rear brakes self adjust on 97 Taco? weird feeling in pedal

survivorman97 · 12-25-2009, 07:29 AM

So I put new shoes on my rear brake drums on my 97 Taco 4WD yesterday and now I feel like the pedal travel is much further now. When the shoes where installed i tightened them just enough to get the drum back on and to were the shoes felt like they were just touching the drum. I was very cautious not to over tighten them after the drum was back on. We bled all four brakes and then when I took it for a drive it just feels like the pedal travel had increased enough for me to notice. I didnt know if this was because of the new (thicker) shoes or maybe because the rears dont do as much a the fronts maybe it take s longer for them to seat into the drums. Or maybe it has something to do with an adjustment? I have heard that the rear brakes are self adjusting but im not sure how. Ive heard that they adjust out when you drive in reverse and press the brakes and Ive also heard they adjust when you pull the e-brake lever. Which one is it? Also now that there are new shoes on my e-lever pulls out way further than it used to. Is this something that I should tighten or should I wait until the new shoes have adjusted themselves or do I need to adjust them too?

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yota8083 · 12-25-2009, 07:15 PM

Something doesnt sound like it is hooked up right in the drum. When you get new shoes if anything the e-brake should not pull as far and the pedal should be firmer. You may want to recheck all the springs and make sure nothing is binding in the drum.

There should be a self adjusting mechanism in the drums. If so, it adjusts by drinving in reverse and hitting the breaks. Do this several times (drive in reverse, hit the breaks, drive forward, repeat) and you should slowly start to feel a firmer pedal if everything is hooked up correctly.

camo31"10.50" · 12-25-2009, 07:25 PM

i've heard somewhere that the E-brake plays a role in keeping the shoes adjusted but that's just what i've heard LOL.

but yea do like yota8083 said, just drive in reverse (perty fast) on some black top or concrete and slam on the brakes, should adjust them after 2 or 3 times lol

wyoming9 · 12-26-2009, 12:45 PM

Did you replace or measure the drums to see if they were still in spec.

All Toyotas with rear drum brakes at least the ones I have worked on the ebrake keeps the the shoes adjusted up. So if you don`t use the ebrake the rear brakes are out of adjustment in no time

You didn`t get the adjusters mixed up???.

you have more bleeding to do

Or you have not adjusted the shoes tight enough . I adjust mine up till till the drum won`t turn then back them off to it turns again Something you just need to get a feel for

survivorman97 · 12-26-2009, 01:16 PM

Man that really bothers me that i may have not have put something back together right. I don't know how though? Is there anything that is commonly missed? What do you mean when you say I may have mixed up the adjusters? I think there is just one per side right? I think that they may still be too loose because I know that I did tighten one up too much and i had to loosen it and when I did that the e-brake lever went back to pulling out too far again. So as I see it know when I tighten the new shoes to the drums the lever gets tighter (fewer clicks to pull it out) and vice versa. I didnt check them to see if they where still in speck but nothing looked to bad, I mean how long would it honestly take to wear out brake drums in the rear? Also Wyoming when you said you tightened your till they wouldnt turn and then backed it off I assume you are using the little slit on the inner side of the drum, how do you loosen them? I see from the teeth on the adjuster that they are like a ratchet and are made to tighten only and if you want to loosen you have to stick a second screwdriver in and keep that plate off of the teeth. Whats the trick to that? If I do have them too loose why would i want to manually adjust them? Couldnt I just drive in reverse a bunch and eventually get them where they should be or is that just when there is a little tightening to do? I know everything is working because we have ice where I am now and I have seen the rears lock up when I slam the brakes on the slick surface. I sure hope I didnt mess something up.. thanks for the advice keep it coming

dark_fairytales · 12-26-2009, 04:17 PM

I have found with experience that toyota drum breaks like to be adjusted pretty damned tight. from your explanation it dose not sound like you did tighten the adjuster enough.

it is not likely you put something in wrong, as im sure it would be noticeable. Just take a second look to see and while your at it if you drum comes off easy. you simply need to tighten your adjuster much more. you should also check your E-break adjuster due the the cable dose stretch over time.

wyoming9 · 12-26-2009, 11:47 PM

After doing a bunch of these vehicles. It gets to just be a habit most times I really don`t know the history so have no idea how long the drums have been on .

i pretty much put new drums on since they seem to be all made in China anymore. Life of drums . It depends on how often they get over heated and of course metal to metal contact doesn`t help.

Yes once you get used to loosening the adjusters using a screw driver to hold the arm off the gear so you can loosen the adjuster It is not bad

I also back off the brakes like this before trying to remove the drum .

I have seen people take both sides of the brakes off at once and get the adjusters mixed up.

Th self adjusters only keep the shoes adjusted up once they are adjusted up to the correct tension

survivorman97 · 12-29-2009, 12:53 PM

So I guess my main question now is how tight do they need to be? What is too tight and how can I tell. Is this something that can be measured with a torque wrench? Also I'm still not sure why my pedal feels so much different, could it be simply because there are new shoes on? And also why does the e-brake levers travel distance shorten when I tighten up the brakes?

survivorman97 · 12-31-2009, 06:23 AM

Anyone know?

wyoming9 · 01-01-2010, 02:46 AM

The travel distance shortens because in essence you are changing the distance of the shoe and drum

Given you have it hooked up correct .

The amount of drag on the brakes could be measured by a torgue wrench or spring scale if one had the correct figures to compare.

i find if the you can turn the brake drum and hear and feel a slight drag you are close.

once you have both sides to this point I make sure the e-brake puts enough pressure that I am unable to turn the drums on both sides . Then I make sure they both release .

I will be doing one in a little while I will try and pay attention how I do it instead of letting muscle memory and the other guy do the work. You know the guy that drives for miles while you think of other things.

survivorman97 · 01-02-2010, 08:31 AM

Haha ok that would be great! So what I am thinking now is once it think I have them adjusted properly is it possible that my e-brake cable will now need to be adjusted? Or should it go back to about where it was before the new shoes? Right now aside for the pedal feeling different that is the only thing that has changed. Have you hade many that after new shoes the e-brake cable must then be tightened?

wyoming9 · 01-02-2010, 02:03 PM

If you have the brakes bleed correct .

From reading your first post in this thread you said the ebrake handle comes out further then before you changed shoes

Making me think the shoes are not adjusted up tight enough which would also cause your pedal travel to be longer and closer to the floor.

You don`t say if you have a 5 speed or Auto the ebrake should stall the truck when you try to pull out in a normal fashion .

With an automatic you will notice a big drag and it will take a whole lot more to pull out from a stop.

Then you know it is adjusted up correct . After the shoes are adjusted correct you then might want to look at cable adjustment.

survivorman97 · 01-05-2010, 01:37 PM

its a 5 speed. Ill have to give that a shot

wyoming9 · 01-06-2010, 03:31 PM

I got side tracked into a emergency loader bucket repair just as I drug all the brake job things out.

12-25-2009, 07:25 PM	#3 (permalink)
camo31"10.50" Registered User Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Vian, OK Posts: 3,621	i've heard somewhere that the E-brake plays a role in keeping the shoes adjusted but that's just what i've heard LOL. but yea do like yota8083 said, just drive in reverse (perty fast) on some black top or concrete and slam on the brakes, should adjust them after 2 or 3 times lol __________________ FOR SALE 1986 Ext. Cab 4x4, rebuilt 22R, 5spd, 31x10.50 X-Terrains FOR SALE 1992 SR5 4runner V6, 5 speed, 4in. trail-master lift, 33x12.50 BFG muds, 4.56 gears!!! and an IMMACULATE interior..yes..you should be jealous "Its still a toyota man.. Dont deprive it of its capabilities.." "If you can read english, Thank a teacher...If you can speak it, Thank a soldier!!" Kelli Ruark-2009

12-26-2009, 01:16 PM	#5 (permalink)
survivorman97 Registered User Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Missouri Posts: 156	Man that really bothers me that i may have not have put something back together right. I don't know how though? Is there anything that is commonly missed? What do you mean when you say I may have mixed up the adjusters? I think there is just one per side right? I think that they may still be too loose because I know that I did tighten one up too much and i had to loosen it and when I did that the e-brake lever went back to pulling out too far again. So as I see it know when I tighten the new shoes to the drums the lever gets tighter (fewer clicks to pull it out) and vice versa. I didnt check them to see if they where still in speck but nothing looked to bad, I mean how long would it honestly take to wear out brake drums in the rear? Also Wyoming when you said you tightened your till they wouldnt turn and then backed it off I assume you are using the little slit on the inner side of the drum, how do you loosen them? I see from the teeth on the adjuster that they are like a ratchet and are made to tighten only and if you want to loosen you have to stick a second screwdriver in and keep that plate off of the teeth. Whats the trick to that? If I do have them too loose why would i want to manually adjust them? Couldnt I just drive in reverse a bunch and eventually get them where they should be or is that just when there is a little tightening to do? I know everything is working because we have ice where I am now and I have seen the rears lock up when I slam the brakes on the slick surface. I sure hope I didnt mess something up.. thanks for the advice keep it coming __________________ 97 Tacoma 3.4 5-Speed 4X4, 31'' BFG ATs, Magnaflow, deckplate mod w/ K&N drop in filter, alpine cd deck, extended rear diff breather, spray-on bed liner, snugtop camper shell and about 230,000miles I have brand new jerry can seals for sale check it out here: http://www.yotatech.com/f109/brand-n...-seals-210512/

12-26-2009, 04:17 PM	#6 (permalink)
dark_fairytales Registered User Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: Sacramento, Crawlifonia Posts: 587	I have found with experience that toyota drum breaks like to be adjusted pretty damned tight. from your explanation it dose not sound like you did tighten the adjuster enough. it is not likely you put something in wrong, as im sure it would be noticeable. Just take a second look to see and while your at it if you drum comes off easy. you simply need to tighten your adjuster much more. you should also check your E-break adjuster due the the cable dose stretch over time. __________________ 86 longbed/ build date Sep. 85/ build # 1131 3" body lift 1.5" balljoint spacers 6.5" rear shackles Custom stock pick-up and tacoma leaf spring pack 35" tires/ 15x10 beadlocks 5.29 gears/ ARB rear/ lockrite ront Custom 3 gal. onboard AIR Cobra LT 29 CB/ wilson 1000 ant. next mod 3" drive train lift dual t-case sitting on my carpet waiting for install

12-29-2009, 12:53 PM	#8 (permalink)
survivorman97 Registered User Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Missouri Posts: 156	So I guess my main question now is how tight do they need to be? What is too tight and how can I tell. Is this something that can be measured with a torque wrench? Also I'm still not sure why my pedal feels so much different, could it be simply because there are new shoes on? And also why does the e-brake levers travel distance shorten when I tighten up the brakes? __________________ 97 Tacoma 3.4 5-Speed 4X4, 31'' BFG ATs, Magnaflow, deckplate mod w/ K&N drop in filter, alpine cd deck, extended rear diff breather, spray-on bed liner, snugtop camper shell and about 230,000miles I have brand new jerry can seals for sale check it out here: http://www.yotatech.com/f109/brand-n...-seals-210512/

12-31-2009, 06:23 AM	#9 (permalink)
survivorman97 Registered User Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Missouri Posts: 156	Anyone know? __________________ 97 Tacoma 3.4 5-Speed 4X4, 31'' BFG ATs, Magnaflow, deckplate mod w/ K&N drop in filter, alpine cd deck, extended rear diff breather, spray-on bed liner, snugtop camper shell and about 230,000miles I have brand new jerry can seals for sale check it out here: http://www.yotatech.com/f109/brand-n...-seals-210512/

12-25-2009, 07:15 PM	#2 (permalink)
yota8083 Registered User Join Date: Nov 2008 Posts: 150	Something doesnt sound like it is hooked up right in the drum. When you get new shoes if anything the e-brake should not pull as far and the pedal should be firmer. You may want to recheck all the springs and make sure nothing is binding in the drum. There should be a self adjusting mechanism in the drums. If so, it adjusts by drinving in reverse and hitting the breaks. Do this several times (drive in reverse, hit the breaks, drive forward, repeat) and you should slowly start to feel a firmer pedal if everything is hooked up correctly.

12-26-2009, 12:45 PM	#4 (permalink)
wyoming9 Contributing Member Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: I live in New Tripoli Pa out in the woods Posts: 490	Did you replace or measure the drums to see if they were still in spec. All Toyotas with rear drum brakes at least the ones I have worked on the ebrake keeps the the shoes adjusted up. So if you don`t use the ebrake the rear brakes are out of adjustment in no time You didn`t get the adjusters mixed up???. you have more bleeding to do Or you have not adjusted the shoes tight enough . I adjust mine up till till the drum won`t turn then back them off to it turns again Something you just need to get a feel for

12-26-2009, 11:47 PM	#7 (permalink)
wyoming9 Contributing Member Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: I live in New Tripoli Pa out in the woods Posts: 490	After doing a bunch of these vehicles. It gets to just be a habit most times I really don`t know the history so have no idea how long the drums have been on . i pretty much put new drums on since they seem to be all made in China anymore. Life of drums . It depends on how often they get over heated and of course metal to metal contact doesn`t help. Yes once you get used to loosening the adjusters using a screw driver to hold the arm off the gear so you can loosen the adjuster It is not bad I also back off the brakes like this before trying to remove the drum . I have seen people take both sides of the brakes off at once and get the adjusters mixed up. Th self adjusters only keep the shoes adjusted up once they are adjusted up to the correct tension

01-01-2010, 02:46 AM	#10 (permalink)
wyoming9 Contributing Member Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: I live in New Tripoli Pa out in the woods Posts: 490	The travel distance shortens because in essence you are changing the distance of the shoe and drum Given you have it hooked up correct . The amount of drag on the brakes could be measured by a torgue wrench or spring scale if one had the correct figures to compare. i find if the you can turn the brake drum and hear and feel a slight drag you are close. once you have both sides to this point I make sure the e-brake puts enough pressure that I am unable to turn the drums on both sides . Then I make sure they both release . I will be doing one in a little while I will try and pay attention how I do it instead of letting muscle memory and the other guy do the work. You know the guy that drives for miles while you think of other things.

01-02-2010, 08:31 AM	#11 (permalink)
survivorman97 Registered User Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Missouri Posts: 156	Haha ok that would be great! So what I am thinking now is once it think I have them adjusted properly is it possible that my e-brake cable will now need to be adjusted? Or should it go back to about where it was before the new shoes? Right now aside for the pedal feeling different that is the only thing that has changed. Have you hade many that after new shoes the e-brake cable must then be tightened? __________________ 97 Tacoma 3.4 5-Speed 4X4, 31'' BFG ATs, Magnaflow, deckplate mod w/ K&N drop in filter, alpine cd deck, extended rear diff breather, spray-on bed liner, snugtop camper shell and about 230,000miles I have brand new jerry can seals for sale check it out here: http://www.yotatech.com/f109/brand-n...-seals-210512/

01-02-2010, 02:03 PM	#12 (permalink)
wyoming9 Contributing Member Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: I live in New Tripoli Pa out in the woods Posts: 490	If you have the brakes bleed correct . From reading your first post in this thread you said the ebrake handle comes out further then before you changed shoes Making me think the shoes are not adjusted up tight enough which would also cause your pedal travel to be longer and closer to the floor. You don`t say if you have a 5 speed or Auto the ebrake should stall the truck when you try to pull out in a normal fashion . With an automatic you will notice a big drag and it will take a whole lot more to pull out from a stop. Then you know it is adjusted up correct . After the shoes are adjusted correct you then might want to look at cable adjustment.

01-05-2010, 01:37 PM	#13 (permalink)
survivorman97 Registered User Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Missouri Posts: 156	its a 5 speed. Ill have to give that a shot __________________ 97 Tacoma 3.4 5-Speed 4X4, 31'' BFG ATs, Magnaflow, deckplate mod w/ K&N drop in filter, alpine cd deck, extended rear diff breather, spray-on bed liner, snugtop camper shell and about 230,000miles I have brand new jerry can seals for sale check it out here: http://www.yotatech.com/f109/brand-n...-seals-210512/

01-06-2010, 03:31 PM	#14 (permalink)
wyoming9 Contributing Member Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: I live in New Tripoli Pa out in the woods Posts: 490	I got side tracked into a emergency loader bucket repair just as I drug all the brake job things out.

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