What is the point of large tires?? - Page 2

xcmountain80 · 08-28-2008, 04:46 AM

No a 285 Interco SSR is more like 34" tall at 33.9" where as a Maxxix bighorn is a mere 33.3" in the 255. While I realize most other 285's are far smaller than the interco it is the outlier. Though at the same time wer were talking about the difference btwn a 35 and a 31 not skinny vs wide. And while ExpWest has a valid argument and well written article cornering an on ramp at 60 with 255's isn't going to give you the same results as with say my 295's. I realize lateral force is at play here and I don't believe that was covered in the ExpoWest article.

Aaron

toyota-erik · 08-28-2008, 05:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JasonWin

That's a sig worthy quote if I ever saw one!

damn it! I should have known that would be used against me. Oh well, glad I could help

dirtoyboy · 08-28-2008, 05:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by berzerkrobot

TC, that statement definitely perplexes me..... I instantly think of how wide racing tires are, esp on f1, indaycar, nascar. Theres no way a tire 1/3 the width of those tires would provide the same grip/traction, or am I missunderstanding something?

Seems to me that the amount of traction would depend on the conditions...

here is an interesting article for your reading pleasure

http://www.expeditionswest.com/resea...tion_rev1.html

saitotiktmdog · 08-28-2008, 05:45 AM

Has to be the dumbest question I hav ever heard in an offrad forum. Should go int he dumbest things you have ever heard about cars thread.

littledipper · 08-28-2008, 06:27 AM

superswamper has some 32 10.50 some of the toyotas you have to lift for bigger tires

dirtoyboy · 08-28-2008, 06:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by littledipper

superswamper has some 32 10.50 some of the toyotas you have to lift for bigger tires

huh

This is not a dumb question, either saito...its been a hot topic among wheelers for years

Maybe you have the correct answer?

ocdropzone · 08-28-2008, 07:53 AM

.....

tc · 08-28-2008, 08:58 AM

See the formula - there is no factor for area - just coefficient of friction and force. The coefficient of friction for rubber on asphalt or concrete is about 0.8.

The reason they have wide tires is often more for stability and heat dissipation, not traction. Look at how F1 tires have the big grooves - the tires may be wide, but there's not that much rubber actually in contact with the ground!

saitotiktmdog · 08-28-2008, 09:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dirtoyboy

huh

This is not a dumb question, either saito...its been a hot topic among wheelers for years

Maybe you have the correct answer?

The point of big tires seems pretty obvouse to me. Exactly how big to go is different. I guess i just find it obvious that larger tires are put on the increase the ground clearance between the axle, springs, a arms etc in order to better negotiate obstacles of larger size. And yes in a lot of cases a lift is necessary to clear the tires.

nv4runner · 08-28-2008, 10:11 AM

From what I've heard and read, wider tires are good for "floating" over terrain, whereas skinnier tires "Cut" into the terrain. Skinnier is better on ice and snow (how deep depends on how much clearance you have) cause the pressure per square inch is higher giving better traction. The skinnies cut through the snow to what is hopefully solid ground.
Go here to see what i mean by floating over the terrain. Particularly the second video and the snow scene in the first video. Wider tires spread the down force over a larger area, which reduces the pressure per square inch.

Taller allows you to go over larger objects or through deeper water, snow, mud, etc without bottoming out.

algranger · 08-28-2008, 10:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by toyota-erik

damn it! I should have known that would be used against me. Oh well, glad I could help

yeah thats definitely goin in my sig now everone will know about your penis hehehe..

as for the tires mainly you will have a much easier time climbing over obsticles, going through ruts or anything you will have more clearance for your diffs and they grip better basically it depends on what kind and how much wheelin youll be doin id say a rear locker sounds like it may be what you want before larger tires

toyota-erik · 08-28-2008, 10:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by saitotiktmdog

Has to be the dumbest question I hav ever heard in an offrad forum. Should go int he dumbest things you have ever heard about cars thread.

Sorry people, Im going to have to agree here. It would be like going to a drag racing forum and asking "whats the point of having a lot of horsepower?" If your not going to wheel it then there IS no point in having large tires unless you're just a poser.

Quote:

Originally Posted by nv4runner

Skinnier is better on ice and snow (how deep depends on how much clearance you have) cause the pressure per square inch is higher giving better traction. The skinnies cut through the snow to what is hopefully solid ground.

Depends on what type of snow and how deep it is. A skinny tire wont help you in 5' of snow

nv4runner · 08-28-2008, 10:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by toyota-erik

Depends on what type of snow and how deep it is. A skinny tire wont help you in 5' of snow

A skinny tire might not even help in 4' of snow, but just about anything below the body of your truck they should be able to handle, which is why i added the part about depending on your clearance. The only times I've been stuck is in snow up to my bumper with the 31's without chains.

berzerkrobot · 08-28-2008, 11:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tc

See the formula - there is no factor for area - just coefficient of friction and force. The coefficient of friction for rubber on asphalt or concrete is about 0.8.

The reason they have wide tires is often more for stability and heat dissipation, not traction. Look at how F1 tires have the big grooves - the tires may be wide, but there's not that much rubber actually in contact with the ground!

Tc - the actual reason they started putting the groves on f1 tires was to reduce the amount of traction because f1 cars were corning so fast that is was becoming a safety issue. seems ironic.. but thats how the f1 sanctioning body works. Im fairly certain the did the same thing by making the brakes smaller. and then finally cutting the engine size from v10's to v8's. Your'e right about the heat dissipation though.

Another example: Drag cars.

TC4RNR · 08-28-2008, 11:24 AM

next question, please....

credit to 01rnrgirl, see trail report section.

4Crawler · 08-28-2008, 11:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nv4runner

A skinny tire might not even help in 4' of snow, but just about anything below the body of your truck they should be able to handle, which is why i added the part about depending on your clearance. The only times I've been stuck is in snow up to my bumper with the 31's without chains.

I've had 33x10.50 tires in 4'-5' deep snow (aired down to about 6-7 psi) and just before I stopped to take the picture below was pushing through snow over the hood:

Finally did get stuck rounding a steeply banked corner, had snow to the top of the door on the driver's side:

saitotiktmdog · 08-28-2008, 11:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by berzerkrobot

Tc - the actual reason they started putting the groves on f1 tires was to reduce the amount of traction because f1 cars were corning so fast that is was becoming a safety issue. seems ironic.. but thats how the f1 sanctioning body works. Im fairly certain the did the same thing by making the brakes smaller. and then finally cutting the engine size from v10's to v8's. Your'e right about the heat dissipation though.

Another example: Drag cars.

Ferrari, Labrogini etc still have v12 engines. I don't think its a cylinder number as much as a horsepower cap. Ferarri engines are v12 because thats what they use in there cars

tc · 08-28-2008, 01:15 PM

Funny car/top fuel car tires aren't really that wide once they get spinning ...

08-28-2008, 04:46 AM	#26 (permalink)
xcmountain80 Contributing Member Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Jupiter, FL Posts: 1,393	No a 285 Interco SSR is more like 34" tall at 33.9" where as a Maxxix bighorn is a mere 33.3" in the 255. While I realize most other 285's are far smaller than the interco it is the outlier. Though at the same time wer were talking about the difference btwn a 35 and a 31 not skinny vs wide. And while ExpWest has a valid argument and well written article cornering an on ramp at 60 with 255's isn't going to give you the same results as with say my 295's. I realize lateral force is at play here and I don't believe that was covered in the ExpoWest article. Aaron __________________ 02 4Runner, BudBuilt Skids, Custom Sliders, 1"+/- wheel spacers, Nitto 295's, Painted Limited Wheels, TJM-17, ARB-Taco BullBar, LightForce 240's, 1st Gen rollbar, Engel 45 with custom slide, SS 3" Lift, WabFab 1" BL, SS limit Straps, Viair 450C, Aussie Locker Manual hubs and Tru trac with 4.56, Garmin 276c, Icom V8000, Cobra 75, Hannibal RTT, Shady Boy Awning, Tru Speed calibrator, T-Max 9k, 100' MP syn line. Nitto 295's Last edited by xcmountain80 : 08-28-2008 at 04:49 AM.

08-28-2008, 05:45 AM	#29 (permalink)
saitotiktmdog Contributing Member Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: Indiana Posts: 450	Has to be the dumbest question I hav ever heard in an offrad forum. Should go int he dumbest things you have ever heard about cars thread. __________________ 1994 toyota 4x4. 22re turbo (sds em4, intercooler, steedspeed manifold, garrett t3) 4 inch procomp stage two lift. ARB bull bar and warn winch, Quick lock rear, tru trac front 31x10.50 firestone destination MT, 5.29 gears Planned mods. , T-case gears, ditch ifs Beware the groove

08-28-2008, 06:27 AM	#30 (permalink)
littledipper Registered User Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: jacksonville fl Posts: 7	superswamper has some 32 10.50 some of the toyotas you have to lift for bigger tires __________________ 2000 toyota tacoma bone stock

08-28-2008, 07:53 AM	#32 (permalink)
ocdropzone Contributing Member Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: PDX Posts: 2,819	..... __________________ ~Robb '81 Trekker SR5 B4Runner Build '89 Tercel Project POS Gas Saver TREKKER Forum LINK TO ONLINE FACTORY SERVICE MANUALS All Toyota Website Search Engine Wheel Responsibly, Don't screw it up for others... Last edited by ocdropzone : 08-28-2008 at 07:54 AM. Reason: nevermind, wrong thread, wrong thought

08-28-2008, 08:58 AM	#33 (permalink)
tc Contributing Member Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Longmont, CO Posts: 6,887	See the formula - there is no factor for area - just coefficient of friction and force. The coefficient of friction for rubber on asphalt or concrete is about 0.8. The reason they have wide tires is often more for stability and heat dissipation, not traction. Look at how F1 tires have the big grooves - the tires may be wide, but there's not that much rubber actually in contact with the ground! __________________ Check out www.coTTORA.org to hook up with great Toyota 'wheelin' folks! Current - 93 4Runner: 3VZ 33"x10.50" no lift ARB F/R 96 Impala SS: My own personal cop car Previous - 89 2WD Pickup 22R, Fabtech "Ivan Dan" lift, 31x10.50, IASCA World Finals 4th Place Stop with the mods and get on the trail! Pix at www.4wheelingoh.shutterfly.com/action

08-28-2008, 10:11 AM	#35 (permalink)
nv4runner Registered User Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Reno, NV Posts: 92	From what I've heard and read, wider tires are good for "floating" over terrain, whereas skinnier tires "Cut" into the terrain. Skinnier is better on ice and snow (how deep depends on how much clearance you have) cause the pressure per square inch is higher giving better traction. The skinnies cut through the snow to what is hopefully solid ground. Go here to see what i mean by floating over the terrain. Particularly the second video and the snow scene in the first video. Wider tires spread the down force over a larger area, which reduces the pressure per square inch. Taller allows you to go over larger objects or through deeper water, snow, mud, etc without bottoming out. __________________ 92 4Runner 5 spd V6 31X10.5X15LT

08-28-2008, 11:24 AM	#40 (permalink)
TC4RNR Registered User Join Date: May 2007 Location: so. cal. Posts: 480	next question, please.... credit to 01rnrgirl, see trail report section. __________________ http://i172.photobucket.com/albums/w...gca/agreed.jpg 94 4Runner, SR5 3.0V6, 4WD, 5spd: SOLD 99 4Runner, SR5, 3.4L 4WD, 5spd. 265/75/16 BFG A/T. full SS 1.2 lift, RedLine Fluids, Marlin 1200 Clutch, ARB front bumper, BruceTS rear bumper, roof busket, hitch mount tire carrier, Tundra Brakes, Brembo rotors, BudBuilt skid/belly, Lightforce 240 Blitz, PiAA HID, Stubb's HD-SKO sliders.

08-28-2008, 01:15 PM	#43 (permalink)
tc Contributing Member Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Longmont, CO Posts: 6,887	Funny car/top fuel car tires aren't really that wide once they get spinning ... __________________ Check out www.coTTORA.org to hook up with great Toyota 'wheelin' folks! Current - 93 4Runner: 3VZ 33"x10.50" no lift ARB F/R 96 Impala SS: My own personal cop car Previous - 89 2WD Pickup 22R, Fabtech "Ivan Dan" lift, 31x10.50, IASCA World Finals 4th Place Stop with the mods and get on the trail! Pix at www.4wheelingoh.shutterfly.com/action