Ground Issue? Gauge cluster and light problems
03-03-2015, 08:24 PM
#1
Registered User
Thread Starter
Ground Issue? Gauge cluster and light problems
86 4Runner 22re
Alright so in the 3 years i have owned my truck I have never had an electrical issue other than bad battery connection and the switch for my rear window is kind of hit and miss occasionally. This past Wednesday it had rained for about 5 hours and was around 35* when I tried to start my truck. The starter never even clicked. I assumed it was because of how cold and wet it was so i roll started the truck and it fired up fine. I then tried to turn on my wipers and it made a hissing/clicking sound from my dash behind the gauges it sounded like.
My blinker, running lights and wipers all make the dash hiss. if i touch the brakes or put it in reverse the lights will make the gauges fall and the clock and radio will quit working like the battery was taken out. Same for all the switches that make the dash hiss but when i let off the brakes or blinkers everything comes back on and my little ignition bell buzzed like i just turned the ignition on. However my headlights high and low beam work as well as my hazards. And like I said before it will only roll start but runs like brand new. Anyways, I have tested the battery (6 month old yellow optima) has 13v, put a new alternator because the old one was pushing 16v, and tweeker cleaned all my grounds around my battery and the terminals. I have also pulled apart the wiring harness from the CPU to the engine on the passenger side and checked every wire and I couldn't find a bad spot anywhere.
Alright so in the 3 years i have owned my truck I have never had an electrical issue other than bad battery connection and the switch for my rear window is kind of hit and miss occasionally. This past Wednesday it had rained for about 5 hours and was around 35* when I tried to start my truck. The starter never even clicked. I assumed it was because of how cold and wet it was so i roll started the truck and it fired up fine. I then tried to turn on my wipers and it made a hissing/clicking sound from my dash behind the gauges it sounded like.
My blinker, running lights and wipers all make the dash hiss. if i touch the brakes or put it in reverse the lights will make the gauges fall and the clock and radio will quit working like the battery was taken out. Same for all the switches that make the dash hiss but when i let off the brakes or blinkers everything comes back on and my little ignition bell buzzed like i just turned the ignition on. However my headlights high and low beam work as well as my hazards. And like I said before it will only roll start but runs like brand new. Anyways, I have tested the battery (6 month old yellow optima) has 13v, put a new alternator because the old one was pushing 16v, and tweeker cleaned all my grounds around my battery and the terminals. I have also pulled apart the wiring harness from the CPU to the engine on the passenger side and checked every wire and I couldn't find a bad spot anywhere.
03-09-2015, 09:51 AM
#4
NOT Just Ground
NOT Just Ground. Check all battery connections. Losing power when you hit the brakes means there is too much voltage drop in the system, usually from poor connection. When you hit the brakes, the current draw to brake lights increase the voltage drop that the voltage reaching your clock and radio, etc is no longer enough to run them. The lights may simply dim but come back opn when brake is released. The radio/stereo is more sensitive because of electronics. Less than a certain voltage will reset it.
Connections should have bare metal contacting bare metal. Gun/grey metal is not bare metal. Bare metal is shiny copper or steel color.
Connections should have bare metal contacting bare metal. Gun/grey metal is not bare metal. Bare metal is shiny copper or steel color.
03-09-2015, 12:57 PM
#5
Registered User
Thread Starter
NOT Just Ground. Check all battery connections. Losing power when you hit the brakes means there is too much voltage drop in the system, usually from poor connection. When you hit the brakes, the current draw to brake lights increase the voltage drop that the voltage reaching your clock and radio, etc is no longer enough to run them. The lights may simply dim but come back opn when brake is released. The radio/stereo is more sensitive because of electronics. Less than a certain voltage will reset it.
Connections should have bare metal contacting bare metal. Gun/grey metal is not bare metal. Bare metal is shiny copper or steel color.
Connections should have bare metal contacting bare metal. Gun/grey metal is not bare metal. Bare metal is shiny copper or steel color.
03-10-2015, 11:43 AM
#6
03-10-2015, 02:28 PM
#7
You pulled the trim off so you could check the ground location on the left door post.
I have seen water get in there and make things interesting.
Just how did you measure you had 13VDC at the battery
You should also have battery voltage from the positive terminal to any good ground on the whole truck.
I would think you missed something.
35 degrees is not cold when the starting and charging systems are working like they should.
I have seen water get in there and make things interesting.
Just how did you measure you had 13VDC at the battery
You should also have battery voltage from the positive terminal to any good ground on the whole truck.
I would think you missed something.
35 degrees is not cold when the starting and charging systems are working like they should.
Trending Topics
03-11-2015, 10:43 PM
#8
Registered User
Thread Starter
You pulled the trim off so you could check the ground location on the left door post.
I have seen water get in there and make things interesting.
Just how did you measure you had 13VDC at the battery
You should also have battery voltage from the positive terminal to any good ground on the whole truck.
I would think you missed something.
35 degrees is not cold when the starting and charging systems are working like they should.
I have seen water get in there and make things interesting.
Just how did you measure you had 13VDC at the battery
You should also have battery voltage from the positive terminal to any good ground on the whole truck.
I would think you missed something.
35 degrees is not cold when the starting and charging systems are working like they should.
03-12-2015, 01:00 AM
#10
Symptoms suggest either:
1) Bad battery or discharged. A battery may still have thirteen volts IF there is no load. Do you still have 13V when headlights are on?
2) Battery OK but there is high resistance somewhere in the wiring. When current passes through that resistance, it drops the voltage so voltage reaching the parts (starter relay, starter solenoid, clock, radio, buzzer, etc) is no longer high enough.
Start by measuring voltages at points encircled in red below. Positive/red probes to points, negative/black probe to battery negative POST.
IF, and only IF, you have a fully charged battery, they ALL should have around 12V.
When you turn on headlights, ignition On (but engine not started, of course) and AC on, expect voltage to drop to around 11V voltage. If voltage is really low like around 10V or lower, then there is high resistance between that point and the battery positive POST.
Let us know what you find out and we'll go from there.
The kick panel, near U.S./Canada/America's driver's left foot 
1) Bad battery or discharged. A battery may still have thirteen volts IF there is no load. Do you still have 13V when headlights are on?
2) Battery OK but there is high resistance somewhere in the wiring. When current passes through that resistance, it drops the voltage so voltage reaching the parts (starter relay, starter solenoid, clock, radio, buzzer, etc) is no longer high enough.
Start by measuring voltages at points encircled in red below. Positive/red probes to points, negative/black probe to battery negative POST.
IF, and only IF, you have a fully charged battery, they ALL should have around 12V.
When you turn on headlights, ignition On (but engine not started, of course) and AC on, expect voltage to drop to around 11V voltage. If voltage is really low like around 10V or lower, then there is high resistance between that point and the battery positive POST.
Let us know what you find out and we'll go from there.
Last edited by RAD4Runner; 03-12-2015 at 01:04 AM.
03-23-2015, 05:57 PM
#11
Registered User
Thread Starter
Symptoms suggest either:
1) Bad battery or discharged. A battery may still have thirteen volts IF there is no load. Do you still have 13V when headlights are on?
2) Battery OK but there is high resistance somewhere in the wiring. When current passes through that resistance, it drops the voltage so voltage reaching the parts (starter relay, starter solenoid, clock, radio, buzzer, etc) is no longer high enough.
Start by measuring voltages at points encircled in red below. Positive/red probes to points, negative/black probe to battery negative POST.
IF, and only IF, you have a fully charged battery, they ALL should have around 12V.
When you turn on headlights, ignition On (but engine not started, of course) and AC on, expect voltage to drop to around 11V voltage. If voltage is really low like around 10V or lower, then there is high resistance between that point and the battery positive POST.
Let us know what you find out and we'll go from there.
The kick panel, near U.S./Canada/America's driver's left foot
1) Bad battery or discharged. A battery may still have thirteen volts IF there is no load. Do you still have 13V when headlights are on?
2) Battery OK but there is high resistance somewhere in the wiring. When current passes through that resistance, it drops the voltage so voltage reaching the parts (starter relay, starter solenoid, clock, radio, buzzer, etc) is no longer high enough.
Start by measuring voltages at points encircled in red below. Positive/red probes to points, negative/black probe to battery negative POST.
IF, and only IF, you have a fully charged battery, they ALL should have around 12V.
When you turn on headlights, ignition On (but engine not started, of course) and AC on, expect voltage to drop to around 11V voltage. If voltage is really low like around 10V or lower, then there is high resistance between that point and the battery positive POST.
Let us know what you find out and we'll go from there.
The kick panel, near U.S./Canada/America's driver's left foot
03-23-2015, 08:42 PM
#12
Where did you measure the 12V? At ALL points in red? All points in red are in the fuse block, except the ones in ignition switch. Every fuse has a tiny exposed metal on each side. Probe each sise with multi-meter for voltage. Each should have 12V referenced to ground (black/negative probe on ground or bat negative terminal).
Need better description.
What work? What do not work?
The wiper, the blinker the running lights, etc make the dash hiss. BUT do they work?
Searched the forum for location of fuses in fuse block?
86 4Runner 22re
.... The starter never even clicked....
... I then tried to turn on my wipers and it made a hissing/clicking sound from my dash behind the gauges it sounded like.
My blinker, running lights and wipers all make the dash hiss.
if i touch the brakes or put it in reverse the lights will make the gauges fall and the clock and radio will quit working like the battery was taken out. Same for all the switches that make the dash hiss...
.... The starter never even clicked....
... I then tried to turn on my wipers and it made a hissing/clicking sound from my dash behind the gauges it sounded like.
My blinker, running lights and wipers all make the dash hiss.
if i touch the brakes or put it in reverse the lights will make the gauges fall and the clock and radio will quit working like the battery was taken out. Same for all the switches that make the dash hiss...
What work? What do not work?
The wiper, the blinker the running lights, etc make the dash hiss. BUT do they work?
Searched the forum for location of fuses in fuse block?
03-24-2015, 09:41 AM
#13
Registered User
Thread Starter
[QUOTE\]Need better description.
What work? What do not work?
The wiper, the blinker the running lights, etc make the dash hiss. BUT do they work?
Searched the forum for location of fuses in fuse block?[/QUOTE]
Well when i first wrote this thread they would hiss, but didnt work. Now the ignition will not turn anything on except for the "charge" light for the battery. It is like the battery is completely dead but the headlights and fan for heat/ac work flawlessly. Battery reads 12.3V at the post with lights and fan on. The hazard lights also work perfectly fine but blinkers wont do anything.
Its been 4 weeks since i drove my truck so I almost forgot about this. It may help. I drove home from school after it messed up (4hr drive). I had to get off the interstate because of traffic and found more traffic off the exit. After 3.5hrs of driving everything worked (blinkers, wipers, tail and brake lights as far as i could tell) but they only worked for about 5 minutes before the problems started again and they never went away.
Also, I'm not sure what you mean when you say ignition switch and how to check them with the probes. Could you elaborate for me? Thanks again!
What work? What do not work?
The wiper, the blinker the running lights, etc make the dash hiss. BUT do they work?
Searched the forum for location of fuses in fuse block?[/QUOTE]
Well when i first wrote this thread they would hiss, but didnt work. Now the ignition will not turn anything on except for the "charge" light for the battery. It is like the battery is completely dead but the headlights and fan for heat/ac work flawlessly. Battery reads 12.3V at the post with lights and fan on. The hazard lights also work perfectly fine but blinkers wont do anything.
Its been 4 weeks since i drove my truck so I almost forgot about this. It may help. I drove home from school after it messed up (4hr drive). I had to get off the interstate because of traffic and found more traffic off the exit. After 3.5hrs of driving everything worked (blinkers, wipers, tail and brake lights as far as i could tell) but they only worked for about 5 minutes before the problems started again and they never went away.
Also, I'm not sure what you mean when you say ignition switch and how to check them with the probes. Could you elaborate for me? Thanks again!
03-24-2015, 04:30 PM
#14
Its been 4 weeks since i drove my truck so I almost forgot about this. It may help. I drove home from school after it messed up (4hr drive). I had to get off the interstate because of traffic and found more traffic off the exit. After 3.5hrs of driving everything worked (blinkers, wipers, tail and brake lights as far as i could tell) but they only worked for about 5 minutes before the problems started again and they never went away.[/QUOTE]
Looks like either power is not getting to your ignition switch OR ignition switch contacts are bad that even when on, it does not provide power to output pins.
Parts that consistently work- headlights and hazards (and horn, correct?) Take power before Ignition switch. They can be on even with ignition switch in IG ON position.
Parts that do not consistently work take power from Ignition switch, They will only work WHEN and only IF IG switch is in ON position.
Need to verify this. When the blinkers, etc stop working,
Does blower fan also stop working?
Does charge light also STOP working (OFF)?
Does hazard still work?
Do lights still work?
Schematic of fuse circuit and ignition switch is below. When problem happens, measure voltage at each of the points indicated in orange.
OR take voltage measurements at every point while wiggling cables, fuses, etc. See where you lose voltage when you do that.
Also, I'm not sure what you mean when you say ignition switch and how to check them with the probes. Could you elaborate for me? Thanks again!
Check the output to see if it gets voltage when you switch ignition switch to IG on position.
03-24-2015, 06:49 PM
#15
Registered User
Thread Starter
Looks like either power is not getting to your ignition switch OR ignition switch contacts are bad that even when on, it does not provide power to output pins.
Parts that consistently work- headlights and hazards (and horn, correct?) Take power before Ignition switch. They can be on even with ignition switch in IG ON position.
Parts that do not consistently work take power from Ignition switch, They will only work WHEN and only IF IG switch is in ON position.
Need to verify this. When the blinkers, etc stop working,
Does blower fan also stop working?
Does charge light also STOP working (OFF)?
Does hazard still work?
Do lights still work?
Schematic of fuse circuit and ignition switch is below. When problem happens, measure voltage at each of the points indicated in orange.
OR take voltage measurements at every point while wiggling cables, fuses, etc. See where you lose voltage when you do that.
Get a clean, unrusted, paper clip of bare shiny metal and use that to contact the pin from the back of the connector. Probe with multi-meter to see if it has voltage.
Check the output to see if it gets voltage when you switch ignition switch to IG on position.
How to Use a Digital Multimeter (Checking Voltage) | Car Audio 101 - YouTube
Parts that consistently work- headlights and hazards (and horn, correct?) Take power before Ignition switch. They can be on even with ignition switch in IG ON position.
Parts that do not consistently work take power from Ignition switch, They will only work WHEN and only IF IG switch is in ON position.
Need to verify this. When the blinkers, etc stop working,
Does blower fan also stop working?
Does charge light also STOP working (OFF)?
Does hazard still work?
Do lights still work?
Schematic of fuse circuit and ignition switch is below. When problem happens, measure voltage at each of the points indicated in orange.
OR take voltage measurements at every point while wiggling cables, fuses, etc. See where you lose voltage when you do that.
Get a clean, unrusted, paper clip of bare shiny metal and use that to contact the pin from the back of the connector. Probe with multi-meter to see if it has voltage.
Check the output to see if it gets voltage when you switch ignition switch to IG on position.
How to Use a Digital Multimeter (Checking Voltage) | Car Audio 101 - YouTube
And my dad who was helping me can be a little careless especially when hes feeling frustrated so he pulled the 60A(circled in green) out with pliers and it more or less broke apart. Is it suppose to come out?
So whatever is causing my problems is because of the AM1 plug. It is only reading 1V on the meter. Does that mean something inside my fuse box is bad? All though my ignition and everything else came on and worked great, my starter was still clicking, but like most of these old toyotas its had a history of that.
Last edited by 4runnerJones; 03-24-2015 at 06:51 PM.
03-24-2015, 08:14 PM
#16
[QUOTE=4runnerJones;52263596]Alright I feel like I am finally getting somewhere...
Yes. Like I mentioned above, "Looks like either power is not getting to your ignition switch ..." AM1 provides power to IG1 contact of ignition switch.
You should not jump both pins to batt positive at the same time.
Sounds like bad connection inside fuse block OR bad AM1, so let's do this ONE step at a time, properly and thoroughly:
You need to probe EACH of the pins that the 40-Amp fuse sits on, ONE a time.
Pull 40-Amp fuse out.
Multi-meter to Volts DC setting.
Negative probe to batt negative
Positive/red probe to ONE PIN ONLY.
What do you read?_________
Now probe the other pin AND ONLY THAT PIN.
What do you read? _________
Checked your 40-Amp fuse? Checking means:
1) Visually inspection for damage,
2) Actually measuring resistance, AND
3) Actually measuring voltage across it when there is a load to see if it is in fact good, and not compromised.
No damage?
Measure resistance between its contacts. It should be Zero.
What do you see?
If you look closely at top of the 40-Amp fuse, there should be 2 slots where you can see bare metal inside. Can you reach the metal through EACH slot with your test probes?? If not, how about a really thin Unpainted, Unrusted, bare metal shiny paper clip?Then you can do next step.
Plug 40-Amp fuse back. Turn IG ON. AC ON.
Multi-meter in Volts DC setting,
Blck probe to neg batt post.
With red probe touch one slot on top of 40amp fuse / through a paper clip if needed to reach inside.. What do you get?________
Probe the other slot. What do you get? _________
Your Dad may have easily damaged the 60A Fusible Link (in green). In order to remove that, you'd have to unscrew it's terminal from below.
Don't worry about the starter for now We already have a good idea what's causing it on first-gen 4runners. Easy to fix PROPERLY, CLEANLY and ROBUSTLY.
Too answer your question everything to continues to work even when the problem starts. However, we figured out that all problems go away when we jumped the two points the 40A green fuse sits on [AM1] to the POS post..
You should not jump both pins to batt positive at the same time.
Sounds like bad connection inside fuse block OR bad AM1, so let's do this ONE step at a time, properly and thoroughly:
You need to probe EACH of the pins that the 40-Amp fuse sits on, ONE a time.
Pull 40-Amp fuse out.
Multi-meter to Volts DC setting.
Negative probe to batt negative
Positive/red probe to ONE PIN ONLY.
What do you read?_________
Now probe the other pin AND ONLY THAT PIN.
What do you read? _________
Checked your 40-Amp fuse? Checking means:
1) Visually inspection for damage,
2) Actually measuring resistance, AND
3) Actually measuring voltage across it when there is a load to see if it is in fact good, and not compromised.
No damage?
Measure resistance between its contacts. It should be Zero.
What do you see?
If you look closely at top of the 40-Amp fuse, there should be 2 slots where you can see bare metal inside. Can you reach the metal through EACH slot with your test probes?? If not, how about a really thin Unpainted, Unrusted, bare metal shiny paper clip?Then you can do next step.
Plug 40-Amp fuse back. Turn IG ON. AC ON.
Multi-meter in Volts DC setting,
Blck probe to neg batt post.
With red probe touch one slot on top of 40amp fuse / through a paper clip if needed to reach inside.. What do you get?________
Probe the other slot. What do you get? _________
Your Dad may have easily damaged the 60A Fusible Link (in green). In order to remove that, you'd have to unscrew it's terminal from below.
my starter was still clicking, but like most of these old toyotas its had a history of that.
Last edited by RAD4Runner; 03-24-2015 at 08:22 PM.
03-25-2015, 12:14 AM
#17
The fusible link is toast.AM1
Pulling it out like that broke it
Needs to be replaced .To trouble shoot this problem more if that does not cure it.
Like Rad said it needs to be unbolted from the bottom side of the fuse block.
It almost looks like it was open in the picture.
From your described problem it would have been the first thing to check at least for me.
Pulling it out like that broke it
Needs to be replaced .To trouble shoot this problem more if that does not cure it.
Like Rad said it needs to be unbolted from the bottom side of the fuse block.
It almost looks like it was open in the picture.
From your described problem it would have been the first thing to check at least for me.
03-25-2015, 09:16 AM
#19
Registered User
Thread Starter
[QUOTE=RAD4Runner;52263610][QUOTE=4runnerJones;52263596]Alright I feel like I am finally getting somewhere...
Yes. Like I mentioned above, "Looks like either power is not getting to your ignition switch ..." AM1 provides power to IG1 contact of ignition switch.
You should not jump both pins to batt positive at the same time.
Sounds like bad connection inside fuse block OR bad AM1, so let's do this ONE step at a time, properly and thoroughly:
You need to probe EACH of the pins that the 40-Amp fuse sits on, ONE a time.
Pull 40-Amp fuse out.
Multi-meter to Volts DC setting.
Negative probe to batt negative
Positive/red probe to ONE PIN ONLY.
What do you read?____0V_____
Now probe the other pin AND ONLY THAT PIN.
What do you read? ____0.1V_____
Checked your 40-Amp fuse? Checking means:
1) Visually inspection for damage,
2) Actually measuring resistance, AND
3) Actually measuring voltage across it when there is a load to see if it is in fact good, and not compromised.
No damage?
Measure resistance between its contacts. It should be Zero.
What do you see?
0.2 ohms. All other fuses were 0.2 as well so I guess its normal. Fuse looks in good shape as do the contacts.
If you look closely at top of the 40-Amp fuse, there should be 2 slots where you can see bare metal inside. Can you reach the metal through EACH slot with your test probes?? If not, how about a really thin Unpainted, Unrusted, bare metal shiny paper clip?Then you can do next step.
Plug 40-Amp fuse back. Turn IG ON. AC ON.
Multi-meter in Volts DC setting,
Blck probe to neg batt post.
With red probe touch one slot on top of 40amp fuse / through a paper clip if needed to reach inside.. What do you get?___0V_____
Probe the other slot. What do you get? ____0.1V_____
Voltage stayed the same as before. Driver side contact 0.1V and 0V on passenger
Your Dad may have easily damaged the 60A Fusible Link (in green). In order to remove that, you'd have to unscrew it's terminal from below.
Replaced the broken fuse properly. The side of the fuse box is busted open for access to one of the bolts for the fuse. PO has done some serious rigging to this thing
Don't worry about the starter for now We already have a good idea what's causing it on first-gen 4runners. Easy to fix PROPERLY, CLEANLY and ROBUSTLY.
Yes. Like I mentioned above, "Looks like either power is not getting to your ignition switch ..." AM1 provides power to IG1 contact of ignition switch.
You should not jump both pins to batt positive at the same time.
Sounds like bad connection inside fuse block OR bad AM1, so let's do this ONE step at a time, properly and thoroughly:
You need to probe EACH of the pins that the 40-Amp fuse sits on, ONE a time.
Pull 40-Amp fuse out.
Multi-meter to Volts DC setting.
Negative probe to batt negative
Positive/red probe to ONE PIN ONLY.
What do you read?____0V_____
Now probe the other pin AND ONLY THAT PIN.
What do you read? ____0.1V_____
Checked your 40-Amp fuse? Checking means:
1) Visually inspection for damage,
2) Actually measuring resistance, AND
3) Actually measuring voltage across it when there is a load to see if it is in fact good, and not compromised.
No damage?
Measure resistance between its contacts. It should be Zero.
What do you see?
0.2 ohms. All other fuses were 0.2 as well so I guess its normal. Fuse looks in good shape as do the contacts.
If you look closely at top of the 40-Amp fuse, there should be 2 slots where you can see bare metal inside. Can you reach the metal through EACH slot with your test probes?? If not, how about a really thin Unpainted, Unrusted, bare metal shiny paper clip?Then you can do next step.
Plug 40-Amp fuse back. Turn IG ON. AC ON.
Multi-meter in Volts DC setting,
Blck probe to neg batt post.
With red probe touch one slot on top of 40amp fuse / through a paper clip if needed to reach inside.. What do you get?___0V_____
Probe the other slot. What do you get? ____0.1V_____
Voltage stayed the same as before. Driver side contact 0.1V and 0V on passenger
Your Dad may have easily damaged the 60A Fusible Link (in green). In order to remove that, you'd have to unscrew it's terminal from below.
Replaced the broken fuse properly. The side of the fuse box is busted open for access to one of the bolts for the fuse. PO has done some serious rigging to this thing
Don't worry about the starter for now We already have a good idea what's causing it on first-gen 4runners. Easy to fix PROPERLY, CLEANLY and ROBUSTLY.
03-25-2015, 11:34 AM
#20
Since hazards and headlights are working, I expect voltage on both sides of 80-Amp fusible link. That is IF, and only IF, P.O. did not hack the wiring.
Soo... there seems to be a problem on wiring between 80-Amp FL and the 40-Amp Fuse (AM1). Need to inspect wires nuder the Fuse block. Should be obvious if there is broken or burnt wire.
Disconnect battery before embarking on this journey
Soo... there seems to be a problem on wiring between 80-Amp FL and the 40-Amp Fuse (AM1). Need to inspect wires nuder the Fuse block. Should be obvious if there is broken or burnt wire.
Disconnect battery before embarking on this journey
