22RE head gasket HELP :(

WishOne · 11-05-2009, 05:30 PM

First a little bit of history/book on my truck.
This was my daily driver to and from school after my 240sx took a .
Bought the truck from my neighbor, with around 76,xxx miles on it.
Around 87,xxx some freak accident happened and my timing chain broke @ 40mph in normal driving conditions.
My moms current(now wack job) mechanic at the time examined everything and replaced my timing chain/guides.
He started the car and could not get it to run right, it misfired in cylinder 3 IRC, the culprit was a bent valve.
The head was removed and valves were redone and im pretty sure he had the head decked/resurfaced.

Some time passed and I began to notice a small oil leak from what seemed to be the front cover. So I called him
and explained and he sais "oh i already know what it is, its a $100 part(the timing cover) i can replace it for you."
Im thinking, why didnt he tell me when it was all apart... anyway,
I said screw it, I didnt have the funds at the moment and just kept driving the truck and topping off the oil every so often. By this time my nissan was up and running and i could drive that as my daily while my girlfriend drove my truck, because she was in an accident and her car was totalled.

She calls one day and says the truck is smoking, so imediately I panic, I told her to check all the vitals(oil, coolant, etc) and gave her instructions over the phone. So it turns out the truck was overheating. By the time she filled it with more coolant and it ran again fine but after a few minutes of driving white smoke would come out of the exhaust like i was doing a brake stand and it would misfire.

So I let my poor little truck sit for a good while, around 6 months.
Finally one day i decided to fix it myself, I took it all apart, took the head off sent it to machine shop and had it decked, for what is now the second time if i am correct. The guy at the machine shop recommended a thicker headgasket, he feared the compression may be higher than normal with an OEM spec gasket. So i didnt listen to him, and went head and put everything together.
So upon assembly I noticed the front cover that the dirt bag mechanic broke when he removed my head, and I remembered reading a section in a DIY headgasket article that forewarned of the "hidden bolt" and I said to myself "this Hack-ass-mechanic was probably prying on my head and broke my timing cover because he forgot the "secret bolt". So i inspected it carefully and sure enough there's JB weld on the cover where he broke it. By then it was too late and the head was already on.
the Hidden bolt did not go on as tight I would have liked.. but assembly continued. Fired up the motor and it ran ok for a few moments and then I noticed some water coming from the exhaust port out of cylinder 4, the cylinder closest to the timing cover. at first I thought ok maybe some condensation in exhaust and the exhaust manifold gasket isnt sealed properly or the head studs arent tight enough???
I took off the VC retorqued to spec and started it again. It kept leaking but now there is also a small leak on the same cylinder(runner) on the intake manifold side.

I did a little bit of looking around and found that some have had some issues with water mixing with oil because of bad Timing covers.
Now my question is would my bad timing cover cause the closest cylinder to it fill with water???
That seems weird to me, unless one of the coolant jackets nearby was damaged?
leaking with a brand new headgasket?
maybe the head is shot?
Warped block?

any help is be very much appreciated.

Thanks,
Mike

This ad is not displayed to registered members.
Register your free account today and become a member on Yotatech!

brian2sun · 11-05-2009, 06:16 PM

I would threaten to take that hack to court. I would have an attorney write him a letter if he doesn't own up to the damage he caused. If he's a real shop, you will probably win. If he's an under the table kind of guy, you might still win - doubtful, but still worth a try.

It sounds like all the problems you are having now were caused by him and his ignorance.

BLKNBLU · 11-05-2009, 07:12 PM

OK. Where to start.
Brian is right that your problems are probably due to the previous guy reinstalling your broken TC cover. The big if there is whether its worth the trouble to go after him.

Lets clarify, the cylinder closest to the TC cover is #1 and they run 1234 front to rear. If your TC cover is chewed up inside and allowing the oil and coolant to mix you probably wouldn't see it leaking on the exterior of the engine. Certainly not at the #1 cylinder. More likely, the defect in your TC cover where that guy made the half baked repair is preventing you from getting an adequate seal/clamping effect at the front of the cylinder head/block/TC cover junction and allowing leakage. You also have some responsibility for not installing the right gasket last time thereby increasing the pressure in your cylinders and putting more stress on all aspects of the head. Sadly that might be all the other guy needs to get out of his part in this. Also, when you noticed the leaking this time around did you continue to run the engine or stop right there?

Assuming you haven't overheated again, I imagine your head is fine. If you can have the truck down for a while here is what I would do...

Order a new TC cover (it's established that your current one is toast) and headgasket kit. Pull the head and TC cover. Inspect the stuff under the TC cover (i.e. oil pump, timing chain and tensioner, guides) If you have any questions about the parts you inspect, get new ones and install. If it all looks good, reassemble with the new TC cover. Get the right thickness of headgasket or a shim.

I don't know much about the shims as most rebuilds on here haven't required them, but if you machine off enough of the head you have to return the whole assembly to stock specs (as your machine shop guy recommended) Hopefully you still have the info on how thick a shim/spacer you need. Check the rebuild thread by olharleyman. He had to put one in and probably can give you some advice.

OK. I'm getting to where I can't remember what I have and haven't already written. Chew on that for a while and come back with any Qs. Good luck.

WishOne · 11-06-2009, 03:25 PM

Thanks so much for your help guys!
I did not continue to run the truck more than lets say... 2 minutes not under load at idle in my garage.
I could order a new timing cover, and new gasket kit and redo the whole job. which isnt a big deal since I have a daily driver.
it just sort of leaves me wondering why its coming out of both ends (intake and exhaust) on cylinder 1.
and why now if it has always been cracked and ran for a good while. Maybe original cause of HG failure and finally its the TC is toast.
I am beginning to think maybe from the girlfriend overheating damage there is chance the block warped.

As far as the mechanic is concerned, I have no way of contacting him, he moved locations about an hour away from where I live in Irvine, to the inland empire. Lucky for him I guess.

Second option is to have the long block replaced, if it is shot, I found a reputable place that will charge me 600 for core and around 600 for the install, assuming that my core is good, otherwise the total price will increase. I drop it off with my AAA and come back a week later, and have a running truck witha year warranty.

Or I can sit on it for a while let the truck take up the space in garage, which my roommate isnt too happy about lol (technically my side of the 2 car garage) and do the motor install over a couple weekends myself and save some cash.. but honestly after all the money ive already spent, it may be wiser and less of a headache to dish out a couple hundred extra and have some peace of mind.
or save money and start 1jz project.... LOL only kidding. Anyway thanks for the help, Ill think about it and see what happens.
I can always try to haggle my parents into sending me some money, maybe split the cost in half.... if im lucky. probably wont happen though

BLKNBLU · 11-06-2009, 04:34 PM

I doubt your junk is warped. If you didn't overheat the head after the rebuild it should be fine. Usually the head is the first to go. The block is cast iron and huge in comparison to the head so, while possible, warpage is unlikely without extreme abuse. You would have the head off anyway so it would be easy enough to have that rechecked, and you can run a straight edge over the block. (not perfect but better than nothing) I'm still betting on the poor clamping effect of that broken TC cover. Look at this:

Borrowed this from 92 Toy's thread. You have good bolts at the red arrows but a poor clamping effect at the green arrow. I can't say for sure but that may effect the integrity of the whole shebang enough to cause failure. The yellow squiggly line is where my head gasket failed (though on the other/exhaust side... it was just easier to draw it on the intake side for this illustration) even though my bolts were all intact. I just think it's quite possible that having that area inadequately secured could have allowed leakage on both sides of the head.

Also just thought of this... did you put sealant at the 2 spots up front where the HG covers the head/block/TC cover junction last time you reassembled?

92 TOY · 11-06-2009, 04:53 PM

Hey thanks for the mention, I thought that picture looked familiar.

Jumping in, in the middle here, but that "hidden bolt" in the middle is also what I've read is the culprit when replacing the timing cover without removing the head. I've read plenty that have done it without problems but those that had problems was due to disrupting the seal of the gasket and/or not getting a proper seal at the front of the gasket over the timing cover.

92 TOY · 11-06-2009, 04:56 PM

PS.....that's not coolant you see there on my block, it's watery oil......was not running coolant at all, just water and THERMAGASKET.

WishOne · 11-09-2009, 08:28 AM

im going to take it all apart, again.... however I spoke with my father and was able to talk him into lending me the $600 for a new longblock, just in case mine is toast.
Once again, I really appreciate all the the help.

11-05-2009, 06:16 PM	#2 (permalink)
brian2sun Registered User Join Date: May 2009 Location: The Mtns, CA Posts: 502	I would threaten to take that hack to court. I would have an attorney write him a letter if he doesn't own up to the damage he caused. If he's a real shop, you will probably win. If he's an under the table kind of guy, you might still win - doubtful, but still worth a try. It sounds like all the problems you are having now were caused by him and his ignorance. __________________ 97 4Runner SR5 3.4L 4x4 305/70R16 Mastercraft M/Ts on black stock 6 spokes 2.5" suspension lift ARB Bullbar ARB rear locker 4.88s Factory wood grain dash My 4th Toyota truck "If guns kill people, then pens write novels."

11-05-2009, 07:12 PM	#3 (permalink)
BLKNBLU Registered User Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Gilbert, Arizona Posts: 1,667	OK. Where to start. Brian is right that your problems are probably due to the previous guy reinstalling your broken TC cover. The big if there is whether its worth the trouble to go after him. Lets clarify, the cylinder closest to the TC cover is #1 and they run 1234 front to rear. If your TC cover is chewed up inside and allowing the oil and coolant to mix you probably wouldn't see it leaking on the exterior of the engine. Certainly not at the #1 cylinder. More likely, the defect in your TC cover where that guy made the half baked repair is preventing you from getting an adequate seal/clamping effect at the front of the cylinder head/block/TC cover junction and allowing leakage. You also have some responsibility for not installing the right gasket last time thereby increasing the pressure in your cylinders and putting more stress on all aspects of the head. Sadly that might be all the other guy needs to get out of his part in this. Also, when you noticed the leaking this time around did you continue to run the engine or stop right there? Assuming you haven't overheated again, I imagine your head is fine. If you can have the truck down for a while here is what I would do... Order a new TC cover (it's established that your current one is toast) and headgasket kit. Pull the head and TC cover. Inspect the stuff under the TC cover (i.e. oil pump, timing chain and tensioner, guides) If you have any questions about the parts you inspect, get new ones and install. If it all looks good, reassemble with the new TC cover. Get the right thickness of headgasket or a shim. I don't know much about the shims as most rebuilds on here haven't required them, but if you machine off enough of the head you have to return the whole assembly to stock specs (as your machine shop guy recommended) Hopefully you still have the info on how thick a shim/spacer you need. Check the rebuild thread by olharleyman. He had to put one in and probably can give you some advice. OK. I'm getting to where I can't remember what I have and haven't already written. Chew on that for a while and come back with any Qs. Good luck. __________________ 86 4Runner, custom Sonoran Steel rear bumper, 4Crawler 1" body lift, rock sliders from Richard Stubbs, rear Lockright, SAS w/ARB My build thread. http://www.yotatech.com/f66/blknblu-s-sac-155872/

11-06-2009, 03:25 PM	#4 (permalink)
WishOne Registered User Join Date: Jan 2009 Posts: 10	Thanks so much for your help guys! I did not continue to run the truck more than lets say... 2 minutes not under load at idle in my garage. I could order a new timing cover, and new gasket kit and redo the whole job. which isnt a big deal since I have a daily driver. it just sort of leaves me wondering why its coming out of both ends (intake and exhaust) on cylinder 1. and why now if it has always been cracked and ran for a good while. Maybe original cause of HG failure and finally its the TC is toast. I am beginning to think maybe from the girlfriend overheating damage there is chance the block warped. As far as the mechanic is concerned, I have no way of contacting him, he moved locations about an hour away from where I live in Irvine, to the inland empire. Lucky for him I guess. Second option is to have the long block replaced, if it is shot, I found a reputable place that will charge me 600 for core and around 600 for the install, assuming that my core is good, otherwise the total price will increase. I drop it off with my AAA and come back a week later, and have a running truck witha year warranty. Or I can sit on it for a while let the truck take up the space in garage, which my roommate isnt too happy about lol (technically my side of the 2 car garage) and do the motor install over a couple weekends myself and save some cash.. but honestly after all the money ive already spent, it may be wiser and less of a headache to dish out a couple hundred extra and have some peace of mind. or save money and start 1jz project.... LOL only kidding. Anyway thanks for the help, Ill think about it and see what happens. I can always try to haggle my parents into sending me some money, maybe split the cost in half.... if im lucky. probably wont happen though Last edited by WishOne; 11-06-2009 at 03:27 PM.

11-06-2009, 04:34 PM	#5 (permalink)
BLKNBLU Registered User Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Gilbert, Arizona Posts: 1,667	I doubt your junk is warped. If you didn't overheat the head after the rebuild it should be fine. Usually the head is the first to go. The block is cast iron and huge in comparison to the head so, while possible, warpage is unlikely without extreme abuse. You would have the head off anyway so it would be easy enough to have that rechecked, and you can run a straight edge over the block. (not perfect but better than nothing) I'm still betting on the poor clamping effect of that broken TC cover. Look at this: Borrowed this from 92 Toy's thread. You have good bolts at the red arrows but a poor clamping effect at the green arrow. I can't say for sure but that may effect the integrity of the whole shebang enough to cause failure. The yellow squiggly line is where my head gasket failed (though on the other/exhaust side... it was just easier to draw it on the intake side for this illustration) even though my bolts were all intact. I just think it's quite possible that having that area inadequately secured could have allowed leakage on both sides of the head. Also just thought of this... did you put sealant at the 2 spots up front where the HG covers the head/block/TC cover junction last time you reassembled? __________________ 86 4Runner, custom Sonoran Steel rear bumper, 4Crawler 1" body lift, rock sliders from Richard Stubbs, rear Lockright, SAS w/ARB My build thread. http://www.yotatech.com/f66/blknblu-s-sac-155872/

11-06-2009, 04:53 PM	#6 (permalink)
92 TOY Registered User Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: Northeast Pennsylvania Posts: 1,083	Hey thanks for the mention, I thought that picture looked familiar. Jumping in, in the middle here, but that "hidden bolt" in the middle is also what I've read is the culprit when replacing the timing cover without removing the head. I've read plenty that have done it without problems but those that had problems was due to disrupting the seal of the gasket and/or not getting a proper seal at the front of the gasket over the timing cover. __________________ 1992 4x4 shortbed /22re/auto/192,000 miles--original owner(rebuild in process) 1988 SR5 4runner /V6/5 speed/248,000 miles/bought April 2009/*UNDER CONSTRUCTION* 2006 SR5 4runner (the wife's)....still being paid for... >>>>Check out My SLOOOOOOW Re-build Thread<<<< http://www.yotatech.com/f116/92-toy-...-start-188472/

11-06-2009, 04:56 PM	#7 (permalink)
92 TOY Registered User Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: Northeast Pennsylvania Posts: 1,083	PS.....that's not coolant you see there on my block, it's watery oil......was not running coolant at all, just water and THERMAGASKET. __________________ 1992 4x4 shortbed /22re/auto/192,000 miles--original owner(rebuild in process) 1988 SR5 4runner /V6/5 speed/248,000 miles/bought April 2009/*UNDER CONSTRUCTION* 2006 SR5 4runner (the wife's)....still being paid for... >>>>Check out My SLOOOOOOW Re-build Thread<<<< http://www.yotatech.com/f116/92-toy-...-start-188472/

11-09-2009, 08:28 AM	#8 (permalink)
WishOne Registered User Join Date: Jan 2009 Posts: 10	im going to take it all apart, again.... however I spoke with my father and was able to talk him into lending me the $600 for a new longblock, just in case mine is toast. Once again, I really appreciate all the the help.

Thread Tools	Search this Thread
Show Printable Version Email this Page	Search this Thread: Advanced Search