Hard on for turbochargers? - Page 3

Greedy · 12-15-2007, 04:24 PM

I have had both the TRD S/C and now a Custom Turbo Setup on my 99 4runner. Both has thier advantages:

Top End Power - Turbo
Off the line power - S/C (but my turbo (t3/t4) catches up in a hurry)
Fun to Drive - Turbo
Reliability - Equal
Tuning Ease - S/C
Upgrade Potential - Turbo
Ease of installation - S/C

This all being said - I just broke a rod running 15 lbs of boost. Don't think I would have with the S/C as the power potential isn't there.

This ad is not displayed to registered members.
Register your free account today and become a member on Yotatech!

Greedy · 12-15-2007, 04:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by j-man

hey turbo4runner, hows the megasquirt working on your truck? Im debating wether to go megasquirt, or go piggyback like the urd FTC or something similar to that for my 3.4 turbo project.

I am using the URD port fueler and AIC x6 for fuel - MAPECU2 for timing, o2 adjust (tuning in closed loop), and MAF voltage clamp. It works about as good as a piggyback can in my application I think.

drunberg · 12-15-2007, 05:27 PM

I have the Saabaru Aero (turbo) in an automatic. Very slow until 3k, then it is a totally different car. We shall see how it does in the snow at low RPM's for me, but all I will say for being in the boost is that I make it over Berthoud Pass in the snow way faster than in the 4runner. For the 4runner I would prefer a supercharger for the low end and low speed benefits.

I was able to break the Saabaru loose on a dry road with hankook iPike snow tires, that had liquid mag chloride on it. That s**t is way nasty to drive on. The tires did not break loose like that on snow.

ddiablo · 01-28-2008, 03:28 AM

the 4cyl are easier to turbo cause a turbo is cheaper and lighter than a supercharger but the lag and HEAT have driven me away. a supercharger will pobably last you longer also because of less heat.

j-man · 01-28-2008, 03:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ddiablo

the 4cyl are easier to turbo cause a turbo is cheaper and lighter than a supercharger but the lag and HEAT have driven me away. a supercharger will pobably last you longer also because of less heat.

not trying to be an azz, but do you have any idea what you are talking about or how each of them work? doesnt sound like it, so ill inform you that turbos produce and pump much less heat into a motor compared to a stupidcharger, plus you can intercool them, and no, a supercharger will not last you longer than a turbo, and are much less efficient than turbos. You will not have any "lag" if your system is properly designed and have the correct turbo for your specific application.

j-man · 01-28-2008, 03:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Greedy

I am using the URD port fueler and AIC x6 for fuel - MAPECU2 for timing, o2 adjust (tuning in closed loop), and MAF voltage clamp. It works about as good as a piggyback can in my application I think.

greedy - i wanted to ask you how you like the 6 port fueler. Im about to get it for my setup - was it easy to tune? which injectors did you go with? any hood clearance issues?

Kaydon · 01-28-2008, 03:48 PM

They both have their place.

Personally I would take a supercharger over a turbocharger any day, and I've never seen any evidence to sway my opinion towards turbos.

j-man · 01-28-2008, 06:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kaydon

They both have their place.

Personally I would take a supercharger over a turbocharger any day, and I've never seen any evidence to sway my opinion towards turbos.

why a supercharger? what makes them better in your opinion?

Greedy · 01-29-2008, 12:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by j-man

greedy - i wanted to ask you how you like the 6 port fueler. Im about to get it for my setup - was it easy to tune? which injectors did you go with? any hood clearance issues?

The port fueler has been easy to tune, reliable, and looks cool

I have 30# injectors in there which are more than I will ever need, but they were included with it when I bought it (a long time ago when they were still refining the older model). There are no hood clearance issues with mine, but I do know of someone who had an issue on thier 2000 4runner. I have a hood scoop on mine though and I think it helps. Also, I took out the liner underneath the hood to provide more room.

Installing it is very easy and it produces consistent results. I am sure if you get it you won't be dissapointed.

Good luck and let me know how your set-up turns out!

X-AWDriver · 01-30-2008, 06:14 AM

I like turbos since they aren't limited to engine speed and can easily be upgraded and can make up for lesser oxygen at higher altitudes meaning they can make the same lbs of boost they make as sea level,SC lose pressure up here due to the engine not making as much power on it's own.

tc · 01-30-2008, 06:20 AM

BS - they both make x psi boost over ambient.

The supercharger is controlled by the size of the pulley and the turbo by the wastegate, both of which are easily adjustable for altitude compensation.

b.miller123 · 01-30-2008, 03:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tc

BS - they both make x psi boost over ambient.

The supercharger is controlled by the size of the pulley and the turbo by the wastegate, both of which are easily adjustable for altitude compensation.

^^ I have to agree with you on this one, a supercharger is just as adjustable as a turbo, if not more (a turbo can only spin as fast as the exhaust going through it)

And for the comment about turbo's not limited to engine speed:

Are you saying that turbos are putting out the maximum boost that a particular system needs at idle? And that everything else (any increase in boost pressure) after the exhaust volume/speed increases (usually happens with an increase in rpm, aka engine speed) is just sent out the waste-gate,

in theory: at idle you are making 10psi, which is all you want, and when you are accelerating and the engine is at 3k rpm you've got 20psi, but half of that is getting sent out the waste-gate?

and for the altitude part: yes they might be effected differently, but as stated, both are adjustable

olharleyman · 01-30-2008, 03:46 PM

i have, they were made by Detroit Diesel, most popular models were the 8v-71 and 8v-92 and some other models i cant think of right now, they were 2-stroke diesels but even with the blower they were considered naturally aspirated, the blower was needed just to run, the later models had turbos and blowers but still were NA, at high RPM the turbo had a bypass port to bypass the blower to give the engine extra air

THERE WAS ALSO THE 12V 92 THAT RANT THE SAME SET UP AND THEY WERE MONSTERS BUT FUEL GUZZLERS ALSO AND 1000 A HOLE TO REBUILD BUT A HELL OF A MOTOR WITH A 13 OR 18 SPEED BEHIND THEM. THEY WERE ALSO ON THE CUMMINS MOTORS IN THE EARLY 70'S UP TILL THE 80'S YOU COULD FIND THEM PULLING THE HILLS OF THE WEST COAST FROM BC TO MEXICO

X-AWDriver · 01-31-2008, 07:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tc

BS - they both make x psi boost over ambient.

The supercharger is controlled by the size of the pulley and the turbo by the wastegate, both of which are easily adjustable for altitude compensation.

Hmm,I'm going by what I made at sea level in Texas which was 19psi and i made that at 5800ft with zero changes but I did lose about a half second in the 1/4 mile. My friend on the other hand was making 7psi of boost at the same track same day in Texas with his SC'd Integra Type R but at our home track it wouldn't make any more than 4psi since the motor had less oxygen to play with.

Supechargers will still lose about a second up here with zero changes to anything,tubos can compensate for altitude better with no haslles.

Now I could just adjust the boost controller for more boost but I was pushing my fuel system anyway but up here I had a little more margin for error. My friend on the other hand would've had to change the pulley which was just more money and time with changing it.

I had a datalogger and just tuned my AFC for zero knock and maximum timing advance during WOT runs.

Quote:^^ I have to agree with you on this one, a supercharger is just as adjustable as a turbo, if not more (a turbo can only spin as fast as the exhaust going through it)

And a SC is limited to how fast the engine is turning but you can adjust a $50 manual boost controller to make any possible boost the engine and fuel system can handle. You don't need more exhaust to create more boost,you just need a larger wastegate and keeping it closed will create alot of boost if the turbo is big enough. Of course the better flowing the engine can create better flow but with most stock cars a basic turbo setup will be enough to blow up your motor,at least a SC can't accidently get boost creep ( Wastegate not big enough to evacuate exhaust fast enough) and blow your motor up.

It's been awhile removed from a turbo car so I might have left a few key points out but feel free to get me up to date if I'm wrong as I'm not trying to be a know it all.

X-AWDriver · 01-31-2008, 07:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tc

BS - they both make x psi boost over ambient.

The supercharger is controlled by the size of the pulley and the turbo by the wastegate, both of which are easily adjustable for altitude compensation.

Hmm,I'm going by what I made at sea level in Texas which was 19psi and i made that at 5800ft with zero changes but I did lose about a half second in the 1/4 mile. My friend on the other hand was making 7psi of boost at the same track same day in Texas with his SC'd Integra Type R but at our home track it wouldn't make any more than 4psi since the motor had less oxygen to play with.

Now I could just adjust the boost controller for more boost but I was pushing my fuel system anyway but up here I had a little more margin for error. My friend on the other hand would've had to change the pulley which was just more money and time with changing it.

I had a datalogger and just tuned my AFC for zero knock and maximum timing advance during WOT runs.

Quote:^^ I have to agree with you on this one, a supercharger is just as adjustable as a turbo, if not more (a turbo can only spin as fast as the exhaust going through it)

I can turn by turbo down to stock boost for emossions testing and then leave the place and pump it back up to 16psi for the street and then 19psi for the track in a matter of seconds and if I had a Electronic controller I'd never even leave the driver's seat.

And a SC is limited to how fast the engine is turning but you can adjust a $50 manual boost controller to make any possible boost the engine and fuel system can handle. You don't need more exhaust to create more boost,you just need a larger wastegate and keeping it closed will create alot of boost if the turbo is big enough. Of course the better flowing the engine can create better flow but with most stock cars a basic turbo setup will be enough to blow up your motor,at least a SC can't accidently get boost creep ( Wastegate not big enough to evacuate exhaust fast enough) and blow your motor up.

It's been awhile removed from a turbo car so I might have left a few key points out but feel free to get me up to date if I'm wrong as I'm not trying to be a know it all.

rentedmule · 01-31-2008, 12:39 PM

you boost the same PSI at altitude, it's just that the air is less dense and contains less O2 hence you make less power. on the other hand you're less likely to have detonation issues at altitude and can adjust your boost and timing to make up for the power loss.

you can't just change pullies to run more boost on a S/C - you're very limited as to how much you can adjust your boost with most blowers. headunits have factory spec'd tolerances and if you spin them beyond those tolerances the bearings give out, the impeller hits the casing @ 40K rpms and all the tiny shards get sucked into your engine. i can post pics of the fried/busted bearings that came out of my blower if you want proof

and why the heck do people keep saying you can't intercool with a supercharger??? it's just a matter of plumbing some intake tubing, what's so difficult? I can post pics of dozen's of intercooled S/C setups if you want?

on the turbo lag subject, the turbo 4.3 guys I know are making full boost (20 psi+) at just over 2000 rpms. if you have an automatic trans with the proper torque converter you're pretty much in boost as soon as the truck starts to move

Adam F · 01-31-2008, 03:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rentedmule

and why the heck do people keep saying you can't intercool with a supercharger??? it's just a matter of plumbing some intake tubing, what's so difficult? I can post pics of dozen's of intercooled S/C setups if you want?

How do you put an intercooler on a TRD supercharger? The charger bolts right onto the intake manifold.

tc · 01-31-2008, 06:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rentedmule

you boost the same PSI at altitude, it's just that the air is less dense and contains less O2 hence you make less power.

Correct.

Maybe a better way to explain it is, that the boost (pressure over ambient) is the same, but the absolute intake manifold pressure is lower because the ambient pressure is lower at altitude.

The % O2 is the same at altitude, just the pressure/quantity of air is less.

tc · 01-31-2008, 06:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Adam F

How do you put an intercooler on a TRD supercharger? The charger bolts right onto the intake manifold.

The Ford/Rousch superchargers do it - there's a little "radiator" in between the head and the supercharger.

Greedy · 01-31-2008, 07:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tc

The Ford/Rousch superchargers do it - there's a little "radiator" in between the head and the supercharger.

So does the new TRD S/C for the 4.0 1-GR. It's a roots blower like the one for the 5vz but has a air to water cooler right before the air goes into the lower intake. Works pretty good judging from the rwhp numbers the new tacos are putting down...

blinkybill04 · 02-01-2008, 03:12 PM

this doesnt directly relate, but this site http://homemadeturbo.com/ is kinda fun to look at. havent scoured it in about a year since i wrecked my civic (its mostly honda stuff), but they used to have a 5.0 mustang on there that had a great red neck turbo on it using the stock manifolds inverted.... i'm new to the Toys but i'd love to see pics of someone doing something similar with a taco or runner.

Greedy · 02-01-2008, 03:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by blinkybill04

this doesnt directly relate, but this site http://homemadeturbo.com/ is kinda fun to look at. havent scoured it in about a year since i wrecked my civic (its mostly honda stuff), but they used to have a 5.0 mustang on there that had a great red neck turbo on it using the stock manifolds inverted.... i'm new to the Toys but i'd love to see pics of someone doing something similar with a taco or runner.

Here's my runner engine bay as it was untill about 2 months ago:

I broke a rod and am swapping a new motor in along with new manifolds, crank pulley and some powder coated parts....

X-AWDriver · 02-01-2008, 03:38 PM

There was an intercooler for the Jackson Racing SC for Hondas but I can't remember the price for it. My friend's Type R was only pushing an altitude corrected 7psi and laying down about 220 to the wheels which was a 50hp increase over stock (and could run with last gen Camaros) and he had plans for the IC and a 10psi pulley but kids have a way of changing those plans.

We had a friend who was a Honda mechanic give us a hand and it overall was pretty simple install. The big mod was the addition of an AEM EMS which completely replaces the factory ECU and required a couple hours on the dyno to get the bugs worked out but that thing controlled everything and would've been used for those future plans.

If you look closely to the backside of the engine you can see the SC there.

A Kamikaze header,Thermal Research 3" catback and fuel mods round out the supporting cast.

This Integra was by no means a 1/4 mile killer but coupled with it's tight stock suspension and sticky Falkens and the SC's instant power pulling out of corners made this car pretty fun to drive but it also required the driver's attention since it could get away from you real quick. Easily the best FWDer probably ever in the handling department in stock trim.

He sold it a few years ago with only 30k on the odo for almost what he paid for it brand new.

j-man · 02-01-2008, 11:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Greedy

Here's my runner engine bay as it was untill about 2 months ago:

I broke a rod and am swapping a new motor in along with new manifolds, crank pulley and some powder coated parts....

greedy - what are those vacuum taps for above the port fueler?

blinkybill04 · 02-02-2008, 05:54 AM

Hey greedy thats freaking sweet!

12-15-2007, 05:27 PM	#53 (permalink)
drunberg Registered User Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Denver, Co Posts: 170	I have the Saabaru Aero (turbo) in an automatic. Very slow until 3k, then it is a totally different car. We shall see how it does in the snow at low RPM's for me, but all I will say for being in the boost is that I make it over Berthoud Pass in the snow way faster than in the 4runner. For the 4runner I would prefer a supercharger for the low end and low speed benefits. I was able to break the Saabaru loose on a dry road with hankook iPike snow tires, that had liquid mag chloride on it. That st is way nasty to drive on. The tires did not break loose like that on snow. __________________ 89 P/U: 295K Bought 06-92 Traded in 6-07 01 4Runner SR5: 101K Bought 02-06 Deckplate mod, True Flow Air Filter, 55/100W Headlight bulbs, Thule rack, Fog Light mod My other toy:** Trebuchet with a 24' arm and app 3000lbs of pull from garage door springs. Will throw a 8lb pumpkin 1090' 05 Saab 9-2x Aero "It's a Saabaru"

01-30-2008, 06:14 AM	#60 (permalink)
X-AWDriver Contributing Member Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Littleton,CO Posts: 10,173	I like turbos since they aren't limited to engine speed and can easily be upgraded and can make up for lesser oxygen at higher altitudes meaning they can make the same lbs of boost they make as sea level,SC lose pressure up here due to the engine not making as much power on it's own. __________________ '99 4Runner Highlander 4wd E-locker,rear diff and deckplate mod * 265/75/16 Nitto TerraGrapplers * Yakima Load Warrior rack * clear corners/signals * Tacoma skidplate * Silverstar lamps/fogs Alpine CDA-9831,Bazooka EL Series 250w amp,MTX 10" sub

01-30-2008, 06:20 AM	#61 (permalink)
tc Contributing Member Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Longmont, CO Posts: 8,363	BS - they both make x psi boost over ambient. The supercharger is controlled by the size of the pulley and the turbo by the wastegate, both of which are easily adjustable for altitude compensation. __________________ Check out www.coTTORA.org to hook up with great Toyota 'wheelin' folks! Current - 93 4Runner: 3VZ 33"x10.50" no lift ARB F/R 96 Impala SS: My own personal cop car Previous - 89 2WD Pickup 22R, Fabtech "Ivan Dan" lift, 31x10.50, IASCA World Finals 4th Place Stop with the mods and get on the trail! Pix at www.4wheelingoh.shutterfly.com/action

01-30-2008, 03:46 PM	#63 (permalink)
olharleyman Contributing Member Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: maryland Posts: 3,289	i have, they were made by Detroit Diesel, most popular models were the 8v-71 and 8v-92 and some other models i cant think of right now, they were 2-stroke diesels but even with the blower they were considered naturally aspirated, the blower was needed just to run, the later models had turbos and blowers but still were NA, at high RPM the turbo had a bypass port to bypass the blower to give the engine extra air THERE WAS ALSO THE 12V 92 THAT RANT THE SAME SET UP AND THEY WERE MONSTERS BUT FUEL GUZZLERS ALSO AND 1000 A HOLE TO REBUILD BUT A HELL OF A MOTOR WITH A 13 OR 18 SPEED BEHIND THEM. THEY WERE ALSO ON THE CUMMINS MOTORS IN THE EARLY 70'S UP TILL THE 80'S YOU COULD FIND THEM PULLING THE HILLS OF THE WEST COAST FROM BC TO MEXICO __________________ 1990 4 runner 5 Speed Pro Comp Stage II 4" Lift 6" coils rear Aussie Locker front 5.29's Front And Rear 35 x 12.5 x 15 MT's Micky Thompson Classic II Wheels Super Charged 3.4 on the way 1993 SAS 4runner 22re 5 speed 4" front 5"rear 5.29's 35 x 12.5 BFG KM'S Dick cepek DC 1's 88 stock 4runner 3.0 auto for now 1955 Harley Davidson Springer Stock 1955 Hardtail Frame 4 Speed Kick Start Only 1998 Harley Custom Dresser 107 rwhp 139 ft.lbs.trq.

01-31-2008, 12:39 PM	#66 (permalink)
rentedmule Registered User Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Edmonton AB Posts: 330	you boost the same PSI at altitude, it's just that the air is less dense and contains less O2 hence you make less power. on the other hand you're less likely to have detonation issues at altitude and can adjust your boost and timing to make up for the power loss. you can't just change pullies to run more boost on a S/C - you're very limited as to how much you can adjust your boost with most blowers. headunits have factory spec'd tolerances and if you spin them beyond those tolerances the bearings give out, the impeller hits the casing @ 40K rpms and all the tiny shards get sucked into your engine. i can post pics of the fried/busted bearings that came out of my blower if you want proof and why the heck do people keep saying you can't intercool with a supercharger??? it's just a matter of plumbing some intake tubing, what's so difficult? I can post pics of dozen's of intercooled S/C setups if you want? on the turbo lag subject, the turbo 4.3 guys I know are making full boost (20 psi+) at just over 2000 rpms. if you have an automatic trans with the proper torque converter you're pretty much in boost as soon as the truck starts to move __________________ '93 4runner, 3.0, 31x10.5's, OME900's. '84 Xtracab, 22R, flareside, 6" lift, 33x12.5's '03 Sonoma 2wd, supercharged 4.3L@9psi '81 Turbo Trans Am, WS6, 301V8@9psi Last edited by rentedmule; 01-31-2008 at 12:41 PM.

01-28-2008, 03:28 AM	#54 (permalink)
ddiablo Registered User Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Roseville CA Posts: 34	the 4cyl are easier to turbo cause a turbo is cheaper and lighter than a supercharger but the lag and HEAT have driven me away. a supercharger will pobably last you longer also because of less heat.

02-01-2008, 03:12 PM	#71 (permalink)
blinkybill04 Registered User Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: IN Posts: 19	this doesnt directly relate, but this site http://homemadeturbo.com/ is kinda fun to look at. havent scoured it in about a year since i wrecked my civic (its mostly honda stuff), but they used to have a 5.0 mustang on there that had a great red neck turbo on it using the stock manifolds inverted.... i'm new to the Toys but i'd love to see pics of someone doing something similar with a taco or runner. __________________ 98 4x4 extended cab taco 03 ZX636 02 F4i stunt bike RIP- 97 Civic ex, JDM b16/GSR tranny swap www.myspace.com/psode27

02-01-2008, 03:38 PM	#73 (permalink)
X-AWDriver Contributing Member Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Littleton,CO Posts: 10,173	There was an intercooler for the Jackson Racing SC for Hondas but I can't remember the price for it. My friend's Type R was only pushing an altitude corrected 7psi and laying down about 220 to the wheels which was a 50hp increase over stock (and could run with last gen Camaros) and he had plans for the IC and a 10psi pulley but kids have a way of changing those plans. We had a friend who was a Honda mechanic give us a hand and it overall was pretty simple install. The big mod was the addition of an AEM EMS which completely replaces the factory ECU and required a couple hours on the dyno to get the bugs worked out but that thing controlled everything and would've been used for those future plans. If you look closely to the backside of the engine you can see the SC there. A Kamikaze header,Thermal Research 3" catback and fuel mods round out the supporting cast. This Integra was by no means a 1/4 mile killer but coupled with it's tight stock suspension and sticky Falkens and the SC's instant power pulling out of corners made this car pretty fun to drive but it also required the driver's attention since it could get away from you real quick. Easily the best FWDer probably ever in the handling department in stock trim. He sold it a few years ago with only 30k on the odo for almost what he paid for it brand new. __________________ '99 4Runner Highlander 4wd E-locker,rear diff and deckplate mod * 265/75/16 Nitto TerraGrapplers * Yakima Load Warrior rack * clear corners/signals * Tacoma skidplate * Silverstar lamps/fogs Alpine CDA-9831,Bazooka EL Series 250w amp,MTX 10" sub

02-02-2008, 05:54 AM	#75 (permalink)
blinkybill04 Registered User Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: IN Posts: 19	Hey greedy thats freaking sweet! __________________ 98 4x4 extended cab taco 03 ZX636 02 F4i stunt bike RIP- 97 Civic ex, JDM b16/GSR tranny swap www.myspace.com/psode27

Thread Tools	Search this Thread
Show Printable Version Email this Page	Search this Thread: Advanced Search

Similar Threads
Thread	Thread Starter	Forum	Replies	Last Post
How hard would it be to...	Island_Yota	Pre 84 Trucks	9	09-03-2007 04:53 PM
This shouldn't be so hard!!!	old4runner	86-95 Trucks & 4Runners	13	03-20-2007 11:05 AM
Is it really this hard?	oly884	Off Topic Talk	21	01-30-2007 11:26 PM
How hard.....	93toyotasr5	95.5-2004 Tacomas & 96-2002 4Runners	8	02-23-2005 05:05 PM
How hard???	Stump1883	Offroad Tech	6	02-14-2004 09:39 AM