how much is reasonable to run off my battery/alternator

murdarunna19 · 09-29-2008, 07:07 AM

i was wondering if anyone has an idea of when i need to get a larger power source. though not all of it is installed here is the list. 400 watt amp, 2 12 in subs. rms on those is about 300. then want to run 4 foglights (similar to kc daylighters) or some 500's. after that i may install 2 more speakers in the far back. and from there the list goes on to small things like gps, and jus small things to charge in the 12 volt.
i was worried about this in my old car and now i jus wanna make sure the runner has a safe balance and isnt about to blow. one thing i did to help is i bought a capacitor for the subs and it works great.

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slisdexia · 09-29-2008, 08:30 AM

You could also buy a second cap, if you're gonna keep adding stuff. I know the guys that compete (audio) do that. I'd look into getting a higher output alt soon. Otherwise things aren't going to work right when you start adding all the toys weird stuff will happen, ie truck will run like crap and you can't figure out why. If you push it too hard, and I don't think you will with just that stuff, you can mess up your computer. Haven't heard of that happening often but it can happen.

drpdmazda · 09-29-2008, 07:04 PM

with a smaller amp like that and a few fog lights you shouldnt see any issues with electrical but if you want to continue to add things find out what the amperage draw is on each item VS the amperage rating on your battery. as stated you can add a high amp alternator. i would stay away from multiple caps, you definately dont need two full capacitors for one 400 watt amp. the caps will only benefit your electrical system if it is related to your audio or in line with the caps. you may want to research doing a second battery and a battery isolator if you plan on running several electrical items especially if multiple items will be used at one time. you can get a deep cycle battery large enough to do most if not all of your add on items for realtively cheap, also a battery isolator can be purchased pretty cheap on ebay. hope that helps you a little bit. your maximum amperage draw on the amp will be the total amount of fuses on the amp. also eaiest way to find out amps true max power is to take the fuse ratings and multiply them by 14.4 ( example two 20 amp fuses = 40 amps multiply by 14.4 = 576 watts max power ) the most voltage your battery will safely ever see is 14.4 and when multiplied by your fuses total amperage it will give you the most power truly possible

jason

drpdmazda · 09-29-2008, 07:05 PM

also go on to www.caraudio.com and search for " the big 3 " that tells you how to upgrade your battery, alternator and ground wires to make your system run more efficeintly as well

tc · 09-29-2008, 07:59 PM

If you take the watts of the amp and the lightbulbs add them up and divide by 12, that will give you the current draw. The reason I say 12V is because it accounts to some degree that your alternator doesn't put out much power at idle.

What model truck are we talking about here? The pre-95 rigs only had a 60A alternator. Figure 1/2 of that is taken to run the vehicle, leaving you only 30A to safely run accessories. With lights, that adds up QUICK.

The battery or capacitor take care of brief surges in the power draw. The big difference is that a cap charges and discharges MUCH faster than a battery and therefore does a better job of smoothing out the power flow. In the end, though, all that energy comes from the alternator, and if you pull more than the alternator puts out, it's only a matter of time before the truck dies.

RobD · 09-29-2008, 08:15 PM

Capacitors are a myth. They will do nothing for a poor electrical system. As was mentioned, upgrade your big three. Do the battery, power leads, and alternator. Save your money by not wasting it on a cap and put it into something useful.

tc · 09-29-2008, 08:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RobD

Capacitors are a myth. They will do nothing for a poor electrical system. As was mentioned, upgrade your big three. Do the battery, power leads, and alternator. Save your money by not wasting it on a cap and put it into something useful.

Absolutely untrue. Capacitors absolutely help smooth the flow of the energy, helping the amp to deliver full power during dynamic transients. They do NOT create energy, just help store it and then discharge it quickly when needed. They will not help much on steady draws like lights, but are absolutely vital for dynamic loads like amplifiers - hell, that's why they're built into every amp!

Oh, and there's an IASCA World Championship backing up this experience of mine ...

Bassmastry101 · 09-29-2008, 08:41 PM

I have a 1000w amp pushing 2 500 rms audiobahn 12s. Buy a Optima Red top or a Yellow Top if your more for audio. I went a little overboard on the cap and got a 5 farad only on a 1000w amp, but they do have a massive effect on the power. Before the cap when my system hit, it would dim the dash lights to hardly visible, now i dont even see them flicker. But it does have an effect on ur alternator always drawing power from your battery, im about to go through my 3rd alt this year so upgrade that too.

tc · 09-29-2008, 08:45 PM

You have something else wrong to be killing alternators like that. See above about "Big 3". Or maybe you're getting mud in them? (you DO live in that part of the country! LOL)

Send your dead one to Boyle Future Tech in CA and have it upgraded instead of getting a "new" one.

Bassmastry101 · 09-29-2008, 08:53 PM

i just keep renewing the year warranty from the parts store everytime i need a new one every 6 months

but really its the cap i got and i also play my system really loud all the time. Theres nothing like rattling the old ladies mirrors at the red lights.

tc · 09-29-2008, 08:56 PM

I used to do that too ... now I can hardly hear anything ... turn it down before it's too late!

murdarunna19 · 09-29-2008, 09:56 PM

haha no i havent had problems YET im just trying to prepare before i add too much. but i already have a cap so i might as well use it. but it sounds like the best idea is just to get an alternator that can handle more. i have a 2000 runner. any specific ideas on good prices for a good product? (ive never really looked into alternators so forgive the questions) thanks for all the great ideas though guys, real helpful!

krepas · 09-29-2008, 11:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tc

Absolutely untrue. Capacitors absolutely help smooth the flow of the energy, helping the amp to deliver full power during dynamic transients. They do NOT create energy, just help store it and then discharge it quickly when needed. They will not help much on steady draws like lights, but are absolutely vital for dynamic loads like amplifiers - hell, that's why they're built into every amp!

Oh, and there's an IASCA World Championship backing up this experience of mine ...

X2

Capacitors helps alot in audio system...

RobD · 09-30-2008, 11:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tc

Absolutely untrue. Capacitors absolutely help smooth the flow of the energy, helping the amp to deliver full power during dynamic transients. They do NOT create energy, just help store it and then discharge it quickly when needed. They will not help much on steady draws like lights, but are absolutely vital for dynamic loads like amplifiers - hell, that's why they're built into every amp!

Oh, and there's an IASCA World Championship backing up this experience of mine ...

Re-read my post. Capacitors will do nothing for a poor electrical system. If he is already underpowered, a cap will not help. What part of this is untrue?

He is better off upgrading alternator and battery. When the cap discharges to "help smooth power flow", what is it, exactly, that replenishes the capacitor? Power from the battery. If the battery is weak, the capacitor won't make up for it. In fact, it will take longer to recycle since the battery will be unable to make up for the cap's current demands, potentially making things work worse than before.

drpdmazda · 09-30-2008, 04:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bassmastry101

I have a 1000w amp pushing 2 500 rms audiobahn 12s. Buy a Optima Red top or a Yellow Top if your more for audio. I went a little overboard on the cap and got a 5 farad only on a 1000w amp, but they do have a massive effect on the power. Before the cap when my system hit, it would dim the dash lights to hardly visible, now i dont even see them flicker. But it does have an effect on ur alternator always drawing power from your battery, im about to go through my 3rd alt this year so upgrade that too.

in my opinion optimas are overpriced paper weights, every optima i have ever had has taken a on me, get an oddysey or some other type of deep cycle dont waste your money on an optima. overpriced, overrated and over glorified if you ask me

tc · 09-30-2008, 06:33 PM

There are WAY too many factors to make such a blanket statement, including what kind of music you're listening to at the time. If your mean power consumption is at or below the alternator output, you're golden. Yes, if your mean consumption is beyond what the alternator can provide, you got problems. Which is exactly what I stated in post 5.

murdarunna19 · 09-30-2008, 07:07 PM

ok sounds good thats for the input! ill try and find a solid source that will never have me worrying about running down the electrical

Bassmastry101 · 09-30-2008, 07:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by drpdmazda

in my opinion optimas are overpriced paper weights, every optima i have ever had has taken a on me, get an oddysey or some other type of deep cycle dont waste your money on an optima. overpriced, overrated and over glorified if you ask me

actually i picked my red top up for about $130..comparing to the halfway decent batteries at about 90 bucks so i thought it was a good deal. They usually run over 200 and i havent been able to kill mine yet after 2 years.
Odyssey looks pretty good, do you know if there is a dealer near GA?

scuba · 09-30-2008, 07:31 PM

Honestly, you may want to consider getting a bigger amp.
from what i understand your installing this on a buddys truck or something??
or is this your stuff..
Anyway, I have 2 kicker tens, peak is 300, I have a kicker 300 watt amp, but when both subs are plugged in it sounds like its suffocating.
Unplugged one and it sounds alot better
im looking for like a 500 watt amp to power them both better

drpdmazda · 09-30-2008, 09:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bassmastry101

actually i picked my red top up for about $130..comparing to the halfway decent batteries at about 90 bucks so i thought it was a good deal. They usually run over 200 and i havent been able to kill mine yet after 2 years.
Odyssey looks pretty good, do you know if there is a dealer near GA?

check out ebay, i usually have good luck with deep cycle batteries on ebay

drpdmazda · 09-30-2008, 09:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by scuba

Honestly, you may want to consider getting a bigger amp.
from what i understand your installing this on a buddys truck or something??
or is this your stuff..
Anyway, I have 2 kicker tens, peak is 300, I have a kicker 300 watt amp, but when both subs are plugged in it sounds like its suffocating.
Unplugged one and it sounds alot better
im looking for like a 500 watt amp to power them both better

*** sorry to thread jack ***

i have a cadence 400 watt mono block amp that was in my old runner that would push those subs pretty nicely. cosmetically it isnt the pretiest but it works 100% message me if your interested so i dont continue to jack this thread

tc · 09-30-2008, 09:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bassmastry101

Odyssey looks pretty good, do you know if there is a dealer near GA?

Any Sears - the DieHard Platinum are Odyssey batteries

camo31"10.50" · 09-30-2008, 09:29 PM

i have a single 12" Xplod with a 750W amp in the back of my 86' 4x4 PU..im also running a jensen head unit.6.5" door speakers..(jensen) and 2 6x9 Xplod's in the rear...doesnt have ANY effect on my trucks battery power either..i've ran the stereo for HOURS...WITHOUT the truck on..then the truck would start right up...and even when im going down the road.it doesnt dim any of my lights...even hooked up a battery meter (like what most vehicles come stock with...theres a name for it...just slips my mind at the moment) and it never even moved..stayed where it should..as if my system wasnt even doing anything..and if your sitting inside the truck..the bass is so intense it makes the wax in your ears kinda start to come out..it vibrates your throat..tickles your nose..but gives a GREAT back massage in the passenger seat..lol..since my sub is RIGHT behind it..lol

09-29-2008, 08:30 AM	#2 (permalink)
slisdexia Registered User Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Fort Collins, Colorado Posts: 380	You could also buy a second cap, if you're gonna keep adding stuff. I know the guys that compete (audio) do that. I'd look into getting a higher output alt soon. Otherwise things aren't going to work right when you start adding all the toys weird stuff will happen, ie truck will run like crap and you can't figure out why. If you push it too hard, and I don't think you will with just that stuff, you can mess up your computer. Haven't heard of that happening often but it can happen. __________________ I blame the automatic transmission for the wussification of America 1983 Toyota Pickup. 22r, 5 spd, 4x4, totally sweet chrome steelies and 31x1050 mud kings, and now an Aussie Locker.

09-29-2008, 07:59 PM	#5 (permalink)
tc Contributing Member Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Longmont, CO Posts: 8,372	If you take the watts of the amp and the lightbulbs add them up and divide by 12, that will give you the current draw. The reason I say 12V is because it accounts to some degree that your alternator doesn't put out much power at idle. What model truck are we talking about here? The pre-95 rigs only had a 60A alternator. Figure 1/2 of that is taken to run the vehicle, leaving you only 30A to safely run accessories. With lights, that adds up QUICK. The battery or capacitor take care of brief surges in the power draw. The big difference is that a cap charges and discharges MUCH faster than a battery and therefore does a better job of smoothing out the power flow. In the end, though, all that energy comes from the alternator, and if you pull more than the alternator puts out, it's only a matter of time before the truck dies. __________________ Check out www.coTTORA.org to hook up with great Toyota 'wheelin' folks! Current - 93 4Runner: 3VZ 33"x10.50" no lift ARB F/R 96 Impala SS: My own personal cop car Previous - 89 2WD Pickup 22R, Fabtech "Ivan Dan" lift, 31x10.50, IASCA World Finals 4th Place Stop with the mods and get on the trail! Pix at www.4wheelingoh.shutterfly.com/action

09-29-2008, 08:15 PM	#6 (permalink)
RobD Registered User Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Calgary, AB Posts: 1,726	Capacitors are a myth. They will do nothing for a poor electrical system. As was mentioned, upgrade your big three. Do the battery, power leads, and alternator. Save your money by not wasting it on a cap and put it into something useful. __________________ 1991 4Runner, 3.4 5VZFE swap, OME shocks/springs, 33" BFG All Terrain T/A KOs, Pioneer head unit, Infinity speakers, XM Satellite radio

09-29-2008, 08:45 PM	#9 (permalink)
tc Contributing Member Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Longmont, CO Posts: 8,372	You have something else wrong to be killing alternators like that. See above about "Big 3". Or maybe you're getting mud in them? (you DO live in that part of the country! LOL) Send your dead one to Boyle Future Tech in CA and have it upgraded instead of getting a "new" one. __________________ Check out www.coTTORA.org to hook up with great Toyota 'wheelin' folks! Current - 93 4Runner: 3VZ 33"x10.50" no lift ARB F/R 96 Impala SS: My own personal cop car Previous - 89 2WD Pickup 22R, Fabtech "Ivan Dan" lift, 31x10.50, IASCA World Finals 4th Place Stop with the mods and get on the trail! Pix at www.4wheelingoh.shutterfly.com/action

09-29-2008, 08:56 PM	#11 (permalink)
tc Contributing Member Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Longmont, CO Posts: 8,372	I used to do that too ... now I can hardly hear anything ... turn it down before it's too late! __________________ Check out www.coTTORA.org to hook up with great Toyota 'wheelin' folks! Current - 93 4Runner: 3VZ 33"x10.50" no lift ARB F/R 96 Impala SS: My own personal cop car Previous - 89 2WD Pickup 22R, Fabtech "Ivan Dan" lift, 31x10.50, IASCA World Finals 4th Place Stop with the mods and get on the trail! Pix at www.4wheelingoh.shutterfly.com/action

09-29-2008, 07:04 PM	#3 (permalink)
drpdmazda Registered User Join Date: Apr 2006 Posts: 250	with a smaller amp like that and a few fog lights you shouldnt see any issues with electrical but if you want to continue to add things find out what the amperage draw is on each item VS the amperage rating on your battery. as stated you can add a high amp alternator. i would stay away from multiple caps, you definately dont need two full capacitors for one 400 watt amp. the caps will only benefit your electrical system if it is related to your audio or in line with the caps. you may want to research doing a second battery and a battery isolator if you plan on running several electrical items especially if multiple items will be used at one time. you can get a deep cycle battery large enough to do most if not all of your add on items for realtively cheap, also a battery isolator can be purchased pretty cheap on ebay. hope that helps you a little bit. your maximum amperage draw on the amp will be the total amount of fuses on the amp. also eaiest way to find out amps true max power is to take the fuse ratings and multiply them by 14.4 ( example two 20 amp fuses = 40 amps multiply by 14.4 = 576 watts max power ) the most voltage your battery will safely ever see is 14.4 and when multiplied by your fuses total amperage it will give you the most power truly possible jason

09-29-2008, 07:05 PM	#4 (permalink)
drpdmazda Registered User Join Date: Apr 2006 Posts: 250	also go on to www.caraudio.com and search for " the big 3 " that tells you how to upgrade your battery, alternator and ground wires to make your system run more efficeintly as well

09-29-2008, 08:41 PM	#8 (permalink)
Bassmastry101 Registered User Join Date: May 2008 Location: Gainesville, GA Posts: 25	I have a 1000w amp pushing 2 500 rms audiobahn 12s. Buy a Optima Red top or a Yellow Top if your more for audio. I went a little overboard on the cap and got a 5 farad only on a 1000w amp, but they do have a massive effect on the power. Before the cap when my system hit, it would dim the dash lights to hardly visible, now i dont even see them flicker. But it does have an effect on ur alternator always drawing power from your battery, im about to go through my 3rd alt this year so upgrade that too.

09-29-2008, 08:53 PM	#10 (permalink)
Bassmastry101 Registered User Join Date: May 2008 Location: Gainesville, GA Posts: 25	i just keep renewing the year warranty from the parts store everytime i need a new one every 6 months but really its the cap i got and i also play my system really loud all the time. Theres nothing like rattling the old ladies mirrors at the red lights.

09-29-2008, 09:56 PM	#12 (permalink)
murdarunna19 Registered User Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: seattle Posts: 328	haha no i havent had problems YET im just trying to prepare before i add too much. but i already have a cap so i might as well use it. but it sounds like the best idea is just to get an alternator that can handle more. i have a 2000 runner. any specific ideas on good prices for a good product? (ive never really looked into alternators so forgive the questions) thanks for all the great ideas though guys, real helpful! __________________ Matt D 2000 4runner. supercharged, flowmaster, 3" toytec lift, sitting on BFG 33's. 2009 fj, arb bumper, warn winch, bfg ats, 2" lift, IPFs. 4runner Build - http://www.yotatech.com/f191/murdaru...thread-190270/

09-30-2008, 06:33 PM	#16 (permalink)
tc Contributing Member Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Longmont, CO Posts: 8,372	There are WAY too many factors to make such a blanket statement, including what kind of music you're listening to at the time. If your mean power consumption is at or below the alternator output, you're golden. Yes, if your mean consumption is beyond what the alternator can provide, you got problems. Which is exactly what I stated in post 5. __________________ Check out www.coTTORA.org to hook up with great Toyota 'wheelin' folks! Current - 93 4Runner: 3VZ 33"x10.50" no lift ARB F/R 96 Impala SS: My own personal cop car Previous - 89 2WD Pickup 22R, Fabtech "Ivan Dan" lift, 31x10.50, IASCA World Finals 4th Place Stop with the mods and get on the trail! Pix at www.4wheelingoh.shutterfly.com/action

09-30-2008, 07:07 PM	#17 (permalink)
murdarunna19 Registered User Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: seattle Posts: 328	ok sounds good thats for the input! ill try and find a solid source that will never have me worrying about running down the electrical __________________ Matt D 2000 4runner. supercharged, flowmaster, 3" toytec lift, sitting on BFG 33's. 2009 fj, arb bumper, warn winch, bfg ats, 2" lift, IPFs. 4runner Build - http://www.yotatech.com/f191/murdaru...thread-190270/

09-30-2008, 07:31 PM	#19 (permalink)
scuba Registered User Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: WHEELIN BIG BEAR Posts: 6,968	Honestly, you may want to consider getting a bigger amp. from what i understand your installing this on a buddys truck or something?? or is this your stuff.. Anyway, I have 2 kicker tens, peak is 300, I have a kicker 300 watt amp, but when both subs are plugged in it sounds like its suffocating. Unplugged one and it sounds alot better im looking for like a 500 watt amp to power them both better __________________ Screw you guys I'm goin to TTORA Mods, please be mature and leave my sig alone, thanks. No, I will not be your friend.

09-30-2008, 09:29 PM	#23 (permalink)
camo31"10.50" Registered User Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Vian, OK Posts: 2,064	i have a single 12" Xplod with a 750W amp in the back of my 86' 4x4 PU..im also running a jensen head unit.6.5" door speakers..(jensen) and 2 6x9 Xplod's in the rear...doesnt have ANY effect on my trucks battery power either..i've ran the stereo for HOURS...WITHOUT the truck on..then the truck would start right up...and even when im going down the road.it doesnt dim any of my lights...even hooked up a battery meter (like what most vehicles come stock with...theres a name for it...just slips my mind at the moment) and it never even moved..stayed where it should..as if my system wasnt even doing anything..and if your sitting inside the truck..the bass is so intense it makes the wax in your ears kinda start to come out..it vibrates your throat..tickles your nose..but gives a GREAT back massage in the passenger seat..lol..since my sub is RIGHT behind it..lol __________________ FOR SALE 1986 Ext. Cab 4x4, rebuilt 22R, 5spd, 31x10.50 X-Terrains FOR SALE 1992 SR5 FO RUNNA V6, 5 speed, 4in. trail-master lift, 33x12.50 BFG muds, 4.56 gears!!! and an IMMACULATE interior..yes..you should be jealous "Its still a toyota man.. Dont deprive it of its capabilities.." "If you can read english, Thank a teacher...If you can speak it, Thank a soldier!!" Kelli Ruark-2009

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