Alignment Issues? Can't get your rig aligned after a lift? Info...
05-19-2006, 01:51 PM
#21
Registered User
My camber is hosed, as well. Andy -- excellent document and thanks for taking the time. I'm still unclear (yes, I checked out the links listed in this post) about how to move/adjust the cams. I think I can find them, but a few details about how to adjust them would be great.
Anyone have some documentation or a link to point me in the right direction?
Ed
Anyone have some documentation or a link to point me in the right direction?
Ed
05-19-2006, 02:14 PM
#22
Registered User
They just kinda' turn.... Once you get things loosened up, you'll see how it works. Really.
Finding them is somewhat easy, but you'll probably have to pull your skidplate to see them. There are two nuts on the lower A-arm, where it mounts up to the frame (it's the wide part of the "A"). There's one on the front and one on the back of the frame.
Loosen those nuts (they'll be TIGHT) and you should be able to get an idea of which way to turn the cams to fix yourself up.
btw, Standard precautions about jack stands and such REALLY apply here. You're gonna have to use a breaker bar or air impact wrench to get those nuts loose. That's a LOT of torque, and the truck will want to slide around if you just use a jack.
Use stands, set the E-brake, throw it in park if it's an auto... etc.
Finding them is somewhat easy, but you'll probably have to pull your skidplate to see them. There are two nuts on the lower A-arm, where it mounts up to the frame (it's the wide part of the "A"). There's one on the front and one on the back of the frame.
Loosen those nuts (they'll be TIGHT) and you should be able to get an idea of which way to turn the cams to fix yourself up.
btw, Standard precautions about jack stands and such REALLY apply here. You're gonna have to use a breaker bar or air impact wrench to get those nuts loose. That's a LOT of torque, and the truck will want to slide around if you just use a jack.
Use stands, set the E-brake, throw it in park if it's an auto... etc.
05-19-2006, 02:23 PM
#23
Registered User
shims huh? I've been round and round and up and down with alignment issues. Please keep us informed on the how these cam shims work...and please post the part #!
I've got an interesting issue with my passenger side. The rear adjustment cam "tab" (part that h olds the cam upright) - the inner tab has been bent flat - so the cam won't say UP! arg! Looks like a bit of creative bead welding might fix it. Also, same side...front cam - won't stay tight - something tells me the bungholes at firestoned just didn't torque it right. So...specs would really help this brother out really nice....
freeking IFS....! Forgot to mention, my inner and outer tie rods are hosed, along with my steering rack. Good thing I just put new urethanes in there! :pat:
I've got an interesting issue with my passenger side. The rear adjustment cam "tab" (part that h olds the cam upright) - the inner tab has been bent flat - so the cam won't say UP! arg! Looks like a bit of creative bead welding might fix it. Also, same side...front cam - won't stay tight - something tells me the bungholes at firestoned just didn't torque it right. So...specs would really help this brother out really nice....
freeking IFS....! Forgot to mention, my inner and outer tie rods are hosed, along with my steering rack. Good thing I just put new urethanes in there! :pat:
05-19-2006, 02:38 PM
#25
Registered User
Originally Posted by amorphous
ps, does anyone else have to get their 3rd gen aligned after they wheel hard? Seems like after EVERY time I go wheeling, i'm back at firestoned.
weren't kosher. Their point is that they didn't want to work on it 'cause they couldn't be responible forr making things worse. I cleaned all the stuff up (basically, I pulled off the sway bar!) and need to get back there.But in short... yeah, depending on if I've been bashing on the truck or just running fire roads, my alignment is off at the end of the day.
05-19-2006, 04:47 PM
#26
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I've got some SERIOUS negative camber on my left-front tire, while the right-front is almost dead center. Does this indicate that there is a problem, or could it have been 'tuned' like this to correct a problem?
Or, on second inspection, it wasn't as severe as I thought.
Or, on second inspection, it wasn't as severe as I thought.
Last edited by OutdoorLiving; 05-19-2006 at 04:53 PM.
05-20-2006, 03:01 AM
#27
camber? dead center? so the left front tire leans in at the top and the right front is fine?
a decent alignment takes over an hour if the rig is out of spec at all. you MUST get the caster set, then camber, then caster again, then camber again, then toe, then caster, then camber, then toe - at least two full iterations. it's not "easy" with the cams on the front, so most shops just hit the camber and toe - that's a quick and easy job. my local shop that's always done me right tried to tell me the other day that they weren't sure that it had adjustable caster and that i "may have something bent or broken from taking it offroad"...
i quickly set them straight by telling them how i wanted them to first adjust my caster with the front and rear cams, then to move both of them at the same time to correct camber, then go thru the two iterations. they didn't say anything else and just went to work with two techs on it and finished it in about an hour and 15 minutes. i also mentioned that i wanted 150ft-# on the cam lock-down bolts.
mine used to bump out of alignment until i discovered that the passenger rear and driver fronts had to be torqued super-tight. now it lasts for several trips, and if it does get out of spec, it's not by much.
a decent alignment takes over an hour if the rig is out of spec at all. you MUST get the caster set, then camber, then caster again, then camber again, then toe, then caster, then camber, then toe - at least two full iterations. it's not "easy" with the cams on the front, so most shops just hit the camber and toe - that's a quick and easy job. my local shop that's always done me right tried to tell me the other day that they weren't sure that it had adjustable caster and that i "may have something bent or broken from taking it offroad"...
i quickly set them straight by telling them how i wanted them to first adjust my caster with the front and rear cams, then to move both of them at the same time to correct camber, then go thru the two iterations. they didn't say anything else and just went to work with two techs on it and finished it in about an hour and 15 minutes. i also mentioned that i wanted 150ft-# on the cam lock-down bolts.mine used to bump out of alignment until i discovered that the passenger rear and driver fronts had to be torqued super-tight. now it lasts for several trips, and if it does get out of spec, it's not by much.
Last edited by bamachem; 05-20-2006 at 03:03 AM.
05-21-2006, 10:18 AM
#28
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Hey Bamachem, (or anyone that knows and has the time) any way you could post up a few pics on exactly where these bolts are that need to be extra tightened? I had an alignment done a few weeks back, and I am going on a serious wheeling trip this weekend. Much appreciated!!!
05-24-2006, 08:15 AM
#29
Registered User
Originally Posted by bamachem
.... i also mentioned that i wanted 150ft-# on the cam lock-down bolts.
mine used to bump out of alignment until i discovered that the passenger rear and driver fronts had to be torqued super-tight. now it lasts for several trips, and if it does get out of spec, it's not by much.
mine used to bump out of alignment until i discovered that the passenger rear and driver fronts had to be torqued super-tight. now it lasts for several trips, and if it does get out of spec, it's not by much.
thanx andy!
-aaron
05-24-2006, 09:53 AM
#30
i don't know what the spec is. the shops put maybe 50 ft-# on them. i put them as tight as i feel safe torquing them to w/ a 18" bar (about ~150 ft-#) and i haven't had any issues w/ them backing off or damage to the threads.
05-24-2006, 10:06 AM
#32
why don't you give me the $ to get an FSM and i will...
or better yet, why don't you call a dealer and ask a service writer (like i did) and see what their answer is... "well, we can't tell you that right now over the phone, but if you'll bring it in, we'll take care of that alignment issue for ya"...
or better yet, why don't you call a dealer and ask a service writer (like i did) and see what their answer is... "well, we can't tell you that right now over the phone, but if you'll bring it in, we'll take care of that alignment issue for ya"...
05-24-2006, 10:10 AM
#33
Registered User
Originally Posted by bamachem
why don't you give me the $ to get an FSM and i will...
http://aarc.epnet.com/application/9316/9316.htm
96ftlbs on the cams.
05-24-2006, 01:53 PM
#35
Registered User
Originally Posted by bamachem
or better yet, why don't you call a dealer and ask a service writer (like i did) and see what their answer is... "well, we can't tell you that right now over the phone, but if you'll bring it in, we'll take care of that alignment issue for ya"...
that's classic! this thread is seriously cool - i've been "off" from wheeling due to front end issues - namely the steering rack. That should be done next week -as well as having my cams shims fixed and get my junk running straight.
aaron
09-20-2006, 09:15 AM
#36
Contributing Member
I was going to start a new thread but this one seems like a good one to add to. Well I went to the Toyota dealer yesterday to get an alignment because I was beginning to see some feathering on my front tires (indicating to me it was likely out of alignment). So I went in and figured Toyota would do a good job since after all this was a dealer. When I dropped off my truck at the beginning of the day I specifically asked for a printout of the alignment machine and told them I wanted 0 camber and between 0-1 deg of positive toe. I went to pick up my truck and well, well, well.....wouldn't you know it "yeah we just adjusted the toe for you; it was at 7 deg, now you're at 2 deg positive". So I asked to see the printout and I get "sorry you need to ask for a printout when you drop it off". Now I am starting to get pissed! Then he starts to go into all the stuff my vehicle needs and I told him to stop right there, I don't even want to hear about it.....I know exactly what my vehicle needs thank you and I'll tell you what I want you to fix.
To make a long story short I honestly think you could align your own truck better in your own garage as long as it is reasonably level ground. Toe can be done fairly easily at home.
First make sure the tires are pointed striaght and the steering wheel is centered as best you can. To check toe you can just use two 4ft aluminum levels (the composite levels have some give to them......hold the levels against each other to make sure they are true) with some spacer blocks to allow the levels to carry the same angle as the wheel (can be square metal tube or even 2x4 as long as it is dimensionally consistent.....make sure this doesn't sit on a bent or damaged part of the wheel's rim either). The standoff piece is just there to allow you to sit the level parallel to the rim without touching the tire (otherwise the tire sticks out farther than the rim and gets in the way). This method is very similar to the one in the toyota truck alignment link: http://www.automedia.com/DIY/Alignment/ccr20021201ay/1 but you don't need to get any white spraypaint on your tires to do it (I's also not sure the toe might not change very slightly from when the wheel is loaded or unloaded as they do in the writeup!?.....in any case the way I did it, it was loaded). Then secure the setup to each wheel in some way (I used ratchet straps around the wheel itself.....only do it tight enough to secure the levels true with the wheel's rim). It is important to make sure the levels are in fact level horizontally, that the levels midpoint (ie 2ft on a 4 ft level) is exactly on line with the center of the tire horizontally and that they also pass directly through the center of the tire vertically.
Now measure the distance between the levels on each wheel, both behind and in front of the wheels. The average of the two numbers will be your 0 degree toe dimension. If the number in front of the wheels is less than the distance in the back, then you have positive toe.....vice versa, negative toe. To find out the degrees, you just use simple trig (the old SOH, CAH, TOA stuff).
We know Tan (angle) = (toe measurement- zero toe measurement) / (distance to center of the wheel.....24" in our case)
So to get the angle you just solve the formula.....you can also find what the distance should be at the correct toe and this is how you can set your own toe at home.
You can also at least measure degrees of camber although it's alot harder to set at home, you'll know if you need to take it to a shop or not for adjustment. Again use the same standoff piece you used with the levels and either an angle guage or you can use a plumb bob and some trig again to figure it out. I just used a big framing square held against a piece of 2x4 cut to fit against the edge of the rim (I mic'd it with calipers and it was very consistent dimensionally). The truck was pretty near dead nuts on zero camber for mine but if your out more than 2 degrees, you'll see it pretty easily.
Here is another good backyard alignment link:
http://www.mr2.com/TEXT/BackyardAlignment.html
I know there are a few others on 4x4wire as well:
https://www.yotatech.com/forums/show...3&postcount=38
......man those darn dealers make me mad.
To make a long story short I honestly think you could align your own truck better in your own garage as long as it is reasonably level ground. Toe can be done fairly easily at home.
First make sure the tires are pointed striaght and the steering wheel is centered as best you can. To check toe you can just use two 4ft aluminum levels (the composite levels have some give to them......hold the levels against each other to make sure they are true) with some spacer blocks to allow the levels to carry the same angle as the wheel (can be square metal tube or even 2x4 as long as it is dimensionally consistent.....make sure this doesn't sit on a bent or damaged part of the wheel's rim either). The standoff piece is just there to allow you to sit the level parallel to the rim without touching the tire (otherwise the tire sticks out farther than the rim and gets in the way). This method is very similar to the one in the toyota truck alignment link: http://www.automedia.com/DIY/Alignment/ccr20021201ay/1 but you don't need to get any white spraypaint on your tires to do it (I's also not sure the toe might not change very slightly from when the wheel is loaded or unloaded as they do in the writeup!?.....in any case the way I did it, it was loaded). Then secure the setup to each wheel in some way (I used ratchet straps around the wheel itself.....only do it tight enough to secure the levels true with the wheel's rim). It is important to make sure the levels are in fact level horizontally, that the levels midpoint (ie 2ft on a 4 ft level) is exactly on line with the center of the tire horizontally and that they also pass directly through the center of the tire vertically.
Now measure the distance between the levels on each wheel, both behind and in front of the wheels. The average of the two numbers will be your 0 degree toe dimension. If the number in front of the wheels is less than the distance in the back, then you have positive toe.....vice versa, negative toe. To find out the degrees, you just use simple trig (the old SOH, CAH, TOA stuff).
We know Tan (angle) = (toe measurement- zero toe measurement) / (distance to center of the wheel.....24" in our case)
So to get the angle you just solve the formula.....you can also find what the distance should be at the correct toe and this is how you can set your own toe at home.
You can also at least measure degrees of camber although it's alot harder to set at home, you'll know if you need to take it to a shop or not for adjustment. Again use the same standoff piece you used with the levels and either an angle guage or you can use a plumb bob and some trig again to figure it out. I just used a big framing square held against a piece of 2x4 cut to fit against the edge of the rim (I mic'd it with calipers and it was very consistent dimensionally). The truck was pretty near dead nuts on zero camber for mine but if your out more than 2 degrees, you'll see it pretty easily.
Here is another good backyard alignment link:
http://www.mr2.com/TEXT/BackyardAlignment.html
I know there are a few others on 4x4wire as well:
https://www.yotatech.com/forums/show...3&postcount=38
......man those darn dealers make me mad.
Last edited by MTL_4runner; 09-21-2006 at 04:51 AM.
05-15-2007, 08:09 AM
#37
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thx again for this write up and everyone elses posts / info. I wish i would have known about yotatech a few years ago, could have made my life easier. Bump for an informative thread. thx guyes.
