Odin

Normally I'd agree with you 100%.
I'm rolling in a 2wd, my stereo doesn't work, the exhaust is all stock, and I have car radial tires so there aren't many noise distractions for me.

When I changed my valve clearance from .008 .012 Hot-Slight Drag to .007 .011 Hot- Slight Drag the reduced noise from the rocker/cam/valves was almost immediately noticeable to me. I didn't have any noise or rub marks from rockers hitting the valve-cover before or after.
What it would do at .006 .010 Hot- Slight Drag... who knows
I don't know how long it takes to burn a valve from a tight setting.




When I first got the truck I did a compression check and found one of the cylinders a little low and recorded my readings.
I drove the truck with that valve adjustment for 3,000 miles. When I took the valve cover off and checked the valves I found they were all at .008 and .012 Hot- Slight Drag.


Except whoever set the valves last had mistakenly set one of the EXHAUST valves to .008. I double and triple checked it.
I know it was at .008 for at least 3,000 miles.
I'm thinking it had probably been at .008 for more like 13,000 miles because I had asked the previous owner when the valves were set last. He told me it was when the head gasket was replaced 10,000 miles ago.

The compression test I took when I first got it didn't show low compression in the cylinder with the .008 exhaust valve clearance.

.

millball

Odin said:
I don't know how long it takes to burn a valve from a tight setting.

The answer would be that it depends on exactly how tight the valve is, and the type of service and loading that the engine experiences.

Might take many thousand miles, might take a few hundred.

I am comforted by that regular sewing machine-like clatter that my old '87 makes when I set' em on the loose side.

Odin

At this point I have to say the YZZD3 oil filter has consistently provided less start up noise than the YZZG1 and the Wix/NAPA Gold 1348. It is worth mentioning that it seems like the 15W-40 oil has created slightly longer cranking periods when cold. A longer cranking period could build oil pressure before the engine fires up and lead to less noise at start up. I'm still using the stock size battery cables because they were in good shape. It might be time to build a thicker set.

Since the YZZD1 is the same design as the D3 I assume it should provide similar if not better performance at start up. The D1 is shorter so it should take less time to fill it.

mwisham

I am a professional diesel mechanic with over 40 years experience and I have always adjusted valves on the loose side to get better performance and engine life. Adjusting valves too tight will cause the valves to open too soon and can actually rob your engine of power. It also can cause burned valves. I would rather hear my valves clatter some than run them too tight. Just saying.

Odin

Another post about a person checking the valve clearances on stock trucks, which is getting exceedingly rare these days because of their age.



*4x4wire*
"Here are some clips from the now defunct Toyota 4x4 truck chat group concerning valve clearances from Paul Cherubini. (Kewlynx will remember this guy.) He was irritatingly patronizing and very proud of his high mileage 22RE, but to me seemed to know a bit about these engines. I found his opinions and experiences with valve clearances interesting. Sorry if this stuff is repetitive, he posted this stuff many times in slightly different forms:

"Valves will be noisy if you set them to the factory spec of .008/012 slight drag. They need to be set at .007/.011 heavy drag to stop the noise and greatly improve power and fuel economy. Mine have been set this way for 385,000 trouble free miles.

The .007/.011 stiff sliding fit is WHAT TOYOTA USED AT THE FACTORY IN JAPAN. I determined this by measuring the clearances on about a dozen 1990-1995 trucks when they were brand new. The 1990-1993 trucks were set at .005/009 slight drag and the '94's and '95's at .007/.011 stiff sliding fit (engine hot). I even checked a new 22R truck in Australia in 1995 and it was set to .007 moderate drag, .011 heavy drag. The factory specs for all these years in all countries was .008/.012 slight drag.

I initially ran my '92 22R-E for 160,000 miles at the 005/009 slight drag setting before I discovered .007/011 stiff fit gave more power, gas mileage, and enabled the engine to rev more freely at high rpm. I now have 385,000 miles on this 22R-E with absolutely no valve train troubles, no timing chain troubles, and like new engine compression of 180 psi on all cylinders.
Anyone on this forum who claims I am wrong about any of the above simply did not measure clearances on new trucks to determine the settings Toyota actually used at the factory in Japan.
COMMON SENSE: Would Toyota have used the 005/.009 setting on hundreds of thousands of 22R engines if this setting risked valve burning? Common Sense Answer: NO.
COMMON SENSE: Would you or anyone have likely bought a new 22R truck off the showroom floor if the valves clicked as loud as they do at the .008/.012 setting? Common Sense Answer: Not Likely. New trucks did not click which is further proof my measurements are correct. If you go to a NAPA auto parts store you will find .031" wire spark plug gauges.
The factory plug gap spec for all 1971- early 1995 4 cylinder Toyota truck engines was .031".

I checked the valve clearance on about a dozen brand new Toyota trucks back in the 1990-1995 years in order to find out the settings Toyota engineers set the engines at back at the engine factory in Japan.
I found they never set them at .008/.012 slight drag as is called for in the factory manual. I found they were usually set to .005/009 slight drag .006/.010 heavy drag or, in the case of the 94 & 95 models, .007/.011 heavy drag.
After extensive experimenting will all possible settings I found the .007/.011 heavy drag gave the best combination of good power, good fuel economy and an eager high revving feel and was also sufficiently tight to quiet the valve tapping clatter one gets at the .008/.012 setting. The .005/.009 setting made the engine feel tight and reluctant to rev.
So any setting between .005/.009 and .008/.012 can be safely used."

Glenh865

Hi All, I just wanted to throw in a comment on this/these post(s). I have a 1987 SR5 with the 22re engine. She's got 308,800 miles and going strong. Anyways, the noise has always bothered me. I always wondered if it happened in all the trucks, or just mine.

Well, I been reading this thread and a couple of others as well. I decided to try the .007/.011 on my truck, just to see if it made a difference. I was actually semi-shocked because it does work; quite well, as a matter of fact. It's never been this quiet. Pretty cool!! And it does make a difference in power. Not a ton, but noticeable for sure. Thank you my friend for all the info!!

Just FYI, once my truck hit 25 years old, I yanked out the entire EGR system, vacuum tube and all. No more emissions tests after the vehicle hits 25. I'm actually changing out my injectors today. I'm replacing the stock injectors with Bosch 315cc performance injectors. See if that will add a little extra go to the old girl. It should help. I'll take the old set to an injector place in town that charges $25 an injector to clean, new o-rings, etc. That way I'll always have an extra set. Thanks again for all the info!! I'm enjoying the read!

Odin

Cool, I'm glad someone else tried it. As you can see I'm not making any big discoveries, just unearthing old information people are afraid to try because it's not printed in the FSM and some ASE Techs don't agree with it. I'm not discrediting them in any way shape or form and it's not my intent. The first person I quoted mentioning the .006 & .010 valve clearance I think I know was also ASE certified for many years at a top shop in town before they retired from the industry.

Unquestionably there's a small percentage of people who run this slightly tighter valve clearance with good results and it definitely quieted my engine down a little. If it's caused people to burn valves, wipe cam lobes, or prematurely wear the rockers they haven't noted it.

It also seemed to make my engine run a little stronger but I didn't want to comment about it because that one exhaust valve was tighter (.008) than the rest and I reset all the valves.
When you're looking for credible/notable changes you make One Change at a time, not two.

I "may" try the even tighter setting but I won't set it at .007 .011 Hot- Heavy Drag/Stiff Sliding Fit.
Through checking/setting valve lash on solid roller cammed big block Chevy's at least once a month for a few drag racing seasons I found I'm more accurate at setting the valves at a slight drag. I'd be shooting for .006 & 010 Hot- Slight Drag.

Odin

Turned in my bottles and cans and purchased the Motorcraft FL-400S oil filter and installed it today. No fault/warning lights have been triggered and no leaks.

It's probably just my imagination but after I changed the filter it seems like I'm getting a little less valve train noise when I get into the mid and upper rpm's. Maybe it has something to do with today's warmer weather, officially in the low 70's. Need to drive it more to make the call on that one.

We'll see how it effects the start up noise tomorrow.
Parked at 2:30pm Saturday.

Odin

In case anybody missed this part from above:
^^ Nope.
When checking out what I parts I needed for thicker cables I found the last time I had my Negative battery cable disconnected I didn't tighten it up as tight as I normally do.
I also found that when I was cleaning the engine I somehow disconnected the Fuel Pressure Up line.
Now that everything is how it was the engine starts fairly quickly like it did.




Started the engine 24 hrs after some initial driving with the new FL-400S oil filter, outside temps were again in lower 70's.

My slightly loose battery cable had to have caused a voltage loss (causing longer cranking times) because it turned over about three times and fired right up. There was less than one second worth of the clattering noise that I'm trying to eliminate so I will not call that a success.

However all I've done is change the filter and like I noted in yesterdays update I swear the engine is making less valve train noise under driving conditions. In the mid to upper rpm it's fairly quiet when before it would start to get a little loud so I would shift a little early to stay out of those rpm ranges.

Perhaps my oil pump is a little weak and the Motorcraft filter is less restrictive than the Toyota YZZD and Wix filters so my valve train is getting a stronger supply of oil. Like I mentioned the only thing that I've changed is the oil filter. I don't think the slightly warmer outside temperatures have a whole lot to do with it.

Odin

The Motorcraft FL-400S did a decent job but after a few weeks it started leaking just the smallest amount from the gasket area. Rather than replace it with the same filter I opted for the Baldwin B2 that is both larger in diameter and in height. The sealing gasket outer diameter is larger but still makes 100% contact with the blocks sealing surface.

Before I installed it I compared it to the Motorcraft FL-1A. They are very close in diameter and height, I would say they probably hold the same amount. A few weeks now with the B2 and it seems to be about as good as the Toyota 90915-YZZD3 when it comes to cold start noise and no leaks.




ADDED- 6/14/15
At the same time as the filter change my oil was starting to darken and it was making a little more noise in the normal driving ranges than it had been. I thought maybe the oil was starting to thin out from use and heat cycles so I decided to change it.
I installed Mobile DELVAC 15W-40 1300 Diesel oil. Again no abnormally long start up noise with this fresh oil and different filter.

I failed to add the above oil info because I was on my POS low ram cell phone and it was becoming quite a pain. I had planned to fix it on the computer but never got back to it.

Odin

Now with a few hundred miles on the Mobile DELVAC 15W-40 1300 Diesel oil and Baldwin B2 filter I've noticed one thing. The more miles I put on it the greater the start up noise and the greater the noise is at normal driving rpm and higher. I'm definitely not happy with this combination and I'm placing most of the blame on the Mobile DELVAC oil. It's making me nervous and I want it out!

In place of the Baldwin B2 filter I installed a Motorcraft FL-1A then filled the pan with Valvoline VR1 20W-50. I considered using Castrol GTX but all of the tests I've seen show it doesn't have nearly the amount of zink the VR1 has. I poured about 1/2 quart of the VR1 into the filter before installing it. When it started up I got the normal valvetrain sound from a fresh oil filter.

Once it was topped off and running I went for a drive noting that once again the noise at normal driving rpm's was reduced.
The noise from higher rpm's was greatly reduced.

I let it sit overnight for roughly 14 hours and cold started it in 80 degree weather.
There was no valvetrain noise.. 0.
We'll see how long that lasts, the odometer is now sitting at 160,000.

wyoming9

iTrader: (1)

Way back when I first got into Toyota`s again .

On the third Generation Celica Forum the .07 and .011 valve settings where pretty much normal. I doubt I would go any tighter though.

These little engines in a Celica where fun to drive

Odin

Here's a shot of the size difference between the large OEM Toyota YZZD3 filter and the Baldwin B2.
The B2 and the Motorcraft FL-1A are almost identical in size.

Odin

I let it sit 24 hrs and started it up in upper 70 degree weather. It made minimal start up noise, certainly much better than it was with the Mobile DELVAC.

Odin

This might be interesting to some. I just found a site that shows how different oils compare and just what amounts of what they are have in them.

Here they show a comparison of the diesel oils. http://www.pqiamerica.com/March2013P...MMARYrev2.html
The diesel oil I first ran was NAPA (supposedly Valvoline) and I was ok with it. The second that I wanted out was the Mobile DELVAC.

Notice the NAPA oil has a higher amount of both Zink and Phosphorus?
That's alot of what the ZDDP package is. Coincidence, maybe, maybe not.

ZINK
NAPA - 1,306 PPM
Mobile DELVAC - 1,012 PPM

Phosphorus
NAPA - 1,155
Mobile DELVAC - 877

wyoming9

iTrader: (1)

Your next project in the ongoing oil project is to design then we will build an alarm that triggers when the filter goes into bypass mode.

I mean if you think of it one has no way to tell when this happens.

Most of Us are pretty good when it comes to changing oil even so.

Can filters be to good that they become blocked fairly quick??

I am not Sure if it was Turkey Hill or Wa Wa ( Pa Quickie Marts) that had to fine a filter on the diesel pumps so the filters clogged fast and fuel just trickled out.

Odin

*Another update that is long overdue*

After running the Valvoline VR1 20W-50 and the Motorcraft FL-1A for some time I started to get longer start up noise. I took a gamble and just changed the filter.

Until this point I had never used the short Toyota YZZD1 filter so I decided I would give it a shot. After the first start up I noticed the start up noise had once again decreased, perhaps to the shortest duration that I've encountered with this engine and it stayed very short in duration to no noise at all.




Now let this be a lesson to me and anyone else reading this. I'm always saying that a visual inspection doesn't cut it when looking for connection/wiring problems and hunting for max power flow through the wiring. This will sound familiar-
My main ground battery cable looked pretty good and didn't exhibit any corrosion and I had cleaned the cable and mounting surfaces so I trusted it. I don't have the money to keep throwing at this thing if it doesn't need it so I knew that could wait. It was spinning the engine over without a problem, my headlights were nice and bright yada yada yada.

About a month ago I swapped my lead Marine battery terminal connectors with some lead Military Spec battery terminal connectors and added a 1/0 awg ground strap from the battery to the engine. I actually kept the stock ground in place.

Even though all I did was add a much thicker ground strap the engine is now cranking faster than it ever has and it seems to have shortened the start up noise. Perhaps because of the increased cranking rpm before it starts the oil is filling the filter faster, pushing out the timing chain tensioner quicker and making it's way to the top end faster too.
I swear it also seems to have smoothed out the engines performance at lower rpm's.

I'm now eager to replace my factory positive cable with something new and thicker but with rear differential problems it's going to have to wait.

So far I think the best filters I've tried are the
Toyota YZZD1(short)
Toyota YZZD3(long)
Motorcraft FL-400S(roughly the same size as the YZZD3)

The FL-400S I tried was good right up until I noticed it was starting to leak so I changed it for something else.

.

Odin

A couple of quotes from another forum:
"There is one drawback to using a larger filter. The timing chain tensioner in the 20r,22r and 22r-e is fed by oil pressure.

The filter on these engines is mounted with the threads lower than the endcap, not much but slightly. This will allow the filter to drain back if the drainback valve doesn't work properly.

When the truck is started the un-tensioned timing chain whips around untill the filter fills with oil and pressurizes the tensioner.

In the meantime the timing chain is flying around in the timing cover, this breaks the runners. Once the runners break the chain wont tighten and will eat through the aluminum cover or allow the chain to jump which bends valves."
"breaks the runners" I assume he's talking about the chain guides.


"Another thing is that while the tensioner is hydralic it has a alot of spring pressure built into it. This prevents the wipping mentioned in the above post at start up. If you ever get wipping you can bet that the tensioner needs to be replaced along with the guides."
While this could be true when I use the smaller filter it reduces the duration of the start up noise. That tells me the chain tensioner needs more than just the spring pressure to control the timing chain slack at start up.


.

chuckross1957

About a month ago I swapped my lead Marine battery terminal connectors with some lead Military Spec battery terminal connectors and added a 1/0 awg ground strap from the battery to the engine. I actually kept the stock ground in place.
[/QUOTE]
There are a lot of good ideas and tips on how to upgrade the wiring on the forum. My wiring upgrade is slowly moving along. I wanted allow for future upgrades like moving up to a larger alternator and adding accessories. But more to the point, I think using the existing ground point on the engine that is near the a/c compressor location and adding additional grounds to the engine is a good strategy. Adding a ground cable to the lower starter mounting bolt seems to be the most common addition. I also upgraded the location on the back of the head from a minor to major ground. Removing the lift bracket and using a thick washer allows you to connect several cables/wires at this location.

Odin

Good suggestions
I don't have A/C so my main factory ground is bolted directly to a bolt hole in the side of the block.
I added the extra ground to a bolt hole a little lower in the block.



Yea I've been thinking about that exact addition.
I've also been thinking about removing the main factory ground and running a short 1 awg ground from that hole in the block to the starter bolt but I'm not sure what good that would do. I'll explain

My thoughts are that if people are having starter grounding problems even with a good main grounding cable the starters metal to metal contact surfaces probably have a contamination problem (oil/dirt) or there's some corrosion going on in that area. If those metal to metal contact points were to be disassembled and cleaned up then treated with a thin film of dielectric grease and the contamination problem is taken care of that problem would probably disappear. One possible downfall here is that the temperatures *Might* get hot enough to trash the dielectric grease. Since the exhaust is on the other side this might not ever happen. I'm a two wheel drive guy so I don't go charging through the grime like some of these guys and that could factor in.

Some of the Ford F150's suffer from a grounding problem because the main factory ground is ran from the battery to the aluminum alternator bracket that's bolted to the block. The common fix is to disassemble the brackets and clean the metal to metal contact areas and treat them to a thin film of dielectric grease. I had to do this one.

That's not a bad way to go.
I'm not planning any additions to my 2WD truck so I just upgraded that ground to a 8 awg cable. I also used 8 awg cable from the battery to the inner fender. I might redo them with 6 awg at a later date though.

I'm also thinking about adding a 1/0 ground strap from the block to the chassis.

americanautowire.com
Grounding Tips

"The main cause of most automotive electrical problems is caused by a bad ground situation. Always keep in mind that a circuit has to be complete. This means that the current has to be able to travel from a good ground to the positive side of the energy source in order to operate. Do not rely on just the negative battery cable as the only ground; always incorporate a separate ground wire or cable from the engine block to the chassis."

.