locking hubs better??

chop_suey · 02-12-2008, 01:03 PM

this question is out of curiosity:
whats better locking hubs like on the pickups or nonlocking like on the 4runners?
always wondered what the benefits were of locking hubs?

thanks guys

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bigt · 02-12-2008, 01:10 PM

less strain on your cvs... since with auto hubs the cvs always turning ...when you have manual locking hubs you can unlock them so the cvs wont spin, it is helpful if you mess up your front end on a trail.. if you dont have the front end will always turn and you might need a tow when if you had manual hubs you could get out an unlock them

Yodaforce · 02-12-2008, 01:11 PM

I like the simplicity and reliablity of a manual locking hub.

X-AWDriver · 02-12-2008, 01:15 PM

On the other hand I rarely ever read about issues with the auto hubs on any Toyota trucks no matter how many miles.

98sr5tacoma · 02-12-2008, 01:18 PM

for real? ive heard and seen plenty to know that manual hubs are better some america is just lazy and likes "luxury" thats why they make auto hubs, a.d.d. stuff like that f250s have manual hubs

WSUWESTON · 02-12-2008, 01:30 PM

I perfer manual for wheeling rigs, for a daily driver autos are really nice. It allows for me to be lazy and just hit the button.

4Crawler · 02-12-2008, 01:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WSUWESTON

I perfer manual for wheeling rigs, for a daily driver autos are really nice. It allows for me to be lazy and just hit the button.

There are actually 3 types of hubs, the manuals, the automatics and the Automatic Differential Disconnect (ADD) which uses drive flanges:
- http://www.off-road.com/offroad/arti....jsp?id=399668

They all have advantages and disadvantages depending on your point of view. The true automatic hubs automatically lock when you stop and shift into 4WD and unlock when you go back to 2WD. But they can be prone to acting up and not locking when they are supposed to and unlocking when they are not supposed to. One situation they are troublesome in is when you get stuck in 2WD and then shift into 4WD to try and get out. The automatics need to turn some fraction of a rotation to lock and if you are stuck to the point of not being able to move, the front end won't lock up.

The ADD setup has the advantage of shift on the fly (manual hubs can do this if you lock the hubs). But the disadvantages are that you have the CVs turning (and wearing) all the time and with more moving parts, the ADD can stop working. Usually a vacuum line or electrical switch issue.

hanksyota · 02-12-2008, 01:48 PM

might see a little better mpg with manual as well. trail repairs are easier.

RustBucket · 02-12-2008, 02:18 PM

We need to dispose of this myth that mpg changes if you go from ADD to manual hubs. Theoretically, sure. In practice, no. The ADD system keeps the CVs spinning but there is no wear on the rest of the front driveline. However, you would see a bit of mpg decrease if you had a non-ADD system and locked your hubs and drove around in 2WD mode. In that case the front diff is spinning as well as the driveshaft, just not mechanically coupled to the power. I know that with mine I can actually *feel* the engine having to work harder when I drive around that way.

hanksyota · 02-12-2008, 02:23 PM

i just know that w/ my manual hubs locked all winter i do see a decrease in mileage. i would assume that is because they are locked and essentially like an ADD vehicle. i suppose that lines up directly with what youre saying.

RustBucket · 02-12-2008, 02:27 PM

Yes it does. The ADD system is not just like the non-ADD with the hubs always locked. It actually disengages one of the half-shafts from the differential. Pretty cool, really.

AxleIke · 02-12-2008, 02:44 PM

My 4runner came with manual hubs stock. Lots of them did.

I like them because they don't spin anything. I don't think they help my mileage any. Just less wear and tear.

94Runner4x4 · 02-12-2008, 03:22 PM

I'm a little confused. I have auto hubs up front. If I were to go to manual would I have to engage them manually every time I want all 4 tires to spin?

X-AWDriver · 02-12-2008, 03:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 98sr5tacoma

for real? ive heard and seen plenty to know that manual hubs are better some america is just lazy and likes "luxury" thats why they make auto hubs, a.d.d. stuff like that f250s have manual hubs

Yes,you've seen plenty on how they are better but there's also no evidence auto hubs (on Toyotas at least) are bad either or have failure issues so I guess I like my chances with my auto hubs.

"I'm a little confused. I have auto hubs up front. If I were to go to manual would I have to engage them manually every time I want all 4 tires to spin?"

Yes,you'd be going backward in the evolution of technology and convenience.

AxleIke · 02-12-2008, 03:40 PM

Auto hubs are actually known to be quite weak, and crappy. They often unlock when you don't want them to.

Perhaps you all are referring to Drive Flanges. Those are not weak at all. They are essentially a manual hub with no moving parts. Very strong.

tc · 02-12-2008, 03:44 PM

Manual locking hubs provide a lot more options for getting off the trail.

ADD flanges are practically unbreakable. That's what I carry for my spares.

94Runner4x4 · 02-12-2008, 03:50 PM

when i get BJ spacers and 33's, would it save my cv's if i got manual hubs? because I've been told before it would but it it doesn't then there's no point?

tc · 02-12-2008, 03:53 PM

Of course it will, as the CV's won't be spinning when the hubs are unlocked, so there's no wear.

94Runner4x4 · 02-12-2008, 04:58 PM

Ok, so locked hubs in 2wd is like driving with 2wd with auto hubs. and unlocked 2wd would just be like having rear wheel drive?

bigt · 02-12-2008, 05:01 PM

you got it toyota!

4Crawler · 02-12-2008, 05:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 94Runner4x4

Ok, so locked hubs in 2wd is like driving with 2wd with auto hubs. and unlocked 2wd would just be like having rear wheel drive?

Automatic hubs unlock in 2WD. So unlocked auto hubs or unlocked manual hubs is exactly like a 2WD, the front axles/diff and driveshaft just sit there and do nothing. With ADD, the front axles turn in 2WD, but the diff and front driveshaft do not.

RobD · 02-12-2008, 05:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 94Runner4x4

Ok, so locked hubs in 2wd is like driving with 2wd with auto hubs. and unlocked 2wd would just be like having rear wheel drive?

It depends on if you're talking auto hubs vs. the A.D.D. If you're talking about running an A.D.D. system, the hubs are always attached. What happens when you pull the transfer case lever is a switch engages something called VSVs (vacuum switching valves), which allow a vacuum line connected to an actuator at your front differential to engage a sleeve. This sleeve connects your driver side front axle to the front diff. When you switch to 2WD, the another VSV actuates and slides this sleeve off, essentially unhooking your driver side axle. Your passenger side stays engaged, but because your front differential is "open", it only rotates one side of your front gears. However, both CV joints continue to spin.

If you convert from an A.D.D. system to manual hubs (Aisin or Warns are common), engaging the hubs plus the transfer case will engage 4WD. If you disengage your hubs, you'll still have power to your front diff, but no 4WD. If you leave your front hubs locked, but disengage 4WD, you will be rotating your front axle, but will have nothing else. On the plus side, you would be able to unlock your hubs and engage 4WD low, meaning you'd have rear wheel drive, low range. Not sure why you would, but you could.

Now, some of us have chosen to eliminate the whole VSV system for simplicity and ease of maintenance. More valves and vacuum lines usually means more to go wrong. Or, in my case, after swapping to a bigger engine, I didn't want to be bothered with rerouting lines, so I simply yanked all the VSV stuff out and connected a vacuum line to the actuator on my front diff, leaving it locked in all the time. To engage 4WD, I leave my hubs locked and simply switch the lever in and out as need be. If the roads are dry for any length of time, I leave them disengaged. I notice zero difference in fuel economy, but I do notice a bit more of a "drag" while driving. Mostly it feels like there is more mass turning, which there is.

http://www.4x4wire.com/toyota/tech/add/
http://www.yotatech.com/~corey/tech/.../matt_hubs.htm
http://www.4x4wire.com/toyota/tech/autohub/

n16ht5 · 02-14-2008, 09:51 AM

i keep my ADD because you will never break a drive flange... and its shift on the fly when I am going up the pass to go skiing. even AISIN hubs break

CJM · 02-14-2008, 10:17 AM

Auto hubs suck b/c they can unlock in reverse, I hate them.

Manual hubs work great b/c you can control when you want them locked. Very little can go wrong and you can rebuild them if they break or buy new ones. Engage one side of the front drivetrain so you can turn if you have a locker. If you got a locker up front you shut off the hubs and no more locker, you want 2wd hi/lo you dont lock the hubs (usefull on rocks sometimes.)

ADD isnt bad but has more than can go wrong..

Overall I have manual hubs on my T100 and love them. The mpg stuff is bs imho.

02-12-2008, 01:10 PM	#2 (permalink)
bigt Registered User Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: chippawa niagara falls ontario Posts: 3,200	less strain on your cvs... since with auto hubs the cvs always turning ...when you have manual locking hubs you can unlock them so the cvs wont spin, it is helpful if you mess up your front end on a trail.. if you dont have the front end will always turn and you might need a tow when if you had manual hubs you could get out an unlock them __________________ 1991 HILUX SURF SSR-X turbo diesel right hand drive toyota imported in 2005 from japan, 130,000 km 31 bfg a/t auto current build 1987 LWB suzuki samurai. turning 2 into one.. yota axles welded front to back, yota springs , ifs steering box,, this bad boy will not only eat jeeps but toyotas aswell \m/

02-12-2008, 01:11 PM	#3 (permalink)
Yodaforce Registered User Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: West NC Posts: 284	I like the simplicity and reliablity of a manual locking hub. __________________ "Diverse-Customs" Hot Rods, Street Rods, Custom audio and video installation, sheet metal fabrication, tube work, bumpers, lift kits, just about any kind of custom work imaginable! Visit us at Diverse-Customs.com

02-12-2008, 01:15 PM	#4 (permalink)
X-AWDriver Contributing Member Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Littleton,CO Posts: 10,174	On the other hand I rarely ever read about issues with the auto hubs on any Toyota trucks no matter how many miles. __________________ '99 4Runner Highlander 4wd E-locker,rear diff and deckplate mod * 265/75/16 Nitto TerraGrapplers * Yakima Load Warrior rack * clear corners/signals * Tacoma skidplate * Silverstar lamps/fogs Alpine CDA-9831,Bazooka EL Series 250w amp,MTX 10" sub

02-12-2008, 01:18 PM	#5 (permalink)
98sr5tacoma Registered User Join Date: Jan 2007 Posts: 168	for real? ive heard and seen plenty to know that manual hubs are better some america is just lazy and likes "luxury" thats why they make auto hubs, a.d.d. stuff like that f250s have manual hubs __________________ 1998 tacoma

02-12-2008, 01:30 PM	#6 (permalink)
WSUWESTON Registered User Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Vancouver, Wa Posts: 440	I perfer manual for wheeling rigs, for a daily driver autos are really nice. It allows for me to be lazy and just hit the button. __________________ 82 Shortbed with 22r, weber 32/36, civic seats, bedlined interior, 31” LTB’s

02-12-2008, 01:48 PM	#8 (permalink)
hanksyota Registered User Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: denver, co Posts: 421	might see a little better mpg with manual as well. trail repairs are easier. __________________ i support ric being banned.

02-12-2008, 02:18 PM	#9 (permalink)
RustBucket Registered User Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Cumming, GA Posts: 977	We need to dispose of this myth that mpg changes if you go from ADD to manual hubs. Theoretically, sure. In practice, no. The ADD system keeps the CVs spinning but there is no wear on the rest of the front driveline. However, you would see a bit of mpg decrease if you had a non-ADD system and locked your hubs and drove around in 2WD mode. In that case the front diff is spinning as well as the driveshaft, just not mechanically coupled to the power. I know that with mine I can actually feel the engine having to work harder when I drive around that way. __________________ Rust-Free '88 Runner. Stay-at-home truck.

02-12-2008, 02:23 PM	#10 (permalink)
hanksyota Registered User Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: denver, co Posts: 421	i just know that w/ my manual hubs locked all winter i do see a decrease in mileage. i would assume that is because they are locked and essentially like an ADD vehicle. i suppose that lines up directly with what youre saying. __________________ i support ric being banned.

02-12-2008, 02:27 PM	#11 (permalink)
RustBucket Registered User Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Cumming, GA Posts: 977	Yes it does. The ADD system is not just like the non-ADD with the hubs always locked. It actually disengages one of the half-shafts from the differential. Pretty cool, really. __________________ Rust-Free '88 Runner. Stay-at-home truck.

02-12-2008, 02:44 PM	#12 (permalink)
AxleIke Contributing Member Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Boulder, Colorado Posts: 4,887	My 4runner came with manual hubs stock. Lots of them did. I like them because they don't spin anything. I don't think they help my mileage any. Just less wear and tear. __________________ 1987 Mutant 4runner\|Slightly Modified\|Lacking general build direction -Lifts and Tires look cool at the Mall, Lockers and Gears look cool on the trail. -Internet Nice Guy

02-12-2008, 03:22 PM	#13 (permalink)
94Runner4x4 Registered User Join Date: May 2006 Location: Lawrenceville/Statesboro, GA Posts: 628	I'm a little confused. I have auto hubs up front. If I were to go to manual would I have to engage them manually every time I want all 4 tires to spin? __________________ FOR SALE-95 4Runner 4x4 - 33x12.50 BFG's, Marlin Crawler Rear Bumper, Herculined Tailgate/Rocker Panels, All Chrome (Mirrors, Windshield Trim, Door Handles, License Plate Frame, and Grill) painted black, 1" 4Crawler Body Lift, 15x8 Cragar Wheels, 1 Regular Transmission Cooler (in-series with stock AT Cooler), Old Man Emu Rear Lift Coils, 4" Panhard Drop Bracket, Rear Pro Comp Shocks, BJ Spacers, Front SkyJacker Shocks, 1" Differential and Sway Bar Drop Kit FOR SALE-93 4Runner 4x4

02-12-2008, 03:40 PM	#15 (permalink)
AxleIke Contributing Member Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Boulder, Colorado Posts: 4,887	Auto hubs are actually known to be quite weak, and crappy. They often unlock when you don't want them to. Perhaps you all are referring to Drive Flanges. Those are not weak at all. They are essentially a manual hub with no moving parts. Very strong. __________________ 1987 Mutant 4runner\|Slightly Modified\|Lacking general build direction -Lifts and Tires look cool at the Mall, Lockers and Gears look cool on the trail. -Internet Nice Guy

02-12-2008, 03:44 PM	#16 (permalink)
tc Contributing Member Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Longmont, CO Posts: 8,372	Manual locking hubs provide a lot more options for getting off the trail. ADD flanges are practically unbreakable. That's what I carry for my spares. __________________ Check out www.coTTORA.org to hook up with great Toyota 'wheelin' folks! Current - 93 4Runner: 3VZ 33"x10.50" no lift ARB F/R 96 Impala SS: My own personal cop car Previous - 89 2WD Pickup 22R, Fabtech "Ivan Dan" lift, 31x10.50, IASCA World Finals 4th Place Stop with the mods and get on the trail! Pix at www.4wheelingoh.shutterfly.com/action

02-12-2008, 03:50 PM	#17 (permalink)
94Runner4x4 Registered User Join Date: May 2006 Location: Lawrenceville/Statesboro, GA Posts: 628	when i get BJ spacers and 33's, would it save my cv's if i got manual hubs? because I've been told before it would but it it doesn't then there's no point? __________________ FOR SALE-95 4Runner 4x4 - 33x12.50 BFG's, Marlin Crawler Rear Bumper, Herculined Tailgate/Rocker Panels, All Chrome (Mirrors, Windshield Trim, Door Handles, License Plate Frame, and Grill) painted black, 1" 4Crawler Body Lift, 15x8 Cragar Wheels, 1 Regular Transmission Cooler (in-series with stock AT Cooler), Old Man Emu Rear Lift Coils, 4" Panhard Drop Bracket, Rear Pro Comp Shocks, BJ Spacers, Front SkyJacker Shocks, 1" Differential and Sway Bar Drop Kit FOR SALE-93 4Runner 4x4

02-12-2008, 03:53 PM	#18 (permalink)
tc Contributing Member Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Longmont, CO Posts: 8,372	Of course it will, as the CV's won't be spinning when the hubs are unlocked, so there's no wear. __________________ Check out www.coTTORA.org to hook up with great Toyota 'wheelin' folks! Current - 93 4Runner: 3VZ 33"x10.50" no lift ARB F/R 96 Impala SS: My own personal cop car Previous - 89 2WD Pickup 22R, Fabtech "Ivan Dan" lift, 31x10.50, IASCA World Finals 4th Place Stop with the mods and get on the trail! Pix at www.4wheelingoh.shutterfly.com/action

02-12-2008, 04:58 PM	#19 (permalink)
94Runner4x4 Registered User Join Date: May 2006 Location: Lawrenceville/Statesboro, GA Posts: 628	Ok, so locked hubs in 2wd is like driving with 2wd with auto hubs. and unlocked 2wd would just be like having rear wheel drive? __________________ FOR SALE-95 4Runner 4x4 - 33x12.50 BFG's, Marlin Crawler Rear Bumper, Herculined Tailgate/Rocker Panels, All Chrome (Mirrors, Windshield Trim, Door Handles, License Plate Frame, and Grill) painted black, 1" 4Crawler Body Lift, 15x8 Cragar Wheels, 1 Regular Transmission Cooler (in-series with stock AT Cooler), Old Man Emu Rear Lift Coils, 4" Panhard Drop Bracket, Rear Pro Comp Shocks, BJ Spacers, Front SkyJacker Shocks, 1" Differential and Sway Bar Drop Kit FOR SALE-93 4Runner 4x4

02-12-2008, 05:01 PM	#20 (permalink)
bigt Registered User Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: chippawa niagara falls ontario Posts: 3,200	you got it toyota! __________________ 1991 HILUX SURF SSR-X turbo diesel right hand drive toyota imported in 2005 from japan, 130,000 km 31 bfg a/t auto current build 1987 LWB suzuki samurai. turning 2 into one.. yota axles welded front to back, yota springs , ifs steering box,, this bad boy will not only eat jeeps but toyotas aswell \m/

02-14-2008, 09:51 AM	#23 (permalink)
n16ht5 Registered User Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Bellevue, WA Posts: 257	i keep my ADD because you will never break a drive flange... and its shift on the fly when I am going up the pass to go skiing. even AISIN hubs break

02-14-2008, 10:17 AM	#24 (permalink)
CJM Registered User Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Central NJ Posts: 4,561	Auto hubs suck b/c they can unlock in reverse, I hate them. Manual hubs work great b/c you can control when you want them locked. Very little can go wrong and you can rebuild them if they break or buy new ones. Engage one side of the front drivetrain so you can turn if you have a locker. If you got a locker up front you shut off the hubs and no more locker, you want 2wd hi/lo you dont lock the hubs (usefull on rocks sometimes.) ADD isnt bad but has more than can go wrong.. Overall I have manual hubs on my T100 and love them. The mpg stuff is bs imho. __________________ 96' T100 SR5 4x4, ISR mod, Custom ABS snorkel, KC 57's Hella optilux el cheapo backup lights. Cobra 19III CB, Firestick 4ft antenna, Bilstein shocks. Be polite. Be professional. But, have a plan to kill everyone you meet.

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