help Doing a SAS with least lift?

ATVTRAILRIDER · 11-04-2009, 08:21 PM

I have an 86 pickup and I am getting ready to do a SAS on it. I want as little lift as possible for low center of gravity with 37 - 40 inch tires for rock crawling and general trail riding.

I have a shop and don't mind doing fab work to do it right. If I can use prefab parts to save time etc that is ok but not if the end result is not as good.

So what are the issues?

It seems most of the SAS kits drop the front hangers too low?

I hear about steering issues if the lift is too low?

Are rear toyota springs on the front the best for a low lift?

How far should the axle be moved forward?

How much travel can you get with minimal lift and do you end up with no up travel? That does not sound good?

I am sure others have done this also, were you successful and happy with the end result?

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1993YotaRunner · 11-04-2009, 09:47 PM

I am just starting my SAS. Plan on doing as low of lift as possible. I am doing the 51 inch rear leafs up front, and 63 inch chevy's out back.

That combination will give you great flex and articulation.

As far as up travel, i am pretty sure you will have enough. The 51 inch RUF will max out a 14 inch shock.

With low lift i am going to do 1.5 inch body lift to do a slight tummy tuck on the transmission. Helps with the driveshaft angle and with clearence for rocks.. brush.... ect.

Definently going to have to cut up fenders. Low lift is the way to go in my opinion.

TOYOTA 1 · 11-04-2009, 09:50 PM

wouldn't raising the trans increase the angle of the d shafts?

turboboost · 11-04-2009, 09:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TOYOTA 1

wouldn't raising the trans increase the angle of the d shafts?

Yes, but not as much as say a 6" suspension lift.

TOYOTA 1 · 11-04-2009, 10:06 PM

lol.. thanks for clearing that up there turbo.

kinzer · 11-04-2009, 10:10 PM

i have the trail gear 5" kit, the largest tg makes and i rub 37's so if your going to try an clear 40's your ganna have to do some custom body work.

turboboost · 11-04-2009, 10:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TOYOTA 1

lol.. thanks for clearing that up there turbo.

You being facetious?

ATVTRAILRIDER · 11-05-2009, 06:52 AM

Kinzer - I have no problem trimming back body parts to avoid rubbing.

93yotarunner - the body lift seems to go against the low lift, your still raising your center of gravity? 51" springs, are those off the rear of 86 to 95's?

1993YotaRunner · 11-05-2009, 08:44 AM

I ment to say it will help with rock clearence by doing a tummy tuck. Obviosly any up ward movement of the tranny will increase the angle. Unemployment is killing my brain. But helping out on my projects.

Anyway, I am planing on some 38's or 39's. Definetly alot of bodywork. Pretty much thrashing the front fenders, cutting the rears. LET THE FUN BEGIN! hahahaha

1993YotaRunner · 11-05-2009, 08:52 AM

Think about this, with low lift you will have less clearence overall, By this i mean body and under your truck, not axles.

So by doing a tummy tuck and tucking it up with only 1.5 inches of body lift you will raise your tranny and important transfer case up higher out of the way, also puts it up closer to the frame, Easy to make new custom crossmember for added protection as well.

You do have the option of cutting out the tranny tunnel and doing a tummy tuck, that way is the long and better way of doing it. I will go that venture if i decide i feel to top heavy. Which i dont think a 1.5 inch difference will do that, specially since i am bringing the weight upwards with the lift. And specially running 37" tires plus.

ATVTRAILRIDER · 11-05-2009, 09:49 AM

1993yotarunner - ok, understand, are you just going to raise the tranny transfer case? no changes to the engine?

I may look at this also but I would probaly cut out the tunnell in the cab if needed rather than raising the whole body.

**waskillywabbit** · 11-05-2009, 10:19 AM

You have a LOT of research to do.

Front spring hanger is easier to weld on one dropped than rip out the whole front core and fab a new one.

Axle moves 1.5 to 2" forward.

35s are the largest you can wheel without tubbing the firewall and trimming fenders.

Suspension lifts raise the COG more than a body lift. Simple physics.

A properly done SAS will drive/ride better than a worn out IFS and much better than a worn out SFA OEM suspension.

You got lots of work in front of you. Read the Pirate Toy FAQ then come back with questions.

camo31"10.50" · 11-05-2009, 11:00 AM

i sayyy..first..ditch you're toyota body...get A LOT of tubing..and go crazy with it..then get whatever axles and whatever springs you want..then you can run whatever size you want...nobody to have to worry about..LOL!!!!

but seriously, the chances of you being able to run 4D's on a suspension lift less than about 5" is very slim....let alone flex good enough to make it useful.....with say a 2"-3" custom SAS...the biggest tire you'll be able to run...and flex good enough, would probably be like a 35...maybe a skinny 37..no matter how much you trim and tub..you won't be able to run 37's without dovetailing the rear and doing the same to the front..even then you'll be havin loads of rubbage..lol..

not really trying to discourage you...maybe just givin ya a different point of view...either way GET SOME PICS UP DUDE!!!! hahaha

ATVTRAILRIDER · 11-05-2009, 12:09 PM

WASKILLYWABBIT - I have been reading the faqs but sill searching for clear information. Yea your right, you would be raising your COG more with the suspension lift since your also raising the frame.

Is there info on ripping out the front core and fabbing? Any pictures? Anybody done it this way? I know it is easier to just weld the brackets and hangers on the bottom but I plan on playing with this for a little while so if I can make it work better that way then ....

94sasyota · 11-05-2009, 01:03 PM

start reading alot lol and do not i mean do not ask this question on pirate 4x4. You will end up

good luck

tc · 11-05-2009, 02:49 PM

IMHO, the current trend for minimum COG height has gone too far. Let's face it - with 40's under a Toyota, the tires themselves are going to weigh enough to keep your COG manageable.

Keeping the truck low will result in less compression travel, and once you hit the compression bumpstop, that side of the truck is going up - no way around it. So, while you've kept your COG low, you have put yourself in more tippy situations.

In the current grail-quest for subterranean COG, people are even sacrificing the strength benefits of high steer, which is stupid. Kinda hard to get off the trail with the tires pointing at each other.

As mentioned above, you have a TON of research to do, and I would recommend you wheel the piss out of the IFS in the mean time. Things to consider:
- Wheelbase/front axle location - as mentioned above, tubbing the firewall may be required
- IMHO, a link setup is easier to keep lower and about the same amount of fab work. Certainly easier to move the axle forward with links
- oil pan clearances to go with the axle location
- kind and width of axle - 37 is borderline for hard 'wheeling with a Toyota axle, 40 is kinda asking for trouble unless axle is heavily modded

...and I'm sure there's SO much more.

Generally, when I see these kinds of posts I believe the person hasn't 'wheeled their truck enough to know what they really want/need. I would suggest that a large part of your research is to get out 'wheeling with a group and seeing how other people around you have done it and what works for 'wheeling in your neck of the woods.

TOYOTA 1 · 11-05-2009, 07:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by turboboost

You being facetious?

nope...

11-05-2009, 08:44 AM	#9 (permalink)
1993YotaRunner Registered User Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Tri-Cities WA Posts: 29	I ment to say it will help with rock clearence by doing a tummy tuck. Obviosly any up ward movement of the tranny will increase the angle. Unemployment is killing my brain. But helping out on my projects. Anyway, I am planing on some 38's or 39's. Definetly alot of bodywork. Pretty much thrashing the front fenders, cutting the rears. LET THE FUN BEGIN! hahahaha Last edited by 1993YotaRunner; 11-05-2009 at 09:50 AM.

11-05-2009, 10:19 AM	#12 (permalink)
waskillywabbit Super Moderator-Sponsoring Member Staff Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Tuscaloosa, AL Posts: 14,554	You have a LOT of research to do. Front spring hanger is easier to weld on one dropped than rip out the whole front core and fab a new one. Axle moves 1.5 to 2" forward. 35s are the largest you can wheel without tubbing the firewall and trimming fenders. Suspension lifts raise the COG more than a body lift. Simple physics. A properly done SAS will drive/ride better than a worn out IFS and much better than a worn out SFA OEM suspension. You got lots of work in front of you. Read the Pirate Toy FAQ then come back with questions. __________________ WabFab Off-Road, LLC MySpace Twitter Facebook 7th Annual South East 4Runner Jamboree, 2010 The toughest part of a Jeep is the chick driving it. WabFab Off-Road 4th Anniversary Sale

11-05-2009, 11:00 AM	#13 (permalink)
camo31"10.50" Registered User Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Vian, OK Posts: 2,082	i sayyy..first..ditch you're toyota body...get A LOT of tubing..and go crazy with it..then get whatever axles and whatever springs you want..then you can run whatever size you want...nobody to have to worry about..LOL!!!! but seriously, the chances of you being able to run 4D's on a suspension lift less than about 5" is very slim....let alone flex good enough to make it useful.....with say a 2"-3" custom SAS...the biggest tire you'll be able to run...and flex good enough, would probably be like a 35...maybe a skinny 37..no matter how much you trim and tub..you won't be able to run 37's without dovetailing the rear and doing the same to the front..even then you'll be havin loads of rubbage..lol.. not really trying to discourage you...maybe just givin ya a different point of view...either way GET SOME PICS UP DUDE!!!! hahaha __________________ FOR SALE 1986 Ext. Cab 4x4, rebuilt 22R, 5spd, 31x10.50 X-Terrains FOR SALE 1992 SR5 FO RUNNA V6, 5 speed, 4in. trail-master lift, 33x12.50 BFG muds, 4.56 gears!!! and an IMMACULATE interior..yes..you should be jealous "Its still a toyota man.. Dont deprive it of its capabilities.." "If you can read english, Thank a teacher...If you can speak it, Thank a soldier!!" Kelli Ruark-2009

11-05-2009, 01:03 PM	#15 (permalink)
94sasyota Registered User Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: denver NC Posts: 80	start reading alot lol and do not i mean do not ask this question on pirate 4x4. You will end up good luck __________________ 85 4runner tan, spooled rear 35's KM2 s chevy 63" TG skid plate,3in trailgear springs,12in 5125's,high steer,v6 brake upgrade and 1in master.TG high steer

11-05-2009, 02:49 PM	#16 (permalink)
tc Contributing Member Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Longmont, CO Posts: 8,376	IMHO, the current trend for minimum COG height has gone too far. Let's face it - with 40's under a Toyota, the tires themselves are going to weigh enough to keep your COG manageable. Keeping the truck low will result in less compression travel, and once you hit the compression bumpstop, that side of the truck is going up - no way around it. So, while you've kept your COG low, you have put yourself in more tippy situations. In the current grail-quest for subterranean COG, people are even sacrificing the strength benefits of high steer, which is stupid. Kinda hard to get off the trail with the tires pointing at each other. As mentioned above, you have a TON of research to do, and I would recommend you wheel the piss out of the IFS in the mean time. Things to consider: - Wheelbase/front axle location - as mentioned above, tubbing the firewall may be required - IMHO, a link setup is easier to keep lower and about the same amount of fab work. Certainly easier to move the axle forward with links - oil pan clearances to go with the axle location - kind and width of axle - 37 is borderline for hard 'wheeling with a Toyota axle, 40 is kinda asking for trouble unless axle is heavily modded ...and I'm sure there's SO much more. Generally, when I see these kinds of posts I believe the person hasn't 'wheeled their truck enough to know what they really want/need. I would suggest that a large part of your research is to get out 'wheeling with a group and seeing how other people around you have done it and what works for 'wheeling in your neck of the woods. __________________ Check out www.coTTORA.org to hook up with great Toyota 'wheelin' folks! Current - 93 4Runner: 3VZ 33"x10.50" no lift ARB F/R 96 Impala SS: My own personal cop car Previous - 89 2WD Pickup 22R, Fabtech "Ivan Dan" lift, 31x10.50, IASCA World Finals 4th Place Stop with the mods and get on the trail! Pix at www.4wheelingoh.shutterfly.com/action

11-04-2009, 09:47 PM	#2 (permalink)
1993YotaRunner Registered User Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Tri-Cities WA Posts: 29	I am just starting my SAS. Plan on doing as low of lift as possible. I am doing the 51 inch rear leafs up front, and 63 inch chevy's out back. That combination will give you great flex and articulation. As far as up travel, i am pretty sure you will have enough. The 51 inch RUF will max out a 14 inch shock. With low lift i am going to do 1.5 inch body lift to do a slight tummy tuck on the transmission. Helps with the driveshaft angle and with clearence for rocks.. brush.... ect. Definently going to have to cut up fenders. Low lift is the way to go in my opinion.

11-05-2009, 06:52 AM	#8 (permalink)
ATVTRAILRIDER Registered User Join Date: Apr 2009 Posts: 9	Kinzer - I have no problem trimming back body parts to avoid rubbing. 93yotarunner - the body lift seems to go against the low lift, your still raising your center of gravity? 51" springs, are those off the rear of 86 to 95's?

11-05-2009, 08:52 AM	#10 (permalink)
1993YotaRunner Registered User Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Tri-Cities WA Posts: 29	Think about this, with low lift you will have less clearence overall, By this i mean body and under your truck, not axles. So by doing a tummy tuck and tucking it up with only 1.5 inches of body lift you will raise your tranny and important transfer case up higher out of the way, also puts it up closer to the frame, Easy to make new custom crossmember for added protection as well. You do have the option of cutting out the tranny tunnel and doing a tummy tuck, that way is the long and better way of doing it. I will go that venture if i decide i feel to top heavy. Which i dont think a 1.5 inch difference will do that, specially since i am bringing the weight upwards with the lift. And specially running 37" tires plus.

11-05-2009, 09:49 AM	#11 (permalink)
ATVTRAILRIDER Registered User Join Date: Apr 2009 Posts: 9	1993yotarunner - ok, understand, are you just going to raise the tranny transfer case? no changes to the engine? I may look at this also but I would probaly cut out the tunnell in the cab if needed rather than raising the whole body.

11-05-2009, 12:09 PM	#14 (permalink)
ATVTRAILRIDER Registered User Join Date: Apr 2009 Posts: 9	WASKILLYWABBIT - I have been reading the faqs but sill searching for clear information. Yea your right, you would be raising your COG more with the suspension lift since your also raising the frame. Is there info on ripping out the front core and fabbing? Any pictures? Anybody done it this way? I know it is easier to just weld the brackets and hangers on the bottom but I plan on playing with this for a little while so if I can make it work better that way then ....

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