide off track and hit the brakes and felt a thud thud thud on my foot. I thought for sure I had mud in my brakes causing it to do that.

Mikestang · 11-28-2006, 03:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by garrett1478

thats why you do the mod where you can use 4WD, e-locker, and VSC all at once

That mod is for 4wd, e-lock, and ATRAC, not VSC.

Does the FJ not have VSC active in 4WD? On the 4R VSC is only turned off when you lock the center diff; you can run 4hi w/VSC (those of us with v8's can't run 2WD).

BT17R · 11-28-2006, 03:57 PM

Corey, yeah it's the ABS there. I know many object to it for good reason when using aggressive tires in deep snow, but for most on-road situations, I'll take it with. Next time, keep your foot on the brake and steer as if in a slalom. That's the real benefit of ABS, providing the ability to steer while braking on low traction surfaces. It's counterintuitive at first and takes some practice to retrain your instincts to let off or pump the brakes.

It takes great effort to overheat the brake pump. The only time I could trigger the overtemp alarm was in my 4th Gen 4R when using the DAC for about a half-mile on a very steep grade. I don't think we'll ever see an overtemp alarm on our FJ's.

BT17R · 11-28-2006, 03:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mikestang

Does the FJ not have VSC active in 4WD?

Yes, M/T only in 4Hi unlocked.

***Corey*** · 11-28-2006, 04:09 PM

Me having the auto, VSC is only in 2WD.
Shift to 4H or 4L, you lose it all.

11-28-2006, 11:09 AM	#2 (permalink)
Nate C Registered User Join Date: May 2002 Location: NW Louisiana Posts: 328	Isn't 2wd better in snow and ice than 4wd anyway? Or am I thinking about 2wd front wheel drive..??? __________________ -Nate C. '07 TRD SE FJ 4x4 '04 Celica '01 Tacoma 4dr TRD 4x4 '97 4Runner LTD 4x4 ----------- '05 Celica GT

11-28-2006, 11:18 AM	#4 (permalink)
*Corey* Co-Founder/Administrator Staff Join Date: May 2002 Location: Auburn, Washington Posts: 26,077	Having the VSC and 4WD would be nice, but not so sure I would do the locker on a commute. Nate, I have driven a lot of 4WD rigs, and 4WD is great for deep powdery stuff and I am sure it would win here over the 2WD with the traction stuff on. But what I was driving on was about 2" to 3" of pure ice from the compact snow that had frozen over. This morning temps and still right now is around 24 degrees. __________________ Corey 2007 FJ Cruiser Built for 4wheelin', expedition, camping, and overlanding use PNW FJ Cruisers ☺ Detailing 101 ☺ Join Topsites ☺ Muffler Comparisons ☺ Maggiolinas In The Wild FJ Cruiser Buildup ☺ New Roof Top Tent ☺ Video Of My Penthouse Part II ☺ Rehinge Your ARB/Engel Fridge Blog About Roof Top Tents ☺ FJC Magazines Online Review Of My Tent ☺ 2009 Specialized Rockhopper Pro

11-28-2006, 12:58 PM	#7 (permalink)
BT17R Contributing Member Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Da Gorge, Oregon Posts: 5,674	Corey, try taking it out in deep snow and forcing it to spin...it won't. Oh, if you overcook it enough it might, but it has to be a heroic entry speed to overcome VSC. It's an amazing safety system on-road, but can interrupt progress off-road in some conditions where you want wheelspin and can accept some yaw while slogging up a slick climb. I guess that's why it disengages in either system with the center diff locked. I've read stats from years of analysis of VSC's from different manufacturers selling in Europe longer than here. It's proven to be a tremendous safety device that's even more effective than dedicated snow tires. It's mandated for all cars sold in the US in a few years, and has trickled down from Lexus into most Toyotas as standard equipment now. I used to object to the nanny computer, but after working it to know what to expect and when, think it will prove helpful for the vast majority of drivers out there. We here at YotaTech, being exceptionally skilled, of course won't need it but can tolerate it for those with lesser skills than ours. __________________ '07 FJ Cruiser TRD SE 6M/T

11-28-2006, 01:13 PM	#8 (permalink)
*Corey* Co-Founder/Administrator Staff Join Date: May 2002 Location: Auburn, Washington Posts: 26,077	Hi Bob. Yeah, I have been reading the owners manual at night, makes for good bedtime reading It says it can get hot after awhile. I guess that is why it does not work when in 4WD high or low, as we do want some wheel spin at times to make it up a climb. __________________ Corey 2007 FJ Cruiser Built for 4wheelin', expedition, camping, and overlanding use PNW FJ Cruisers ☺ Detailing 101 ☺ Join Topsites ☺ Muffler Comparisons ☺ Maggiolinas In The Wild FJ Cruiser Buildup ☺ New Roof Top Tent ☺ Video Of My Penthouse Part II ☺ Rehinge Your ARB/Engel Fridge Blog About Roof Top Tents ☺ FJC Magazines Online Review Of My Tent ☺ 2009 Specialized Rockhopper Pro

11-28-2006, 01:37 PM	#10 (permalink)
da_bigg_wigg Registered User Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Halifax, NS Posts: 1,250	My old civic did well on ice, maybe even slightly better than the 4runner. Weight is a big thing there... __________________ -1992 4Runner (Medallist Edition) Still given 'er 16 years later -Santa Cruz Bullit -Giant STP1 -Empty Wallet Adam

11-28-2006, 11:13 AM	#3 (permalink)
garrett1478 Banned Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 0	thats why you do the mod where you can use 4WD, e-locker, and VSC all at once

11-28-2006, 02:18 PM	#11 (permalink)
*Corey* Co-Founder/Administrator Staff Join Date: May 2002 Location: Auburn, Washington Posts: 26,077	Played around a bit in the parking lot after I got off work. I would purposely slam on the brakes and I guess it is the ABS that kicks in. It would push back up against my foot and make a clicking sound as well. That keeps you from locking up your tires and skidding into someone. Next these on board computers will be asking us how we want our coffee on our into work commute. __________________ Corey 2007 FJ Cruiser Built for 4wheelin', expedition, camping, and overlanding use PNW FJ Cruisers ☺ Detailing 101 ☺ Join Topsites ☺ Muffler Comparisons ☺ Maggiolinas In The Wild FJ Cruiser Buildup ☺ New Roof Top Tent ☺ Video Of My Penthouse Part II ☺ Rehinge Your ARB/Engel Fridge Blog About Roof Top Tents ☺ FJC Magazines Online Review Of My Tent ☺ 2009 Specialized Rockhopper Pro

11-28-2006, 02:21 PM	#12 (permalink)
Elton Contributing Member Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Siletz,Oregon Posts: 10,666	i found out going up steep hills better to have it in 4wd and flat ground with the locker on it was a handfull with it off it was better in 2wd __________________ My Truck 98 4runner SR5 3.4L 5spd 4x4 E-Locker Mods Mom 07 Tundra d-cab limited 5.7L 4x4 auto sister 92 pickup SR5 X-cab 3.0L 5spd 4x4 Papa 89 Pickup SR5 X-cab 4x4 3.0L 5spd/98 4runner SR5 4x4 auto 3.4L R.I.P 91 4runner SR5 4x4 3.0L 5spd Totaled 5/13/06 My Wreck

11-28-2006, 03:57 PM	#16 (permalink)
BT17R Contributing Member Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Da Gorge, Oregon Posts: 5,674	Corey, yeah it's the ABS there. I know many object to it for good reason when using aggressive tires in deep snow, but for most on-road situations, I'll take it with. Next time, keep your foot on the brake and steer as if in a slalom. That's the real benefit of ABS, providing the ability to steer while braking on low traction surfaces. It's counterintuitive at first and takes some practice to retrain your instincts to let off or pump the brakes. It takes great effort to overheat the brake pump. The only time I could trigger the overtemp alarm was in my 4th Gen 4R when using the DAC for about a half-mile on a very steep grade. I don't think we'll ever see an overtemp alarm on our FJ's. __________________ '07 FJ Cruiser TRD SE 6M/T

11-28-2006, 04:09 PM	#18 (permalink)
*Corey* Co-Founder/Administrator Staff Join Date: May 2002 Location: Auburn, Washington Posts: 26,077	Me having the auto, VSC is only in 2WD. Shift to 4H or 4L, you lose it all. __________________ Corey 2007 FJ Cruiser Built for 4wheelin', expedition, camping, and overlanding use PNW FJ Cruisers ☺ Detailing 101 ☺ Join Topsites ☺ Muffler Comparisons ☺ Maggiolinas In The Wild FJ Cruiser Buildup ☺ New Roof Top Tent ☺ Video Of My Penthouse Part II ☺ Rehinge Your ARB/Engel Fridge Blog About Roof Top Tents ☺ FJC Magazines Online Review Of My Tent ☺ 2009 Specialized Rockhopper Pro

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