full length axles?

Birdbrain · 12-27-2009, 11:04 AM

Why is it you dont hear about people using these very often, like the Dana 44's and such?

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89silverpu · 12-27-2009, 11:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Birdbrain

Why is it you dont hear about people using these very often, like the Dana 44's and such?

Because this is yotatech lol

Go here: pirate4x4.com

You'll find real tech and lots of info on full widths over there.

Birdbrain · 12-27-2009, 11:11 AM

Interesting...

part 2 of question: Why dont more people on here use full length?

89silverpu · 12-27-2009, 11:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Birdbrain

Interesting...

part 2 of question: Why dont more people on here use full length?

Because 90% of the people on here don't even know what a full width axle is, and have no use for one because they drive on dirt roads and call it 4wheeling.

What are you wanting to know about full widths?

89silverpu · 12-27-2009, 11:47 AM

Here's a thread to get you started.

http://pirate4x4.com/forum/showthrea...ll+width+axles

camo31"10.50" · 12-27-2009, 11:56 AM

jeez 89silverpu.....generalizing a bit toooo much there..

most people don't go with full widths because of the wheeling they do, the stock toyota axle (with upgraded shafts and such) is plenty strong enough.

most people that SAS their trucks still drive them on the highway occasionally, so full widths would be too wide...there tires would be stickin past their fenders like 1ft on each side LOL

Birdbrain · 12-27-2009, 11:57 AM

Just wanted to knwo about them in general... pro's cons etc.

Mic09dcsm · 12-27-2009, 11:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by camo31"10.50"

jeez 89silverpu.....generalizing a bit toooo much there..

most people don't go with full widths because of the wheeling they do, the stock toyota axle (with upgraded shafts and such) is plenty strong enough.

most people that SAS their trucks still drive them on the highway occasionally, so full widths would be too wide...there tires would be stickin past their fenders like 1ft on each side LOL

Not to mention some places are so narrow it'd be more difficult with a wider axle.

89silverpu · 12-27-2009, 12:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Birdbrain

Just wanted to knwo about them in general... pro's cons etc.

Just a few pros and cons

Pro's:

-Far superior in strength than a Yota axle
-Can handle bigger tires (Yota axles can only realistically stand up to a 40" tire)
-Give a wider stance which is more stable in off camber situations

Cons:

-The extra width can make skinnier trails more difficult to squeeze through
-Way less ground clearance than Toy axles unless the axle is shaved or is on a 42"+ tire, I think the equivalence is like a 37" Toy axle is the same as a D60 on 42's (not 100% on that but you get the idea)
-Toy axles have removable thirds which make trail repairs easier.

It depends on what you want to do. Unless you want a rig with above 40" tires I'd stick with the yota axle, it wouldn't be worth it otherwise with a properly built Yota axle.

Birdbrain · 12-27-2009, 12:08 PM

Ah ok. awesome. thanks.

**waskillywabbit** · 12-27-2009, 12:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 89silverpu

Just a few pros and cons

Pro's:

-Far superior in strength than a Yota axle
Not if you add Longfields and upgrade properly
-Can handle bigger tires (Yota axles can only realistically stand up to a 40" tire)
No need for tires bigger than 37" for most Toyotas (Ftoys do great with these)
-Give a wider stance which is more stable in off camber situations
Wider is not always better depending on trail environment

Cons:

-The extra width can make skinnier trails more difficult to squeeze through
Wider it not always better depending on trail environment
-Way less ground clearance than Toy axles unless the axle is shaved or is on a 42"+ tire, I think the equivalence is like a 37" Toy axle is the same as a D60 on 42's (not 100% on that but you get the idea)
D60 strength to weight/ground clearance ratio is not worth it unless you do have huge tires, then just build a buggy
-Toy axles have removable thirds which make trail repairs easier.
Much easier to work on by yourself without needing an engine hoist to just move the damn axle

It depends on what you want to do. Unless you want a rig with above 40" tires I'd stick with the yota axle, it wouldn't be worth it otherwise with a properly built Yota axle.

Agreed. Optimal tire size for Yotas is a 37" IMO.

With full widths you also must upgrade other things to handle the weight, like the engine, then the rest of the drivetrain, then everything else to accomodate the HP. It is a snowball effect.

If you want to upgrade your toyota axles look into a HD Toyota housing like a Rock Assault or a Diamond or FJ80 axles.

muddpigg · 12-27-2009, 01:29 PM

Dana 44 is weaker than yota axles, unless they are built.

Ground clearance was mentioned, especially with 14 bolt in rear. and D60 infront. It is the perferred setup I'm seeing now. (Don't have a table to prove this at the moment, don't have time to search right now)

With the Longfields the Toy front is as strong as a D60 with 35 splines and stronger than the D60 with 30splines. http://www.longfieldsuperaxles.com/p...etestgraph.jpg

So really unless you get a steal of a deal, its not worth it in my opinion.

Landcruiser axles have become popular too.

4Crawler · 12-27-2009, 02:16 PM

Lots of little gotchas with the full width axles as well, none are insurmountable but must all be dealt with. Things like 5 or 8 bolt patterns on the wheels, then brakes (metric to SAE adapters needed), then drive shaft to differential connection, need for custom steering bits (average SAS kit won't work), spring perch spacing/centering (may need to recenter the axle or shorten a side, or relocate spring perches, etc.), gear ratio matching (if mixing Toyota and Dana axles), etc. Note, you can get custom built, wider than stock Toyota axles made from a number of suppliers.

85excab · 12-27-2009, 03:19 PM

u guys are forgetting 1 major factor, ring and pinyon on a d60 is way stronger than an 8" yota axle. ive got a set of built yota axles on my 85excab, and i kill 2 sets a yr.
im betting i dont kill any ring/pinyons on the d60/eaton 10.5 on my 86 turbo truck on 42"s

**waskillywabbit** · 12-27-2009, 03:23 PM

Depends again on wheeling environment. Ftoys at WEROCK go all day long on Yota axles and 37s just fine. If you gotta have bigger tires, then you should go bigger axles, but I prefer Toyotas.

85excab · 12-27-2009, 03:41 PM

thats not true, my friend has a 4 seater f-toy and at reno rocks this yr, he blew up a brand new yukon 5.29 3rd, trail gear let him borrow thier spare, and gernaded that one too, 37" bfg crawler stickies are hard on 3rds.

**waskillywabbit** · 12-27-2009, 03:43 PM

Yes it is true.

muddpigg · 12-28-2009, 04:42 PM

A lot depends on set up. example: most say 5.70 is not for wheeling but ZUK has had success setting them up for offroading.

But if you put enough HP and torque and wheel by throttle you are going to break any axle. This is why some guys have no choose but to run Rockwells. Somehow I think a comp Ftoy is going to see a little more abuse than I'll ever do to my rig.

85excab · 12-28-2009, 08:26 PM

rockwells suck, have to lift the crap outta your rig to clear the diffs, and need 47-49" tires for any clearence, takes all of the chalenge out of it.

myyota · 12-28-2009, 08:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by waskillywabbit

Agreed. Optimal tire size for Yotas is a 37" IMO.

With full widths you also must upgrade other things to handle the weight, like the engine, then the rest of the drivetrain, then everything else to accomodate the HP. It is a snowball effect.

If you want to upgrade your toyota axles look into a HD Toyota housing like a Rock Assault or a Diamond or FJ80 axles.

Not totally true about the engine, my cousin has an 86 4Runner with Dana 60`s front and rear with 39'' tires and duel cases, his 22RE is bone stock and he has no trouble at all going down the road at the speed limit or better.

89silverpu · 12-28-2009, 08:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by myyota

Not totally true about the engine, my cousin has an 86 4Runner with Dana 60`s front and rear with 39'' tires and duel cases, his 22RE is bone stock and he has no trouble at all going down the road at the speed limit or better.

That's what I was thinking, especially in low low with 4.7's in the rear, there's not much that the 22re couldn't handle...

bigarms23 · 01-03-2010, 07:08 PM

ive run a d44 and d60 for 4yrs now and love them and my 3.0v6 didn't have a problem with them but it also depends on what gears you plan on running that will determin if you going to stress out your motor or not

85gijunk4x4 · 06-20-2010, 06:42 AM

reasons i dont wanna go full width:
they are expensive to buy
my yota is narrow enough to fit in any trail
my yota axle seems strong enough
i dont want to sacrafice turning radius. my yotas turning radius is what impresses the full size truck guys...a yota can seriously fit in the tightest of trails

Fix_It · 07-04-2010, 02:36 AM

im fixing my rear v-6 8.0 rear third now after spinning the stock 4.88 ring gear i now have 4 of these in the last year with 39.5 tsls and a ford 351 w v-8 and longs ..

im looking for a better upgrade .while i really dont want to loose the awsome ground clearence with my yota axles ..its getting tiring repairing the 3rds .. i dont have alot of rocks here but lots of snow and mud ..

is the ring gear from yukon any stronger than stock yota gears ? i never break the carriers just the ring gears and loose about 7 teeth and chip many others . hoping maybe a chrono'd set of gears might be stronger .

bigarms23 · 07-05-2010, 12:42 PM

the full widths arenot expensive to buy i got my d44 front for $100 and spent $200 for gears and a limited slip my rear ford dana 60 i got for $80 and put $480 for gears and a detroit locker for a gt of $860 which is about the same price for a built front toyota axle

12-27-2009, 11:47 AM	#5 (permalink)
89silverpu Registered User Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Sierra Nevada's or the Deserts of Las Vegas Posts: 2,035	Here's a thread to get you started. http://pirate4x4.com/forum/showthrea...ll+width+axles __________________ '89 Beater in progress 4.88's, TRD e-locker, Dual Cases, 33's, Armored, Winch Build Thread Tread Lightly Mixchallenge.info Don't want your winch getting stolen off your truck? Winch Bolt Lock

12-27-2009, 11:56 AM	#6 (permalink)
camo31"10.50" Registered User Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Vian, OK Posts: 3,621	jeez 89silverpu.....generalizing a bit toooo much there.. most people don't go with full widths because of the wheeling they do, the stock toyota axle (with upgraded shafts and such) is plenty strong enough. most people that SAS their trucks still drive them on the highway occasionally, so full widths would be too wide...there tires would be stickin past their fenders like 1ft on each side LOL __________________ FOR SALE 1986 Ext. Cab 4x4, rebuilt 22R, 5spd, 31x10.50 X-Terrains FOR SALE 1992 SR5 4runner V6, 5 speed, 4in. trail-master lift, 33x12.50 BFG muds, 4.56 gears!!! and an IMMACULATE interior..yes..you should be jealous "Its still a toyota man.. Dont deprive it of its capabilities.." "If you can read english, Thank a teacher...If you can speak it, Thank a soldier!!" Kelli Ruark-2009

12-27-2009, 01:29 PM	#12 (permalink)
muddpigg Registered User Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Tacoma, Wa Posts: 1,668	Dana 44 is weaker than yota axles, unless they are built. Ground clearance was mentioned, especially with 14 bolt in rear. and D60 infront. It is the perferred setup I'm seeing now. (Don't have a table to prove this at the moment, don't have time to search right now) With the Longfields the Toy front is as strong as a D60 with 35 splines and stronger than the D60 with 30splines. http://www.longfieldsuperaxles.com/p...etestgraph.jpg So really unless you get a steal of a deal, its not worth it in my opinion. Landcruiser axles have become popular too. __________________ http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rqtr_RvR3sY Balljoints pen to trades and offers. http://www.yotatech.com/f11/ball-joi.../#post51268965 http://www.nw-wheelers.com/forum/showthread.php?t=47994

12-27-2009, 02:16 PM	#13 (permalink)
4Crawler Contributing Member Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: SF Bay Area, CA Posts: 8,750	Lots of little gotchas with the full width axles as well, none are insurmountable but must all be dealt with. Things like 5 or 8 bolt patterns on the wheels, then brakes (metric to SAE adapters needed), then drive shaft to differential connection, need for custom steering bits (average SAS kit won't work), spring perch spacing/centering (may need to recenter the axle or shorten a side, or relocate spring perches, etc.), gear ratio matching (if mixing Toyota and Dana axles), etc. Note, you can get custom built, wider than stock Toyota axles made from a number of suppliers. __________________ 1985 Toyota 4Runner SR-5, 22REC engine, dual t-cases, 4.88 gears, dual ARBs, 33x10.50 BFGs or 35x12.50 MTRs r.c.brown@ieee.org TruckEditor@tlca.org Project: 4Crawler 4Crawler OffRoad Gettin'Off 4WD Club

12-27-2009, 03:19 PM	#14 (permalink)
85excab Registered User Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: Grand Junction, Co Posts: 392	u guys are forgetting 1 major factor, ring and pinyon on a d60 is way stronger than an 8" yota axle. ive got a set of built yota axles on my 85excab, and i kill 2 sets a yr. im betting i dont kill any ring/pinyons on the d60/eaton 10.5 on my 86 turbo truck on 42"s __________________ i drive by brail. Rock Solid Motorsports http://www.rocksolidmotorsports.net/ http://www.lunatic4x4.org/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=45

12-27-2009, 03:23 PM	#15 (permalink)
waskillywabbit Super Moderator-Sponsoring Member Staff Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Tuscaloosa, AL Posts: 16,786	Depends again on wheeling environment. Ftoys at WEROCK go all day long on Yota axles and 37s just fine. If you gotta have bigger tires, then you should go bigger axles, but I prefer Toyotas. __________________ WabFab Off-Road, LLC MySpace Twitter Facebook 7th Annual South East 4Runner Jamboree, 2010 Jeeps are cute. Ken drives one. This extra space provided to you at Tofer's request and now for rent to the highest bidder.

12-27-2009, 03:41 PM	#16 (permalink)
85excab Registered User Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: Grand Junction, Co Posts: 392	thats not true, my friend has a 4 seater f-toy and at reno rocks this yr, he blew up a brand new yukon 5.29 3rd, trail gear let him borrow thier spare, and gernaded that one too, 37" bfg crawler stickies are hard on 3rds. __________________ i drive by brail. Rock Solid Motorsports http://www.rocksolidmotorsports.net/ http://www.lunatic4x4.org/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=45

12-27-2009, 03:43 PM	#17 (permalink)
waskillywabbit Super Moderator-Sponsoring Member Staff Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Tuscaloosa, AL Posts: 16,786	Yes it is true. __________________ WabFab Off-Road, LLC MySpace Twitter Facebook 7th Annual South East 4Runner Jamboree, 2010 Jeeps are cute. Ken drives one. This extra space provided to you at Tofer's request and now for rent to the highest bidder.

12-28-2009, 04:42 PM	#18 (permalink)
muddpigg Registered User Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Tacoma, Wa Posts: 1,668	A lot depends on set up. example: most say 5.70 is not for wheeling but ZUK has had success setting them up for offroading. But if you put enough HP and torque and wheel by throttle you are going to break any axle. This is why some guys have no choose but to run Rockwells. Somehow I think a comp Ftoy is going to see a little more abuse than I'll ever do to my rig. __________________ http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rqtr_RvR3sY Balljoints pen to trades and offers. http://www.yotatech.com/f11/ball-joi.../#post51268965 http://www.nw-wheelers.com/forum/showthread.php?t=47994

12-28-2009, 08:26 PM	#19 (permalink)
85excab Registered User Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: Grand Junction, Co Posts: 392	rockwells suck, have to lift the crap outta your rig to clear the diffs, and need 47-49" tires for any clearence, takes all of the chalenge out of it. __________________ i drive by brail. Rock Solid Motorsports http://www.rocksolidmotorsports.net/ http://www.lunatic4x4.org/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=45

01-03-2010, 07:08 PM	#22 (permalink)
bigarms23 Registered User Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: mountains of truckee ca Posts: 1,043	ive run a d44 and d60 for 4yrs now and love them and my 3.0v6 didn't have a problem with them but it also depends on what gears you plan on running that will determin if you going to stress out your motor or not __________________ 1988sr5 4.3v6 4runner with chevy axles 513 gears dual cases overall 300to1 ratio 36mtzs 5inch lift detroits 1972 stepside jimmy d44/d70 425hp 1995 green range rover

06-20-2010, 06:42 AM	#23 (permalink)
85gijunk4x4 Registered User Join Date: May 2010 Location: piney hicks nj Posts: 840	reasons i dont wanna go full width: they are expensive to buy my yota is narrow enough to fit in any trail my yota axle seems strong enough i dont want to sacrafice turning radius. my yotas turning radius is what impresses the full size truck guys...a yota can seriously fit in the tightest of trails __________________ 1985 pickup 4x4 22re (g.i.junk)

07-04-2010, 02:36 AM	#24 (permalink)
Fix_It Registered User Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: alaska Posts: 48	im fixing my rear v-6 8.0 rear third now after spinning the stock 4.88 ring gear i now have 4 of these in the last year with 39.5 tsls and a ford 351 w v-8 and longs .. im looking for a better upgrade .while i really dont want to loose the awsome ground clearence with my yota axles ..its getting tiring repairing the 3rds .. i dont have alot of rocks here but lots of snow and mud .. is the ring gear from yukon any stronger than stock yota gears ? i never break the carriers just the ring gears and loose about 7 teeth and chip many others . hoping maybe a chrono'd set of gears might be stronger .

07-05-2010, 12:42 PM	#25 (permalink)
bigarms23 Registered User Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: mountains of truckee ca Posts: 1,043	the full widths arenot expensive to buy i got my d44 front for $100 and spent $200 for gears and a limited slip my rear ford dana 60 i got for $80 and put $480 for gears and a detroit locker for a gt of $860 which is about the same price for a built front toyota axle __________________ 1988sr5 4.3v6 4runner with chevy axles 513 gears dual cases overall 300to1 ratio 36mtzs 5inch lift detroits 1972 stepside jimmy d44/d70 425hp 1995 green range rover

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