Alignment Issues? Can't get your rig aligned after a lift? Info...

bamachem · 03-21-2006, 05:52 AM

seems like alot of this is going around lately.

Quote:

Originally Posted by (***yotatech***member***)

hi.
the lift and tires are all in. however, i am having a hell of a time with the camber on one side. i have had 3 allignments done since the lift, and not one of the shop is fixing the camber. i realized this after firestone gave me the printout of the readings. twice they have worked on it, and twice they have left it out of wack! this is adjustable by using shims, correct? or...did i mess something up when putting my spacers in? i am confused. not only is the camber out, but the sai on that side is at about 31 degrees, and the included angle is at 33 degrees! ANY suggestions would be greatly appreciated. i am surprised that no one else has had this problem and posted about it.

i am going to call another few shops, but want to verify that the camber can be adjusted, and that the sai and included angle aren't something i can fix easily myself.

thanks!

WELCOME TO ALIGNMENT 101!

(this is a good reference for each term used and what each one means. before you shell out $100+ for an aligment, learn what the kid is doing to your steering system. http://www.familycar.com/alignment.htm)

Intro: we have a solid rear alxe and independent front suspension on every 4runner and truck since 1986. you do NOT need a full 4-wheel alignment on these vehicles since there are NO ADJUSTMENTS for the rear. the only adjustments on them are one the front, and therefore if a "2-wheel alignment" is cheaper at the shop than a 4-wheel alignment, by all means, save your money. below are the basics of any decent "2-wheel alignment" that should be followed to the "T" for every alignment on our toyotas.

"what is involved in an alignment?" three things are the basis for a good alignment:

camber is the "tilt" of the wheel. it either tilts in at the top or tilts in at the bottom. slight tilt in at the top is desirable.

caster is what makes it drive straight on the freeway and keeps the steering tight. notice on a shopping cart how the front wheels will turn in whatever direction you turn the buggy? that's because the contact patch of the wheels trails the pivot point of the steering axis. you want a slight negative caster (contact patch trails the axis of rotation). this makes steering very solid feeling at high speeds - as long as the camber and toe are properly adjusted.

toe - think of it as pigeon toed or crows feet...

its the angle of relation of the two front wheels when looking from above (with the top of the lines being the front of the vehicle - a bird's-eye view). if they are like / \, then the toe is negative or it's sometimes called "Toe-In". if they are like \ /, then the toe is positive and that is sometimes called "Toe-Out". too much of either is bad and will cause VIBRATIONS - no matter what someone else may tell you - BAD TOE CAN AND WILL CAUSE VIBRATIONS LIKE AN OUT-OF-BALANCE WHEEL.

most shops don't care to do it correctly, and that's why you get drift, poor highway feel, and vibrations. our 3rd gens are very sensitive to alignment issues, so if it doesn't feel good, then it's out of alignment. when a 3rd gen is done properly, then it feels AWESOME on the road.

The one thing you want to ALWAYS request up-front BEFORE an alignment is done are initial and final printouts of the specs that the alignment machine are reporting. Use this printout as a reference for reviewing the work that was done and make sure that all adjustments are within the recommended TOYOTA specs.

__________________________________________________ _____

steering center - first and foremost, the steering wheel should be rotated to the "center position", the key turned off and the steering wheel locked into position. this will assure that when you go down the road (assuming that everything else is correct) your steering wheel will be centered. this is an annoying pet peeve of mine that i can't STAND when left uncorrected...

Another problem with steering center has to do with the type of roads that are driven on. Most roads are crowned to allow for water drainage you usually drive on the right side of the crown. This may cause the vehicle to drift to the right so that the steering wheel will appear to be off-center to the left on a straight road. The best way to compensate for this is as follows:

If there is a difference in caster, it should be that the left wheel is more negative than the right wheel, but not more than 1/2 degree. Check the specs for the specific recommendations on side-to-side differences.

If there is a difference in camber, then the left wheel should be more positive than the right wheel. Check the specs to see what the allowable difference is.

__________________________________________________ _____

now, on to the technical stuff:

caster is easily adjusted and should be done FIRST. on a 3rd gen, you do that by moving the front and rear lower cam adjustments until you create a situation where the contact patch of the tire is physically behind the axis of rotation created by the upper and lower ball joints.

from there, you adjust the camber. you get the camber set by moving front and rear adjustment cams the same amounts (inward or outward) to keep the caster set, so you have a ever-so-slight tilt inward at the top (1 degree or less usually), then you recheck your camber.

next, worry about the toe. you adjust the toe by turning the adjustment nuts on the steering links (tie end rods). this is a more tedious process and most techs that i have run across don't bother with toe adjustments, even though they are critical in getting a smooth, oscillation-free ride.

***VERY IMPORTANT STEP***

as a final "step" you then go back and check caster again, AND RE-ADJUST. then check camber again, AND RE-ADJUST. finally, check toe again, AND RE-ADJUST. repeat the process until all (3) are in-spec. a proper alignment is an iterative process - not a get-em-in-and-get-em-out job.

*****SUPER IMPORTANT FOR THOSE OF US WHO GO OFFROAD*****

finally, YOU RE-TORQUE EVERYTHING DOWN - especially the DRIVER FRONT and PASSENGER REAR CAMS along with the TIE END ROD LOCK DOWN NUTS- THESE ARE THE MOST CRITICAL. If you don't torque the snot out of these two cam lock-down bolts, every time you go over a heavy bump, the weight of the rig will want to "walk" these two cam lock-down bolts (the geometry tries to turn them to the left and loosen them) and torque the cam so that it spins to the outside, pushing the lower part of the tire farther out than the top. this will screw up all three aspects of the alignment, causing a negative caster, negative camber, and toe-in. alignment shops grease monkeys (more likely kids now-a-days) are NOT going to properly torque these cam lock-down bolts. after an alignment, i take my 18" socket breaker handle and put about 180+ ft-lbs on them to snug them down. not ONCE have they ever been properly tightened after an aligment.

Quote:

Originally Posted by bamachem

last time i went in for an alignment, the runner was tracking OK, but had a slight pull to the right, and the steering wheel was off center - this was driving home from the freaking alignment shop! after about 300 miles, it was pulling severely to the right, felt loose on the highway and developed a BAD vibration that i felt throught the truck and in the steering wheel. i got underneath and looked - the rear passenger cam adjustment was completely pushed outboard while the front was almost centered. this pushed the caster for that side to the positive, pulled the toe WAY inward, and threw the camber severely inboard. NOT GOOD. it was OBVIOUSLY not properly aligned - not anymore. upon inspection, i found the driver front cam LOOSE. the idgit aligned the truck, but didn't do it properly due to the pull and the off-center steering wheel from the beginning, and to top it off he then didn't torque the cams down properly. the passenger rear and driver front have to be VERY, VERY TIGHT to keep them from self-loosening due to the force of the suspension trying to turn the bolt. on the opposite corners, the suspesion works to tighten the bolts. i use a 18" socket breaker bar to tighten them.

As far as SAI and Included Angle are concerned, you shouldn't have any issues with these as long as everything is installed properly and you don't have any bent or broken parts. If the alignment shop tells you that one of these are out of spec, then you have some serious issues that you need to look into.

i hate lazy idiots that charge $100 for 15 minutes of half-assed work and don't do a job right.

be informed of what's going on and look over their shoulders when they are doing the work so that you know you're getting your money's worth. don't be just another sheep in the flock. know what's going on and what you are paying for. hell, even print this out and take it with you if you need some notes. maybe even share it with the kid doing the alignment and teach him a thing or two...

Quote:

Originally Posted by KEYWORD SEARCH TERMS

alignment aligned caster camber toe SAI inclined angle off-center offcenter pulls pulled vibration vibrations 4runner tacoma tundra firestone ntb sears problems problem right left thrust angle angles inward outward shop tires wheels balanced balance shimmy oscillation oscillations oscillates

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bflooks · 03-21-2006, 05:56 AM

great post! after many searches with different phrasing, nothing really gave true answers. this should help everyone! nice job andy!

phoenixtroy · 03-21-2006, 06:50 AM

excellent post!

FilthyRich · 03-21-2006, 07:24 AM

as always Andy

bamachem · 03-21-2006, 07:51 AM

thanks guys. illustrations "borrowed" from the reference i provided and added to show the difference in the adjustments and what they do.

tc · 03-21-2006, 08:21 AM

Great post Andy!

In my experience, YOU need to take the responsibility for getting the alignment close before taking it to a general service shop for an alignment. Any more, these guys are better described as "Alignment Machine Operators" than alignment technicians. If the alignment is reasonably close, they can get it in based on what the machine tells them. If it's out by a bunch, they can't, as they are not prepared for what a major adjustment of one component will do to the others.

The other option (and what FINALLY corrected the alignment issues on my previous truck) is to take it to an OLD SCHOOL alignment shop. You want to see grease and hand tools, not lasers and mirrors! These people really know alignment and how major adjustments of one factor (camber, caster, toe) will affect the others.

It is amazing what a difference in handling and ride a good alignment can make!

bflooks · 03-21-2006, 08:27 AM

i am going to give firestone one more shot, and then i am going to take it to a place that has NO machines, and do it all with rulers and tape measure. they are the only ones around that i know of that still do it that way. they MUST know allignments to keep it old school.

Buck01 · 03-21-2006, 08:54 AM

This great info. DOes the installation of a BJ spacer keep the tech from adjusting or limit his ability to adjust these settings?

Thanks

bamachem · 03-21-2006, 09:41 AM

the BJ spacer shouldn't change the amount of adjustment that you have at all.

**waskillywabbit** · 03-21-2006, 09:47 AM

I'm just waiting for the post on this thread that starts "I don't have time to read all that so tell me what I need to know..."

***midiwall*** · 03-21-2006, 10:23 AM

As a companion to Andy's post... Here's a DIY article on doing an alignment at home:

http://www.automedia.com/Align/It/Yo...cr20021201ay/1

bflooks · 03-21-2006, 10:39 AM

haha! this thread rocks! what was once a "grey area to the searching eye" subject, is now an "ask again and i'll kill you" topic. good job andy! haha

wjwerdna · 03-21-2006, 10:52 AM

awesome write-up, i think i know why my alignment is off 200 miles after having it done at the stealership (a chrysler "5star" lol, to say the least) time to check the tightness of the bolts and take it back tonight...

"ask again and i'll kill you" lol

bamachem · 03-21-2006, 10:57 AM

ask again and i'll kill you

bflooks · 03-21-2006, 11:20 AM

once again...this thread ROCKS!

Paul S · 03-21-2006, 01:44 PM

What about a thrust angle alignment?

bflooks · 03-21-2006, 01:47 PM

just an update, more for andy, as he helped me earlier.....

i took it to a different firestone shop. called first and made it clear i was not happy with the lack of proper allignment.

they have had it for 4 hours in the bay being worked on. they this is a time consuming allignment and that they should have it done in another 1-2 hours. this makes me happy, as they mentioned needing to mess with the cam bolts and what not to get it right. more than the other place said. so....i will find out in an hour or so if it is fixed.

***midiwall*** · 03-21-2006, 01:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Paul S

What about a thrust angle alignment?

The rear suspension needs to be adjustable. In a stock configuration, these ain't. (well, with a sledge hammer they are, and actually my torsion bars are bent so my thrust is maligned... but that's different.

)

bamachem · 03-21-2006, 02:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Paul S

What about a thrust angle alignment?

a thrust angle alignment is basically a modern "two-wheel alignment". instruments are placed on all 4 wheels, but the front two are the only ones that can be adjusted. therefore, they adjust the front two to work in unison with the fixed rear wheels. this is what i mean by a "two-wheel alignment". a "Full four-wheel alignment" is for a IFS/IRS vehicle that has rear alignment cams/adjustment points.

good question though!

(i'm not an alignment specialist or even a tech. heck, i'm not even a professional automobile mechanic, but i did stay at a holiday inn express one night last month! :pat: )

bflooks · 03-21-2006, 04:08 PM

here is a good bit of info as well.

the shop spent over 3 hours on the allignment today. they got everything perfectly in the middle of the factory specs EXCEPT for caster. they informed me that i need to get the cam kit (shims) from the dealer to get it all 100% perfect. i am waiting for price from trdparts4u on the kit, and it was recommended to have the dealership install the kit, as they will do everything right on, and then firestone will take over with the usual allignments. i am relieved, as the caster is not a crucial player in the wearing down of the tires quickly game.

just an fyi though....shims MAY be needed.

Epic Ed · 05-19-2006, 02:51 PM

My camber is hosed, as well. Andy -- excellent document and thanks for taking the time. I'm still unclear (yes, I checked out the links listed in this post) about how to move/adjust the cams. I think I can find them, but a few details about how to adjust them would be great.

Anyone have some documentation or a link to point me in the right direction?

Ed

***midiwall*** · 05-19-2006, 03:14 PM

They just kinda' turn.... Once you get things loosened up, you'll see how it works. Really.

Finding them is somewhat easy, but you'll probably have to pull your skidplate to see them. There are two nuts on the lower A-arm, where it mounts up to the frame (it's the wide part of the "A"). There's one on the front and one on the back of the frame.

Loosen those nuts (they'll be TIGHT) and you should be able to get an idea of which way to turn the cams to fix yourself up.

btw, Standard precautions about jack stands and such REALLY apply here. You're gonna have to use a breaker bar or air impact wrench to get those nuts loose. That's a LOT of torque, and the truck will want to slide around if you just use a jack.

Use stands, set the E-brake, throw it in park if it's an auto... etc.

amorphous · 05-19-2006, 03:23 PM

shims huh? I've been round and round and up and down with alignment issues. Please keep us informed on the how these cam shims work...and please post the part #!

I've got an interesting issue with my passenger side. The rear adjustment cam "tab" (part that h olds the cam upright) - the inner tab has been bent flat - so the cam won't say UP! arg! Looks like a bit of creative bead welding might fix it. Also, same side...front cam - won't stay tight - something tells me the bungholes at firestoned just didn't torque it right. So...specs would really help this brother out really nice....

freeking IFS....! Forgot to mention, my inner and outer tie rods are hosed, along with my steering rack. Good thing I just put new urethanes in there! :pat:

amorphous · 05-19-2006, 03:26 PM

ps, does anyone else have to get their 3rd gen aligned after they wheel hard? Seems like after EVERY time I go wheeling, i'm back at firestoned.

***midiwall*** · 05-19-2006, 03:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by amorphous

ps, does anyone else have to get their 3rd gen aligned after they wheel hard? Seems like after EVERY time I go wheeling, i'm back at firestoned.

I SHOULD, but I don't. The last time I was there to get it aligned (I have the lifetime thing) they wouldn't touch it since my swaybar brackets were about torn off and a couple of other "cosmetic" things

weren't kosher. Their point is that they didn't want to work on it 'cause they couldn't be responible forr making things worse. I cleaned all the stuff up (basically, I pulled off the sway bar!) and need to get back there.

But in short... yeah, depending on if I've been bashing on the truck or just running fire roads, my alignment is off at the end of the day.

03-21-2006, 06:50 AM	#3 (permalink)
phoenixtroy Registered User Join Date: Sep 2003 Posts: 151	excellent post! __________________ '99 4Runner Ltd \| 2" RB body lift \| 2.5" Toytec Spacers \| 1" Diff Drop \| Bilstein HD up front Trek Master R/T in the back \| PP Products Springs Rear \| SS 3.5" Drop Bar \| AVIC-N1 \| IDMAXs \|

03-21-2006, 08:21 AM	#6 (permalink)
tc Contributing Member Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Longmont, CO Posts: 8,372	Great post Andy! In my experience, YOU need to take the responsibility for getting the alignment close before taking it to a general service shop for an alignment. Any more, these guys are better described as "Alignment Machine Operators" than alignment technicians. If the alignment is reasonably close, they can get it in based on what the machine tells them. If it's out by a bunch, they can't, as they are not prepared for what a major adjustment of one component will do to the others. The other option (and what FINALLY corrected the alignment issues on my previous truck) is to take it to an OLD SCHOOL alignment shop. You want to see grease and hand tools, not lasers and mirrors! These people really know alignment and how major adjustments of one factor (camber, caster, toe) will affect the others. It is amazing what a difference in handling and ride a good alignment can make! __________________ Check out www.coTTORA.org to hook up with great Toyota 'wheelin' folks! Current - 93 4Runner: 3VZ 33"x10.50" no lift ARB F/R 96 Impala SS: My own personal cop car Previous - 89 2WD Pickup 22R, Fabtech "Ivan Dan" lift, 31x10.50, IASCA World Finals 4th Place Stop with the mods and get on the trail! Pix at www.4wheelingoh.shutterfly.com/action

03-21-2006, 08:54 AM	#8 (permalink)
Buck01 Registered User Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Ohio Posts: 596	This great info. DOes the installation of a BJ spacer keep the tech from adjusting or limit his ability to adjust these settings? Thanks __________________ 94 Toyota Truck 4x4 22RE, 5 Speed 175,000 MOD's include High performance Head with bigger valves and cam, LC engineering Header and complete exhaust kit. I have upgraded headlights with the wiring harrness and Hella H4 allweather bulbs. lift shackels in the rear 3 inch BL

03-21-2006, 09:47 AM	#10 (permalink)
waskillywabbit Super Moderator-Sponsoring Member Staff Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Tuscaloosa, AL Posts: 14,548	I'm just waiting for the post on this thread that starts "I don't have time to read all that so tell me what I need to know..." __________________ WabFab Off-Road, LLC MySpace Twitter Facebook 7th Annual South East 4Runner Jamboree, 2010 The toughest part of a Jeep is the chick driving it. WabFab Off-Road 4th Anniversary Sale

03-21-2006, 10:23 AM	#11 (permalink)
*midiwall* Sponsoring Member Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Seattleish, WA Posts: 9,078	As a companion to Andy's post... Here's a DIY article on doing an alignment at home: http://www.automedia.com/Align/It/Yo...cr20021201ay/1 __________________ ~ Mark '96 4Runner Limited S/C MI - 370cc injectors, Air! horns, Airaid MIT, ATS A-arms, 285/75/R16 BFG MTs, Bored TB, Brembo slotted, Cobra 75 WXST, Deckplate, Downey headers, Hayden cooler, IPT valve body, Level 10 torque convertor, Meanstreak exhaust, OME/OME rears, On-board PC (XM, Nav, WiFi, etc), Port 'n Polish, Remote Start, SAW fronts, Hilux console, SMT-5, Stubb's sliders, Supra MAF, TJM-17, 2.0" pulley, Viair 450c, Walbro 190, Weasy2k cams

03-21-2006, 05:56 AM	#2 (permalink)
bflooks Registered User Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: boston, ma Posts: 614	great post! after many searches with different phrasing, nothing really gave true answers. this should help everyone! nice job andy!

03-21-2006, 07:51 AM	#5 (permalink)
bamachem Banned Join Date: Jun 2003 Posts: 0	thanks guys. illustrations "borrowed" from the reference i provided and added to show the difference in the adjustments and what they do.

03-21-2006, 08:27 AM	#7 (permalink)
bflooks Registered User Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: boston, ma Posts: 614	i am going to give firestone one more shot, and then i am going to take it to a place that has NO machines, and do it all with rulers and tape measure. they are the only ones around that i know of that still do it that way. they MUST know allignments to keep it old school.

03-21-2006, 09:41 AM	#9 (permalink)
bamachem Banned Join Date: Jun 2003 Posts: 0	the BJ spacer shouldn't change the amount of adjustment that you have at all.

03-21-2006, 10:39 AM	#12 (permalink)
bflooks Registered User Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: boston, ma Posts: 614	haha! this thread rocks! what was once a "grey area to the searching eye" subject, is now an "ask again and i'll kill you" topic. good job andy! haha

03-21-2006, 10:52 AM	#13 (permalink)
wjwerdna Contributing Member Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Novi, MI Posts: 1,866	awesome write-up, i think i know why my alignment is off 200 miles after having it done at the stealership (a chrysler "5star" lol, to say the least) time to check the tightness of the bolts and take it back tonight... "ask again and i'll kill you" lol __________________ Andrew J W = WJwerdnA '99 4Runner SR5 - Pioneer MP3/IPod w/Infinity all around - lifted 2.5-3in susp. - 33's to fill the gap - sliders - ISR & Deckplate, yada yada - Satoshi - AIM:wjwerdna YotaTech Profile Custom Bumper Link for sale: ??? Nothing?

03-21-2006, 10:57 AM	#14 (permalink)
bamachem Banned Join Date: Jun 2003 Posts: 0	ask again and i'll kill you

03-21-2006, 11:20 AM	#15 (permalink)
bflooks Registered User Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: boston, ma Posts: 614	once again...this thread ROCKS!

03-21-2006, 01:44 PM	#16 (permalink)
Paul S Registered User Join Date: May 2002 Location: Wash Posts: 145	What about a thrust angle alignment?

03-21-2006, 01:47 PM	#17 (permalink)
bflooks Registered User Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: boston, ma Posts: 614	just an update, more for andy, as he helped me earlier..... i took it to a different firestone shop. called first and made it clear i was not happy with the lack of proper allignment. they have had it for 4 hours in the bay being worked on. they this is a time consuming allignment and that they should have it done in another 1-2 hours. this makes me happy, as they mentioned needing to mess with the cam bolts and what not to get it right. more than the other place said. so....i will find out in an hour or so if it is fixed.

03-21-2006, 04:08 PM	#20 (permalink)
bflooks Registered User Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: boston, ma Posts: 614	here is a good bit of info as well. the shop spent over 3 hours on the allignment today. they got everything perfectly in the middle of the factory specs EXCEPT for caster. they informed me that i need to get the cam kit (shims) from the dealer to get it all 100% perfect. i am waiting for price from trdparts4u on the kit, and it was recommended to have the dealership install the kit, as they will do everything right on, and then firestone will take over with the usual allignments. i am relieved, as the caster is not a crucial player in the wearing down of the tires quickly game. just an fyi though....shims MAY be needed.

05-19-2006, 02:51 PM	#21 (permalink)
Epic Ed Registered User Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Phoenix, AZ Posts: 654	My camber is hosed, as well. Andy -- excellent document and thanks for taking the time. I'm still unclear (yes, I checked out the links listed in this post) about how to move/adjust the cams. I think I can find them, but a few details about how to adjust them would be great. Anyone have some documentation or a link to point me in the right direction? Ed __________________ '95 4Runner\|32x11.5 BFG TA KOs\|Hi-flow Cat\|Dynomax muffler; 2.25" exhaust\| Downey Headers\|4.88 gears \|Detroit EZ locker \|Detroit TruTrack\|BJ spacers\|Downey HD coils\|2" rear spring spacers\|Rancho RS9000X/RS5000s\|WARN hubs\|TJM T15

05-19-2006, 03:14 PM	#22 (permalink)
*midiwall* Sponsoring Member Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Seattleish, WA Posts: 9,078	They just kinda' turn.... Once you get things loosened up, you'll see how it works. Really. Finding them is somewhat easy, but you'll probably have to pull your skidplate to see them. There are two nuts on the lower A-arm, where it mounts up to the frame (it's the wide part of the "A"). There's one on the front and one on the back of the frame. Loosen those nuts (they'll be TIGHT) and you should be able to get an idea of which way to turn the cams to fix yourself up. btw, Standard precautions about jack stands and such REALLY apply here. You're gonna have to use a breaker bar or air impact wrench to get those nuts loose. That's a LOT of torque, and the truck will want to slide around if you just use a jack. Use stands, set the E-brake, throw it in park if it's an auto... etc. __________________ ~ Mark '96 4Runner Limited S/C MI - 370cc injectors, Air! horns, Airaid MIT, ATS A-arms, 285/75/R16 BFG MTs, Bored TB, Brembo slotted, Cobra 75 WXST, Deckplate, Downey headers, Hayden cooler, IPT valve body, Level 10 torque convertor, Meanstreak exhaust, OME/OME rears, On-board PC (XM, Nav, WiFi, etc), Port 'n Polish, Remote Start, SAW fronts, Hilux console, SMT-5, Stubb's sliders, Supra MAF, TJM-17, 2.0" pulley, Viair 450c, Walbro 190, Weasy2k cams

05-19-2006, 03:23 PM	#23 (permalink)
amorphous Registered User Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Eugene, OR Posts: 839	shims huh? I've been round and round and up and down with alignment issues. Please keep us informed on the how these cam shims work...and please post the part #! I've got an interesting issue with my passenger side. The rear adjustment cam "tab" (part that h olds the cam upright) - the inner tab has been bent flat - so the cam won't say UP! arg! Looks like a bit of creative bead welding might fix it. Also, same side...front cam - won't stay tight - something tells me the bungholes at firestoned just didn't torque it right. So...specs would really help this brother out really nice.... freeking IFS....! Forgot to mention, my inner and outer tie rods are hosed, along with my steering rack. Good thing I just put new urethanes in there! :pat: __________________ 98 4runner sr5 33"s and locked with the usual suspects

05-19-2006, 03:26 PM	#24 (permalink)
amorphous Registered User Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Eugene, OR Posts: 839	ps, does anyone else have to get their 3rd gen aligned after they wheel hard? Seems like after EVERY time I go wheeling, i'm back at firestoned. __________________ 98 4runner sr5 33"s and locked with the usual suspects

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